THE CHAKANA and THE QAPACÑAN - Sacred Math and more.

For a long time I’ve been wishing to dedicate thread to these important concepts. I strongly believe they are vital to understand the pre-columbian cultures. It might be a long reading. I’m not skilled in math at all, so please be a bit patient with me this time.

Everything started with an amazing discovery made by Maria Scholten, while this anthropologist was studying the Chavin Culture back in the 50’s, she found that pre-columbian cultures used an specific measure :

3.34 x 10 ^ n.

Maria Scholten called it "The American Unit". Rectangles were based in 7 and 8 units per side and the diagonal created by this shape had a very special signification by all means.



Taking those mesures :

7 x 3.34 = 23.38 meters.
8 x 3.34 = 26.72 meters.

The diagonal length is 35.50 meters (10.63 x 3.34).

Why the diagonal is important? The Qechua word for “diagonal” is "chekhalluwa", which means "truth", the diagonal is the line is true.



This measure of 35.50 meters looks like a key used by the architects of Chavin. This number got to have a secret meaning for them. In any case, certainly Chavin Culture had a very advanced mathematical knowledge. But the knowledge of this diagonal seems to be previous to Chavin or at least not exclusive for them. Following this line, it connects with other important sites related to other cultures.



After all, it looks like the archaeoastronomy in Chavin and other cultures are based in the same 2 concepts, The Chakana and The Qapacñan.



The origin of the CHAKANA symbol is unknown and can be found in buildings and ceramics of many cultures like Paracas, Chavin, Tiwanaku and Nazca. Here is a huge Chakana found in Ventarron (Peru), it's 4000 years old.

It had already made news when the site, once used by locals as a garbage dump, was found to be home to a temple complex with the oldest murals yet found in Peru.

Now, thanks to the work of archaeologist Ignacio Alva Meneses, son of the famed Walter Alva who discovered of the tomb of the Lord of Sipán, the 4000 year old temple has revealed another stunning secret.

To the side of the temple, one of a series of rooms has been discovered that is shaped like the ancient Andean symbol called the Chacana – also known as the Andean Cross, or in Spanish, the Cruz Andina. As one of the oldest examples of this important cultural symbol discovered, it may eventually help provide more insight into its origin.

Another amazing Chakana, in Nazca (Peru) :





The origin of this symbol is lost in time, but it may represent evidence of the existence of a major ancient culture, able to spread its knowledge to distant parts of the world.



I believe the Chakana represents the natural union between religion and science, this is the primary perception in the andean cosmogony. One great example of this is "Pi" (π), this number is enclosed in the Chakana too.

The Chakana Cross is also known as the Andean Cross or Inca Cross, and symbolizes several aspects of Andean mythology.

The three steps represent levels of attainment of consciousness in the three 'worlds' or tiers:

•Hanan Pacha: the upper world of the stars, celestial beings and gods (also represented by the condor)
•Kay Pacha: the middle world of Mother Earth and human life (also represented by the puma)
•Uqhu Pacha: the lower world of the underworld and death (also represented by the snake)

Central hole

The central hole represents the Incan capital of Cusco, the portal from one tier to the next, and the Eye of God.

Twelve points

The entire symbol additionally represents the cyclical year, with each of the twelve corners corresponding to a month.

Four arms :

The four 'cross' arms represent:
•the four directions of the compass,
•the four 'classical elements' of earth, air, water and fire,
•the four main stars of the Southern Cross, an important constellation for the Inca, who believed that was the centre of the Universe.

www.seiyaku.com...
enperublog.com...
www.grau-anatheoresis.com...
www.fronate.pro.ec...
www.labyrinthina.com...
nazcamystery.com...:_Sun_&_Star
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

reply to post by Trueman

A beautiful thread, thank you.

I'll read it again, watch the videos and check your links: most interesting.
I've visited some of these Chavin sites years ago, but was not familiar with the findings of Maria Scholten (then again: I seldom use a guide).

The same (style of) geometric topology can also be found in how the Celts built their sites throughout Europe. And as I assume, many other cultures as well.

