Gospel of Jesus's Wife is fake, claims expert

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by Hermit777
4. Mary M. was NOT a WHORE that was again made up by a Pope control the masses at all times.

so there lol

No argument from me on that one, I made a thread about it, in fact....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So there

...with bells on

'
Giggles to your Bells :-)

I am glad you did it can not be said enough. Thank you

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by redhorse

 

Where did you get your history? The Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the books of the Bible, the Council was called to address the Arian heresy (exactly how to define Christ's deity). The last book of the Bible was Revelation written in 95-96 AD. All Paul's letters were written before 65 AD, same with Peter. So what are you talking about?

The The Council of Nicaea had everything to do with Stating what belonged and what did not. There were many versions including the Gnostics. It was The Council of Nicaea that removed or stated what belonged in the Cannon and what did not. Anything that did not control people was removed.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, who it turn was disciple of John. It's hard to fathom a man once removed from Christ's "beloved" apostle didn't have the correct idea what was considered legitimate scripture and what was not. Sorry, that's extremely unlikely.

It was all about control and only about control. ROME was always about Control Poly or Monotheist and so were Romans. Read the Gnostics and understand The Pope inhiliated a whole movement but they at least got 3 people down the Mountain with the knowledge. And a Pope and a King again tried to Destroy the Truth with the KT
and again the knowledge escaped. And very soon the truth will be evident.

Originally posted by Hermit777

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by redhorse

 

Where did you get your history? The Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the books of the Bible, the Council was called to address the Arian heresy (exactly how to define Christ's deity). The last book of the Bible was Revelation written in 95-96 AD. All Paul's letters were written before 65 AD, same with Peter. So what are you talking about?

The The Council of Nicaea had everything to do with Stating what belonged and what did not. There were many versions including the Gnostics. It was The Council of Nicaea that removed or stated what belonged in the Cannon and what did not. Anything that did not control people was removed.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have to say this... Lord knows that Dan Brown made enough with his disinformation that cause people to think this, but... my cross to bear, lol.

No, the Council of Nicaea had NOTHING to do with determining what went into the Bible. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

We have historical records that demonstrate that Biblical Canon had been largely settled over a hundred years prior to the Council.

We have historical records that show what WAS discussed at this conference, and it was the Arian controversy, not anything at all to do with the Bible.


You, on the other hand, have The Da Vinci Code or some equally dubious fiction.

You're wrong.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Hermit777
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

so there lol

What a convincing argument

The so There was just to be funny read the rest, i made my point and added levity. Your contribution was so enlightening.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Hermit777

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by redhorse

 

Where did you get your history? The Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the books of the Bible, the Council was called to address the Arian heresy (exactly how to define Christ's deity). The last book of the Bible was Revelation written in 95-96 AD. All Paul's letters were written before 65 AD, same with Peter. So what are you talking about?

The The Council of Nicaea had everything to do with Stating what belonged and what did not. There were many versions including the Gnostics. It was The Council of Nicaea that removed or stated what belonged in the Cannon and what did not. Anything that did not control people was removed.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have to say this... Lord knows that Dan Brown made enough with his disinformation that cause people to think this, but... my cross to bear, lol.

No, the Council of Nicaea had NOTHING to do with determining what went into the Bible. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

We have historical records that demonstrate that Biblical Canon had been largely settled over a hundred years prior to the Council.

We have historical records that show what WAS discussed at this conference, and it was the Arian controversy, not anything at all to do with the Bible.

 

You, on the other hand, have The Da Vinci Code or some equally dubious fiction.

You're wrong.

Ah no my PhD says i am correct and Dan Brown writes nice fiction base on some fact and a lot of supposition.

