Evidence of Physical Aspects of Spiritual Warfare?

Now, I realize asking, "Hey, do any of you have any evidence of Physical Spiritual Warfare?" is kind of contradictory. But you know what I mean.

Now. I always watch shows, and wonder... what is the grain of truth behind this? The show in question this time, is Supernatural. You know, the show about demons and angels and two brothers fighting them and whatnot. Now I know this is a fictional show, and nothing happens to THAT extreme. Or does it?

I am curious to know. I fully believe in the spiritual realm, as in God, Satan and all that. But I view it differently. From a logical approach, God must live in a separate dimension then us. Now to us, this dimension would not be palpable, thus, when we see things from this higher dimension, they are perceived as spiritual to us. Untouchable. Without body or form. BUT. What if... these things are only untouchable to us.... but physical in a sense that in their dimension they are physical. I know pastors say, oh they are spirits... spirits of deception, lust.... They demonize things that aren't caused by demons. But what if the spirits or whatever are actually physical. Just not to us. Therefore there should be some evidence of an actual physical war.

Which brings me to another point. War is not war without casualties. Then it would be safe to assume that Angels and Demons can indeed die in some way. Which would lead me to conclude that they are indeed physical in a sense, if not to us.

It is kind of a confusing concept, and hard to explain. I really hope I did not ramble. Anyways, does anyone know of any examples, experiences, etc. that you could share that you believe was an example or case of Spiritual Warfare? Preferably with physical consequences/results. But anything else will do also.

Note: Sorry if this is in the wrong forum mods, if it is can you just move it please?

Have you ever seen famous reports of Hauntings and poltergeist? some of those would be considered by some to be exactly what you are asking about.

reply to post by benrl


Well yes. I am reading about them currently. But it is also nice to ask ATS to see if anyone has any personal experiences.

Also, this is an interesting article talking about 5 Convincing Paranormal Cases.
5 Convincing Paranormal Cases

Originally posted by Dextraphite
I am curious to know. I fully believe in the spiritual realm, as in God, Satan and all that.

That is a problem.

But I view it differently. From a logical approach, God must live in a separate dimension then us.

Logically, how can you exist in a subset of dimensions? Doesn't that break the concept of dimensions spanning up the universe?
What exactly is your definition of a dimension, and why?

Now to us, this dimension would not be palpable, thus, when we see things from this higher dimension, they are perceived as spiritual to us. Untouchable. Without body or form. BUT. What if... these things are only untouchable to us.... but physical in a sense that in their dimension they are physical.

For the above reason, this does not seem to make any sense.

I know pastors say, oh they are spirits... spirits of deception, lust.... They demonize things that aren't caused by demons. But what if the spirits or whatever are actually physical. Just not to us.

Explaining things with things that do not exist is a bad idea.

Which brings me to another point. War is not war without casualties. Then it would be safe to assume that Angels and Demons can indeed die in some way.

1. Angels and demons would need to exist.
2. What is war to us does not have to be that for immortals, because, well, they're immortal.

Which would lead me to conclude that they are indeed physical in a sense, if not to us.

Concluding from speculation on things that do not exist does not mean much.

It is kind of a confusing concept, and hard to explain. I really hope I did not ramble. Anyways, does anyone know of any examples, experiences, etc. that you could share that you believe was an example or case of Spiritual Warfare? Preferably with physical consequences/results. But anything else will do also.

There is no spiritual world. Therefore no spiritual warfare nor spiritual candy.

reply to post by Dextraphite


Very nice link. The vampire one is a little dubious, but the rest are nothing short of fascinating, regardless of whether you believe their authenticity or not.

In relation to spiritual warfare, however, there IS no such thing as warfare. There is resisting the nature of the cosmos, and there is following it. And really, the only way to resist the cosmos without contributing to the design (because part of the genius is that no matter what you do, you still contribute to its nature) is by remaining still. Do nothing, go nowhere.

And even then, your essence will contribute of its own accord. There is no way to engage in spiritual warfare effectively, because to engage in spiritual warfare with someone or something is to engage in spiritual warfare with yourself. What you give, you get...it all returns to you in some way.

Ephesians 6:10-18
Amen.

Then why, sir, are you posting in a forum for the paranormal if you do not believe in the paranormal?

As well as this, expand your mind a bit. There is MOST DEFINITELY a spiritual world. As there is far too much evidence for there not to be.