Originally posted by Movhisattva
reply to post by Trueman

 

The same (style of) geometric topology can also be found in how the Celts built their sites throughout Europe. And as I assume, many other cultures as well.

edit on 23/9/12 by Movhisattva because: (no reason given)

Everyday I am more and more convinced there was a huge ancient culture that spreaded its knowledge all over the world.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by Movhisattva
reply to post by Trueman

 

The same (style of) geometric topology can also be found in how the Celts built their sites throughout Europe. And as I assume, many other cultures as well.

edit on 23/9/12 by Movhisattva because: (no reason given)

Everyday I am more and more convinced there was a huge ancient culture that spreaded its knowledge all over the world.

I'm on the same boat as you are. It is interesting to see the links spread across several continents.

reply to post by Trueman


Having always been fastinated by the ancients, I, to have wondered about whether or not there was an advanced ancient civilization which was all over the world. My thoughts have been about the commomality of various things which show up in digs around the world. Pyramids seem to be quite common, now granted that the styles are different and that it is a very easy way to construct a megalithic structure. But there are many images and myths which are common to the various cultures.

It makes me wonder about whether they had contact with each other. It could be that they had similar experiences worldwide. However it occured to me that there could have been a worldwide civilization which existed preflood. The myth of the flood seems to be something that links most, maybe even all cultures. My belief has always been that the flood was caused be the melting of the last glacieal era. That was a worldwide occurance which would have affected all areas of the coast worldwide.

Since it seems that man likes to settle near coastlines, if there were a civilization at the time it would be all under water now. Except perhaps some areas which were not near the coasts.Now it seems as if there are more and more remains of civilization showing up around the world as our underwater tools evolve. It seems to me that perhaps there is mounting evidence to support the view that man became civilized much earlier than mainstream science would have us believe.

What you put forth here in this thread would, to me at least, seem to add to the evidence for that earlier civilization. Great find, thanks for posting this.S&F

reply to post by lonegurkha


Since you mention the pyramids, notice the Chakana is a 2 dimensions representation of a pyramid, like the first "blue prints".

reply to post by Trueman


Ahhh I see that you are correct thanks for pointing that out I missed it.
Very interesting, perhaps that's why it's so common. I wonder if it's a blueprint,or if can be used in some way to create a pyramid.The ancients knew may things which we have forgotten or which have been lost. they lived much closer to the earth than we do. They noticed relationships that we miss. I wish we had that knowlege today.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by Movhisattva
reply to post by Trueman

 

The same (style of) geometric topology can also be found in how the Celts built their sites throughout Europe. And as I assume, many other cultures as well.

edit on 23/9/12 by Movhisattva because: (no reason given)

Everyday I am more and more convinced there was a huge ancient culture that spreaded its knowledge all over the world.

Everyday I am more and more convinced there wasn't a huge ancient culture that spreaded its knowledge all over the world. lol

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by Movhisattva
reply to post by Trueman

 

The same (style of) geometric topology can also be found in how the Celts built their sites throughout Europe. And as I assume, many other cultures as well.

edit on 23/9/12 by Movhisattva because: (no reason given)

Everyday I am more and more convinced there was a huge ancient culture that spreaded its knowledge all over the world.

Everyday I am more and more convinced there wasn't a huge ancient culture that spreaded its knowledge all over the world. lol

Hey Hans !...good to see you. Care to elaborate brother?

reply to post by Trueman


Howdy Trueman

I was being amusing, I wanted to see if a counter-assertion would even the boards.....and it worked!

Briefly - and if you want more details you/we can start another more specific thread on it. Civilizations leave massive amounts of evidence-and I mean massive. There is absolutely no doubt as to the existence of the main Ancient Civilizations, with milliions of artifacts found, thousands or surveyed habitations and tens of thousands of inscriptions.

For missing civilization 'x' there is nothing. Alternatives and fringe try to create possibilities by looking for commonalities amongst civilizations and cultures but ignore that humans tend to create technology to solve the same problems, myths that have common elements and art that also has common links, because that is what we do and we tend to think alike.