There were 3 Major Cannons the Greek and Egyptian are 2 and were Weeded by the Council of Nicaea, and then Outlawed. As i said they were still ROMAN and wanted Control. And nothing was actually Settled 100 years earlier except staying away from LIONS in the Colosseum. The Romans wanted Control, the head of the Roman Empire was just trying to keep his Empire together. With all that there are still 2 Catholic Churches,
Greek Orthodox and Roman Orthodox. They just could not make it happen in 350 but close to finding a new way to control the people. Oh and BTW the Emperor with In Hoc Signo Vinces still did not get Baptized until he was on his deathbed. So much for his Belief. His little trick kept everything afloat for almost 300 more years.

Originally posted by Hermit777
Read the Gnostics and understand The Pope inhiliated a whole movement but they at least got 3 people down the Mountain with the knowledge.

What the heck does that mean? I've read the Gnostics and you're making zero sense.

And a Pope and a King again tried to Destroy the Truth with the KT and again the knowledge escaped. And very soon the truth will be evident.

So, not a conspiracy theory out there that you're not in with, eh? What are your thoughts on the Masons?

Originally posted by Hermit777
Ah no my PhD says i am correct and Dan Brown write nice fiction base on some fact.

What clown college gives out PhDs to people who claim that the Council of Nicaea determined Biblical Canon?

But, please, do share your Doctoral Dissertation on how you and Michael Baigent are right and the rest of the world is wrong on this subject.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Hermit777
Read the Gnostics and understand The Pope inhiliated a whole movement but they at least got 3 people down the Mountain with the knowledge.

What the heck does that mean? I've read the Gnostics and you're making zero sense.

And a Pope and a King again tried to Destroy the Truth with the KT and again the knowledge escaped. And very soon the truth will be evident.

So, not a conspiracy theory out there that you're not in with, eh? What are your thoughts on the Masons?

I am a Mason!! and a few other things and if you had a depth of knowlege you would know i was talking about the Murder of the Cathars, 1000 Knights Templar, and G-d knows how many Celtics and Druids.

So you can attempt to belittle my post but truly i only have a battle of wits with armed people.

I am not here to trash or destroy anyones closely held beliefs, If someone wants to believe G-D is in a Giant Snail or can only make G-dly Blue from a snail or they can not pray to G-D so be it. (It is a pretty Blue)
If people wish to belive only the Words in the misquoted mistranslated Current Bible Came from G-D,
fine. If it is a deeply held belief there is nothing i can say to change it and if it gives them comfort, then all the better, people need comfort. I am here to try to give others who have an OPEN MIND some facts i have picked up along the way, in some 60 - 70 years of study. I Try to have a good idea about most things if i come a crossed a nugget of NEW information i try not to let my left brain dismiss it out of hand. Did Jesus have a Wife?
Probably Why Not, does a wife and children make it so he could not Heal, could not Ascend? Does it make him any less then what he was NO. I have often quipped with my Jesuit friends how can you council parishioners on say Marriage with out going through all the little details of that everyday life, (e.g. Stop Squeezing the Toothpaste in the Middle, Stop teasing your sister, stop squealing on your brother, who do we pay this week and what bill do we age till next week) It is like learning to drive a sportscar from someone who rides a Camel.
I do actually get laughs from the absurdity. But i also admit i sometimes envy the solitude my Jesuit Brothers have to meditate and pray. Would not trade it for seeing the look on ,my Daughters face when she paints a new piece of art or learns a new instrument.

Will i dismiss out of hand that a piece of paper was found from M.M.s diary speaking about her Husband Yeaheshua no i will not. Even if it is a partial copy of a copy of a copy. There is a Reason for that the C of Nicea and the Popes and Bishops that came from that ordered copies of the Gnostic Texts Destroyed on Pain of death. Good Christians i can tell.

I am suspicious of any Religion that Controls thinks it has to Control and Burns and Kills in the Name Of G-D.
And i take a great Deal of Umbridge to it

Originally posted by Hermit777

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Hermit777
Read the Gnostics and understand The Pope inhiliated a whole movement but they at least got 3 people down the Mountain with the knowledge.

