In New York,defiant Ahmadeninejad says, Israel will be eliminated

reply to post by Maxmars

Not meaning to be confrontational, but... have you read what you're writing?

Don't worry, I can see the difference between veracity.

This is a quintessential mechanism of bias.

How is it that you know what anyone says behind closed doors, and between themselves? Are you eavesdropping on them? When did you survey Arab Muslims do be able to make this assertion that they are totally hateful when it comes to race and religion?

It helps a lot when those people mistake you for one of their own. There's one thing they like more than speaking ill of the Jews and that is speaking ill of the Jews to a listening ear ;-) In fact, I had one of them - a Turkish Muslim - claim that all of the worlds problems were Jewish in cause(the idiot). Plus, how about having friends within these groups that are open about what goes on privately?(because they too are sick and tired)

Can I say you're wrong? No.... because you are making statements that only a participant in the chatter could make. And of course, that would presume you have spoken to all (or at least the majority) of Arab Muslims.

You can say that I'm a liar and get on with your life. Anyone can do that. Just don't claim otherwise without having proof, while you know that you don't have any idea what you're talking about. That's all.

What I do know is that I cannot easily accept you're position as factual - because no such people have ever existed. Even in the worst most brutal conflicts between nations or cultures there are always copious examples of those who do not belong to the hate parade. There are always those who know that man is man, and every way conceived to separate them is but a contrivance of the mind. Sort of like lines on a map.... they only matter to those who seek to divide and separate.

Ah but I'm not claiming everyone of them is like that, in fact, I'm admitting that there are many in-fights to break free. They are just humans like you and me, living under a system of Islamic law. Under a system that has a kind of social hierarchy going, that prevents people from leaving. It is a system of chains. Much like how Catholicism used to be in the days they killed unbelievers and drowned "witches". Would you argue against the people who revolted against Catholicism back in the day? Saying how: "All catholics are not the same." while the noose is tightened around your neck? Of course they are not all the same. The point is; they can be forced to be the same through social pressure.

I know it is not easy to accept, all I'm saying is, if you're looking for the truth, then there it is.

You know that this is exactly what is said about Americans (and almost every other "category" of "people") in other contexts?... and I always remind people that one person's opinion is their own, not that of whatever grouping you have decided to assign them to.

No, no, no. You're not understanding this. Americans are by definition freedom lovers. Islamism is by definition freedom hating. Americans are a diverse people with all kinds of religions, they are not a religion. Furthermore, anyone can go to the US and become an American and demand the rights an American has. Can anyone go to Saudi Arabia and become Saudi Arabian?

I cannot understand your passion to reduce the category of Arab Muslim to some Nazi-esque level of hatred....

The passion is there because they teach their kids to hate from a very early age. Anyone that's not a Muslim is an enemy trying to take them from the Muslim path. This is what is taught from parent to child.

To hate "the jew".

This has translated into all kinds of "zionist-conspiracy theories", which by FAR, are nothing more than incorrect, irrelevant banter that can be described to belong to the realm of paranoid schizophrenics. And it's not just the Arabic Muslims, thick-skull Iranian Muslims are the same if not worse! And the ones who aren't all that into hating without reason - they try to get away from Islam. Hundreds of thousands of people from different countries EVERY year escape Islamic oppression.

I hope I have not inflamed your outrage, because this is not meant to be a righteous post; only a heartfelt difference of opinion.

I'm not as bad as you think. Maybe smarter than you think. But not as bad, or angry or impatient.

Later, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu outlined the plan that he was sure Iran would utilize in their bid to destroy Israel.



Everyone agrees that the coyote, er Iran, is a threat to Israel.

Here are some Jews who seem very very happy with Mr Ahmadeninejad.

www.youtube.com...

They clearly do not like Zionists...You know those who joined together with the German nationalists to create the NAZI party.
gravitor

reply to post by gravitational


But you can't possibly mean that the speaker speaks for each and every individual in the group, can you?

And that was hardly behind closed doors, or in any way meant to be "a secret."

Politicians and diplomats all play this game for the benefit of those who rather someone else do the thinking for them. Also, what people like this say for media productions is hardly a good measure of what they think... only what they believe they have to say to get what they want. Not everyone is like that.

Originally posted by TheComte

When I see this, and other pictures of Mr. Netanyahu at the UN, showing some imbecile drawings to the world, I really wish someone would pinch me. How come my own sovereign life needs to hinge on this clown's doodle's? I don't give a flying toss what his clique of hard-core Zionists are thinking. I'm an American. If any of you people reading this really believe that we are citizens of a sovereign country and not slaves of some weird Netanyahu guy, give me a star. And let's start fixing our country before we create a Jewish paradise in the Middle East. If and when we have time and energy, we might give a passing thought to Israel. Until then, American jobs, American kids and American future take priority. And I'm willing to die for my country -- but not for Netanyahi. Screw him.

reply to post by Maxmars

“But you can't possibly mean that the speaker speaks for each and every individual in the group, can you?”

By nature, If they are a 'GROUP' than they are in that state because of mutual interests.
The funny thing is, Hamas the PLO and other fanatic Muslim organizations have never hidden their true intentions, especially in the middle east and regarding Israel.
Go through Hamas and PLO's charters and the 'Three stage plan' of the PLO and you will find this speaker completely corroborate those plans.
So again, they never really tried to hide their plans, it's just that so many people (which are well represented on ATS) chose to ignore it, or they simply hate Israel so they disguise it and spread the lies.

It's the same people who are shown Ahmadinejad's speeches, in which he calls “death to America Death to Israel” but insist this person is the good guy. It's sickening.

Mister Netanyahu loves cartoons ?
then so be it !