Example 1:



And I know this, nor any other example I can provide (there are many) will make you believe. Because things just don't work that way. You have to see for yourself. Myself, in all honesty, well, I have never seen anything strange, anything out of the ordinary. But I have talked to people who have, friends who have, relatives, and read. I read quite a many books. And when a mass amount of people say their is something. I tend to think logically and take it at, not quite face value, but with truth behind it. There is a phenomenon we DO NOT understand as human beings. Nor, do I ever think we really will. But I can try.

reply to post by Consequence


You are approaching the matter from an atheistic point of view, it seems. Which sort of disqualifies you from the conversation, because in order to participate, you need to have an open mind. Participate under the assumption that certain parameters are taken to be true.

I don't believe in the modern "God", "Satan", or any of that stuff. I do, however, believe in other planes of existence that are beyond our current scientific ability to poke with a sharp stick under a bright light - and I believe that what happens in those other planes, affects us here, and vice versa.

However, one must first define war. Then one must define the different aspects of war, and where those concepts and ideas come from. Then we must ponder how a human invention affects things that are not human. Or how human inventions, human thoughts, reflect on dimensions that are so detached from our own. A car in Japan does not have great influence on a cyclist on Florida, but a pedestrian in that same country becomes a lot more relevant due to the capability and the interests involved.

My point here being, we are not nearly as informed as we should be in order to compile a concise and logical conclusion to the question being posed in the OP. Anything presented will be speculation, nothing more. OP, I ask that you take this in consideration, because in the end, it's better to have no idea than to live with the wrong idea.

We've done that sort of thing before, living with wrong ideas - and many have suffered because we were too proud to say, "I don't know. Please teach me," or "I don't know. Let's discuss it, but we probably won't have any answers for each other." Humble pie, my friend. Smell the aroma.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


True, true. A bit dubious if not downright freaking weird. And I do not believe in the nature of the cosmos. No offense to your belief, as everyone is entitled to their own. It just is not mine. It is, however, a fascinating concept. If one that gives us no purpose. In my own opinion. It is also a tad New Age for my liking. But coming from that point of view, what do you think of excorsisms? (spelled incorrectly)

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Star for that. First, if you do not believe in something, you have NO purpose being here. As this is a posting on a paranormal forum about spiritual things. *Cough to the first commenter.* Second: Approach with an open mind please, and be respectful.

When Fiddle misses his silence against Dianna: W + Q + R + R = Dead Fiddle

It’s nothing at all like TV or movies. The battle occurs inside each of us, every second and is manifested through our every choice. The world around all of us is merely electrical impulses interpreted by our brains. After you realize this the world is a much different place. For some better, for some worse; this is the battle.

Imagine the person who kills for a gold chain and then later finds out there never was a gold chain...

reply to post by CosmicCitizen


Ephesians 6:14

Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,

Far too many people stride through life thinking their small window is the only window to see from, and believing that this gives them the right to board up all other windows and force their fellow man to see from only that one window.

Too many times has your little prayer lead to blindness instead of sight. I don't know what else to say to you, but if you are willing to put out your eyes to spite those who act wrongly, then you are no more deserving than them.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Also, I can't help but notice. It seems most religions or beliefs share common beliefs. Which I know has been noticed before.

reply to post by ConspiracyBuff


Oh god I hate when that happens. Unfortunately I have not played in forever so my fiddle is a bit out of practice Shoulda picked Ryze.

Anyways. I really do not think it is all inside of us. I think it is more...

reply to post by Dextraphite


"If a tad New Age for me" Spoken like a true ignoramus, my friend. I say this not as an insult, but as fact. If you were studied on the matter, instead of throwing labels like confetti as a frat party, you would realize that everything "New Age" is only believed to be so because the Church stomped it all out. EVERY SINGLE PIECE of new age whatever that you encounter is millenia old. MILLENIA. No exagerration. New age? It's only because we've finally begun to open our eyes again, that we see it. A lot of this "New Age" stuff was actually practicied during the birth of the Freemasons. All of that alchemy and symbology? Aspects of nature representing the potential of man.

If a man becomes so frightened by the world that he closes his eyes and wanders away, then finds an old cave and learns to overecome his fear, and slowly opens his eyes... the first thing he sees is a crystal that shows him wonders, is that new? Or is it something very, very old that he just rediscovered?

Think on that.

reply to post by Dextraphite


"Supernatural" fan here
According to the show they can be killed by special artifacts....which they were created in their realm of existence (Ruby's knife,the angel sword etc),but not with human made objects.
So i suppose you are right when you assume that in their dimension,they can be killed.

I don't follow any religion or believe in any god,but i'm open to the existence of entities(evil or good)dwelling elsewhere.

Anyways, does anyone know of any examples, experiences, etc. that you could share that you believe was an example or case of Spiritual Warfare?

I don't know if this counts,but this is what happened to me.