If you want to link every single civilization in the world to the mysterious civilization 'x' - just say that art is common amongst them all, as are stone tools, fire, burials, gods, marriage, etc they all have that but isn't it common creation instead of hyperdiffiusion.......that is the question

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by Trueman

 

Howdy Trueman

I was being amusing, I wanted to see if a counter-assertion would even the boards.....and it worked!

Briefly - and if you want more details you/we can start another more specific thread on it. Civilizations leave massive amounts of evidence-and I mean massive. There is absolutely no doubt as to the existence of the main Ancient Civilizations, with milliions of artifacts found, thousands or surveyed habitations and tens of thousands of inscriptions.

For missing civilization 'x' there is nothing. Alternatives and fringe try to create possibilities by looking for commonalities amongst civilizations and cultures but ignore that humans tend to create technology to solve the same problems, myths that have common elements and art that also has common links, because that is what we do and we tend to think alike.

If you want to link every single civilization in the world to the mysterious civilization 'x' - just say that art is common amongst them all, as are stone tools, fire, burials, gods, marriage, etc they all have that but isn't it common creation instead of hyperdiffiusion.......that is the question

First of all, I like the name "Civilization X", great title for a thread.

Regarding the lack of evidence about this mysterious civilization, I disagree as you can guess. Underwater ruins had been found in different places, Legends about founders of different cultures coming from unknown lands are common in different cultures. One had been confirmed to be true a few days ago, when the ruins of a city founded by a descendant of Naylamp was found. ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ).

Certainly, it can't be easy to find traces of buildings made 10,000 years ago or more. They got to be mostly destroyed or covered.

Finally, if lack of evidence over the land, maybe it's time to look to the stars.

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by Trueman

 

For missing civilization 'x' there is nothing. Alternatives and fringe try to create possibilities by looking for commonalities amongst civilizations and cultures but ignore that humans tend to create technology to solve the same problems, myths that have common elements and art that also has common links, because that is what we do and we tend to think alike.

Looking at the Ancient beauty and similarities all around the world, one has to be completely blind sighted not to see a possibility for a common origin. I don't say there has to be one, but taking it all to consideration, and still totally shutting out the possibility... well my friend, then I personally think you are pissing uphill in a headwind.

And OP, a star for you for this thread!

reply to post by Trueman


I don't want to crash your thread but this one is very interesting for me because of what has been found in my country. Please take a look at this thread I wrote a while ago.

Thank you for the interesting thread, no time to read it all atm but flagged it for a later read!

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by Trueman

 

Howdy Trueman

I was being amusing, I wanted to see if a counter-assertion would even the boards.....and it worked!

Briefly - and if you want more details you/we can start another more specific thread on it. Civilizations leave massive amounts of evidence-and I mean massive. There is absolutely no doubt as to the existence of the main Ancient Civilizations, with milliions of artifacts found, thousands or surveyed habitations and tens of thousands of inscriptions.

For missing civilization 'x' there is nothing. Alternatives and fringe try to create possibilities by looking for commonalities amongst civilizations and cultures but ignore that humans tend to create technology to solve the same problems, myths that have common elements and art that also has common links, because that is what we do and we tend to think alike.

If you want to link every single civilization in the world to the mysterious civilization 'x' - just say that art is common amongst them all, as are stone tools, fire, burials, gods, marriage, etc they all have that but isn't it common creation instead of hyperdiffiusion.......that is the question

First of all, I like the name "Civilization X", great title for a thread.

Regarding the lack of evidence about this mysterious civilization, I disagree as you can guess. Underwater ruins had been found in different places, Legends about founders of different cultures coming from unknown lands are common in different cultures. One had been confirmed to be true a few days ago, when the ruins of a city founded by a descendant of Naylamp was found. ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ).

Certainly, it can't be easy to find traces of buildings made 10,000 years ago or more. They got to be mostly destroyed or covered.