ATS CARTOONS TIME

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by Maxmars

 

“But you can't possibly mean that the speaker speaks for each and every individual in the group, can you?”

By nature, If they are a 'GROUP' than they are in that state because of mutual interests.
The funny thing is, Hamas the PLO and other fanatic Muslim organizations have never hidden their true intentions, especially in the middle east and regarding Israel.
Go through Hamas and PLO's charters and the 'Three stage plan' of the PLO and you will find this speaker completely corroborate those plans.
So again, they never really tried to hide their plans, it's just that so many people (which are well represented on ATS) chose to ignore it, or they simply hate Israel so they disguise it and spread the lies.

It's the same people who are shown Ahmadinejad's speeches, in which he calls “death to America Death to Israel” but insist this person is the good guy. It's sickening.

Meanwhile, it is not at all hypocritical to call for the elimination of Iran (which is how this usually works).

Einstein once pointed out that it is no different than racism to believe that your nation is superior to another. Keeping this in mind, it would seem relevant to try to understand the background of the notions that the Middle East has. In so doing, you too might want to see the "death" of America...or at least its government.

And, since you are part of that "group", you obviously support EVERYTHING that our government does and says, right?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

“Meanwhile, it is not at all hypocritical to call for the elimination of Iran (which is how this usually works). “

Calling Iran to stop its nuclear program is NOT a call for Iran's elimination.
Making a threat to destroy their uranium enrichment facilities is NOT a call for Iran's destruction.

“Einstein once pointed out that it is no different than racism to believe that your nation is superior to another. Keeping this in mind, it would seem relevant to try to understand the background of the notions that the Middle East has. In so doing, you too might want to see the "death" of America...or at least its government.”

I'm a patriot. I believe in democracy. If your idea of fixing the wrong doings of your government is by calling 'death to____(fill in the blank), than you're more than welcome to pack up your bags, go live in Iran and join the shouting crowd.

“And, since you are part of that "group", you obviously support EVERYTHING that our government does and says, right?”

Never have I said such a thing, so I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth.

Originally posted by gravitational
I'm a patriot. I believe in democracy.

But we live in a Republic, remember?

If your idea of fixing the wrong doings of your government is by calling 'death to____(fill in the blank), than you're more than welcome to pack up your bags, go live in Iran and join the shouting crowd.

Whoa, that's some grandstanding.

We didn't have rallies after 9/11, proclaiming a bloodthirsty plan to destroy nation XYZ. There were occasional statements regarding "ragheads" and an Indian-born American was killed for wearing a turban (how dumb is that?). But what really transpired regarding the invasion of Iraq was not different from calling 'death to ____' in the sense that it was really idiotic. And the American public supported this. I'm not sure what's worse, a rally where people can go, vent and get their rocks off by shouting some stupid slogan, or an actual war that got a lot of people killed. There aren't rallies in Israel calling for killing Arabs. Instead, Israel quietly occupies their land and makes them quite miserable. Clever, innit? Look mah, no rallies.

And of course, BFFT never called for any nation to be destroyed. So what you did here is kind of an angry red herring thing... Duh.

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

“Meanwhile, it is not at all hypocritical to call for the elimination of Iran (which is how this usually works). “

Calling Iran to stop its nuclear program is NOT a call for Iran's elimination.
Making a threat to destroy their uranium enrichment facilities is NOT a call for Iran's destruction.

Do I really need to waste my Sunday afternoon finding links of other "patriots" like yourself calling for the destruction of Iran, and many other nations? I seem to recall the orgy of civilian casualties otherwise konwn as "Shock and Awe" in 2003. Every explosion brought cheers of exhuberance from a nation of sheeple glued to their idiot boxes.

So lets just cut to the chase and be honest here.

“Einstein once pointed out that it is no different than racism to believe that your nation is superior to another. Keeping this in mind, it would seem relevant to try to understand the background of the notions that the Middle East has. In so doing, you too might want to see the "death" of America...or at least its government.”

I'm a patriot. I believe in democracy. If your idea of fixing the wrong doings of your government is by calling 'death to____(fill in the blank), than you're more than welcome to pack up your bags, go live in Iran and join the shouting crowd.


That's funny. I, too, am a Patriot. But I don't recognize your brand of patriotism. Foremost, I abhor a democracy as it does not protect the rights of the individual. I prefer the constitutional republic we live in....but want it restored to the honor intended it. I often wonder if we are too far gone for that.

But I would gladly pack my bags and move to any other nation on earth that had the true American brand of liberty. As stated by Franklin: "Where there is liberty, there is my nation".

Regardless, I doubt you are truly a patriot. You may believe you are But if your answer to someone you disagree with is to have them leave your country, you might be among the most unpatriotic people I have ever had discourse with on this forum.

“And, since you are part of that "group", you obviously support EVERYTHING that our government does and says, right?”

Never have I said such a thing, so I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth.

They are your words. From an earlier post of yours:

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by Maxmars

 

“But you can't possibly mean that the speaker speaks for each and every individual in the group, can you?”

By nature, If they are a 'GROUP' than they are in that state because of mutual interests.

There isn't room in your mouth for any more words.

reply to post by buddhasystem

I'm an American. If any of you people reading this really believe that we are citizens of a sovereign country and not slaves of some weird Netanyahu guy, give me a star

I think you're missing the point.

Netanyahu from the beginning of his speech emphasized the problem of radical Islam. He does this to point out - something being resisted by many, but to their own peril - that their opposition towards Israel is surpassed only by their opposition to western culture and society.

Islamism is an extremely serious menace facing the west, whether in the form of the radical Shi'ism in Iran or that of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

Whether you realize it or not, a caliphate is being built by the Sunni Muslims; and both sides - Shia and Sunni, appear intent on destabilizing the world.