This is a dream i saw a long time ago,but i remember every single detail.

I woke up(in the dream) in my bedroom.I left the house and started walking in a road near my house.On a certain point of the road near my old school,a very beautiful little girl,7-8 years old,approached me.Although she was really cute,there was something creepy about her.Then she started talking and told me that she is Zeus and that i should bow down and worship her.
I answered that she was lying and that this was my dream and i wanted her out of it.She said ok but i'll give you something to remember me.
I forgot to mention that she was holding a trident.She stabbed me in the foot with the trident and then i woke up from the pain.My bones,in the place where she hit me were cracked.I had to make up a silly excuse on how this happened to the doctor.

If it was part of some spiritual warfare,i cannot answer that,but i felt at the time,if i complied with her request,i would be in grave danger.

Dreamworld into the real world or some kind of OBE into some other dimension/realm again i cannot answer that.

Several times during dreams ,like this one, i have woken up with injuries on my physical body.When i see something truly evil in my dreams,it comes as a child,at least 95% of the times.

Anyway i've gotten used to it.It's a little annoying at times,especially when i have to deal with the pain or explain how it happened,but at least i live an interesting life

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

You are approaching the matter from an atheistic point of view, it seems. Which sort of disqualifies you from the conversation, because in order to participate, you need to have an open mind.

It is the open mind that helped me understand that in order to have a meaningful discussion, it is a must that things that are being said can be backed up. I'm not an atheist because I don't deny god. It's as dumb as claiming that god exists.
The reason I said what I did was to make the person prove it, which of course, cannot be done. Most likely because, well, there is no god.

However, one must first define war. Then one must define the different aspects of war, and where those concepts and ideas come from. Then we must ponder how a human invention affects things that are not human. Or how human inventions, human thoughts, reflect on dimensions that are so detached from our own. A car in Japan does not have great influence on a cyclist on Florida, but a pedestrian in that same country becomes a lot more relevant due to the capability and the interests involved.

How can a dimension be detached? What exactly is your definition of a dimension?

My point here being, we are not nearly as informed as we should be in order to compile a concise and logical conclusion to the question being posed in the OP. Anything presented will be speculation, nothing more. OP, I ask that you take this in consideration, because in the end, it's better to have no idea than to live with the wrong idea.

Isn't that the same point I made, except I gave the most reasonable answer, too?

reply to post by Consequence

How can a dimension be detached? What exactly is your definition of a dimension?

Detached as in limited interaction. A dimension is a frame of being.

Isn't that the same point I made, except I gave the most reasonable answer, too?

You said, "There is no spiritual world". You used an absolute, which is inherently impossible in a matter of speculation - just like you did with the quoted question above. "Most reasonable"...you give yourself far too much credit.

Try being a little less arrogant and assuming (to start with) that you know no more than the rest of us in this particular field. We'll get along much better.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Detached as in limited interaction. A dimension is a frame of being.

Could that be represented ma] Isn't that the same point I made, except I gave the most reasonable answer, too?
thematically somehow?

You said, "There is no spiritual world". You used an absolute, which is inherently impossible in a matter of speculation

Well, as I also said, I used those words mainly for someone to prove that there is a spiritual world.
But since it can't be proven (because it doesn't exist), it's a bad base to start from.
It's not up to science to prove that the spiritual world doesn't exist. It doesn't work that way. Science is used to prove things that exists. That's the only way to not make up things.

- just like you did with the quoted question above. "Most reasonable"...you give yourself far too much credit.

Actually, I was being kind. I was supposed say that that is the way it is.
Unless science would say otherwise, of course. But we're running out of ways to prove that the spiritual world exists (because it doesn't).

Try being a little less arrogant and assuming (to start with) that you know no more than the rest of us in this particular field. We'll get along much better.

edit on 24-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I don't assume that I know better than the rest of you. I'm just saying that science does not agree with the claims made in this thread, and since there's no proof to turn this in favor of the OP, I regretfully have to say it, as I don't like spreading nonsense.

Don't get stuck on my personality (like I don't care about yours), but focus on the content of what have been said. It doesn't matter who I or you are.

reply to post by Consequence


Arguing with you is a more worthless expense of energy than I feel necessary at this time. I don't know what you're even doing in this thread, if you are unwilling to maintain an open mind.

I bid you a fond adieu as I return to the topic at hand. Good day, sir.

With that distraction set firmly aside, I postulate that there is no warfare, only conflicts of interest. But let's entertain that thought a bit, shall we? In order to wage war, there must be two conflicting parties that are actively aiming to harm each other. What, then, is the contention these two groups have with one another?