Finally, if lack of evidence over the land, maybe it's time to look to the stars.

edit on 25-9-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)

Yeah why don't you start that up using the title Civilization 'x', as noted earlier a Civilization is different from a culture. We have found lots of cultures and will probably find a lot more in the future. Naylamp is technically a culture and not a civilization and not particularly ancient.

From unknown lands, except for East Africa, humans came from somewhere else so that is a common myth. At this time no underwater 'ruins' have been associated with civliization 'x'.

Actually its easy to determine if a building was built, even if only made of wood-as long as they drove poles into the ground. Habitation levels leave distinct marks in the soil, civilizations leave massive archaeological footprints-humans are very messy and they tend to distort the environment which also shows up too!

reply to post by Hanslune

Naylamp is technically a culture and not a civilization and not particularly ancient.

Naylamp is not a culture my friend.

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Naylamp is technically a culture and not a civilization and not particularly ancient.

Naylamp is not a culture my friend.

Sorry I meant Nor

- Science and Technology
- Development of an art style
- Social ranking system
- Specialized Occupations
- Trade over long distance
- Surplus of food
- Form of Government
- Religion
- Large Public Buildings
- Highly populated settlements
- Development of a written language

This is general consensus on what you need to have a civilization, I've seen other slightly different versions too

Notice the Chakana in this plate (center of the plate), this is probably one of the most spectacular evidences regarding the topic.

Main altar of the Temple of Coricancha to Cuzco.
Drawing of the sixteenth century Aymara columnist
Juan Santa Cruz Pachacuti Yamqui Salcamayhua

The Great Inca Temple of Coricancha, in Cuzco, was to ornament a gold plate oval, flanked by effigies of the moon and sun. Nitsche Lehman sees the representation of the supreme deity of the Incas, Huiracocha the form of the cosmic egg. He cites several cosmological myths collected in Peru by early Spanish chroniclers, including this one: the hero creator asks his father, the Sun, to create men to populate the world. It sends to earth three eggs. First - golden egg - come the nobles of the second - silver egg - leaving their wives, the last third - copper egg - comes from the people.

Interpretation:

Vertical axis:
- 1: Southern Cross: (top of the design center), and dynamic ordering principle of the Cross Square, opposing
- 4: Collcapata: (bottom of the design center), spatial principle. Literally translated, means, collca = depositary pata = medium, that is to say, any space guarde or supporting the measure.
- 2: Pachamama: the cosmos: the figurative ovoid is called "Tiksimuyu", "all absolute", the "cosmic egg", regulated and protected in its upper and lower portions by the Southern Cross. Tiksimuyu consists of three basic parts of Pachamama (el cosmos), see the explanation below on the organization of the three worlds.
- 3: Chakana in general: Chakana, means bridge or scale up or down and keeps the union of man with the Andean cosmos.

Horizontal axis and oppositions:
- A: Moon (Quilla), Sun (Inti)
- B: Afternoon (slow), Morning (manana)
- C: Winter (invierno-Puquy), Summer (verano-Hucha)
- D: star linked with a constellation associated with camels. [Katachillay] - Fog (niebla)
- E: Lightning / thunder / lightning - Hail
- F: Arc of heaven [or kuchi turu Manya] - Source (fuente) [pukyu]. Duality rainbow sky - source is rain, or water from above, versus the water that emerges from below.
- G: Male [qari] - Female [Warmi]. Human duality, man and woman are located near the center. This duality is presented with the union of two subjects Ayllus (communities) separate, eventually forming the unity of the couple.
- H: The eyes of all sorts of things (could be as astronomical mirrors - tree [mallki] ancestral.

I wonder if that was the inspiration for this one :




www.latitudsur.org...

cosmologybus.typepad.com...

Originally posted by Trueman
Notice the Chakana in this plate (center of the plate), this is probably one of the most spectacular evidences regarding the topic.

Evidence that the people had their own religious cosmology? Yes they did

Nice representation of the Southern cross

Not quite sure why you included the Voyager plaque? Or what it has to do with gold object

reply to post by Hanslune

Not quite sure why you included the Voyager plaque? Or what it has to do with gold object

To upset you brother.....sorry, couldn't resist.