What the heck does that mean? I've read the Gnostics and you're making zero sense.

And a Pope and a King again tried to Destroy the Truth with the KT and again the knowledge escaped. And very soon the truth will be evident.

So, not a conspiracy theory out there that you're not in with, eh? What are your thoughts on the Masons?

I am a Mason!! and a few other things and if you had a depth of knowlege you would know i was talking about the Murder of the Cathars, 1000 Knights Templar, and G-d knows how many Celtics and Druids.

Yes, I know what KT stood for. You have a PhD and didn't understand my dig at the Masons? Shame, shame, you better turn in your sheepskin along with your trowel

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Hermit777

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Hermit777
Read the Gnostics and understand The Pope inhiliated a whole movement but they at least got 3 people down the Mountain with the knowledge.

What the heck does that mean? I've read the Gnostics and you're making zero sense.

And a Pope and a King again tried to Destroy the Truth with the KT and again the knowledge escaped. And very soon the truth will be evident.

So, not a conspiracy theory out there that you're not in with, eh? What are your thoughts on the Masons?

I am a Mason!! and a few other things and if you had a depth of knowlege you would know i was talking about the Murder of the Cathars, 1000 Knights Templar, and G-d knows how many Celtics and Druids.

Yes, I know what KT stood for. You have a PhD and didn't understand my dig at the Masons? Shame, shame, you better turn in your sheepskin along with your trowel

Actually the sentence you picked referred to the Cathars. you tried to cover but oh well.
Again this is taking on all the usefulness of a Monty Python Skit. Without the funny.

see below:
___________________________________________________________________

Originally posted by Hermit777

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Hermit777
Read the Gnostics and understand The Pope inhiliated a whole movement but they at least got 3 people down the Mountain with the knowledge.


you said:
What the heck does that mean? I've read the Gnostics and you're making zero sense.

____________________________________________________________________

reply to post by Hermit777


Yes, I said "I've read the Gnostics and you're making zero sense", because you are. The Gnostic Christians have been a bit of a hobby of mine, and the subject of the OP (remember that?) is in reference to the 2nd-4th Century Gnostic Christians, not Catharism. You don't really believe that the gnosis jumped from Valentinus all the way down to the 12 Century, do you?

Still waiting, by the way, for your scholarly research that proves The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail wasn't a work of fiction.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by Hermit777

 

Yes, I said "I've read the Gnostics and you're making zero sense", because you are. The Gnostic Christians have been a bit of a hobby of mine, and the subject of the OP (remember that?) is in reference to the 2nd-4th Century Gnostic Christians, not Catharism. You don't really believe that the gnosis jumped from Valentinus all the way down to the 12 Century, do you?

Still waiting, by the way, for your scholarly research that proves The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail wasn't a work of fiction.

If you would read before speaking you will see where i said i do not care about Dan Brown that it was Fiction. Again assigning ideas to me does not make your point, i have no need to defend an idea that is not mine. i already said i don't care about Dan Brown's Fiction nor do i care about that other guy you mention, do not even know who that is Michael somebody.

Dan Browns Book and the movie which i liked more, are fiction. One point in his thesis for example, if there is 1 scion there are 50 or 100. Next Point there is no Priory of Zion or Scion but there was and is a Priory of Cistern. Which supported the Cathars and K.T. and aided getting them to Scotland and Prussia, under the nose of the syphilitic King of France, and Senile Pope.

Gnostic writings and study, did not jump it moved out of harms way. Do you actually know anything about the Cathars ? More over this piece of Papyrus it appears comes from a Coptic copy of The Gospel of John interesting. Not a Gnostic. But more Proof from the Council of Nicaea on they destroyed, and had ordered destroyed the Gnostic Writings on pains of death. They had had caused the modification of the cannon to suit their own purposes, and to Bolster Saul's/Paul's credibility. To control the masses and keep Women away from Teaching. By 350 they the elders who wanted control of people drank the Saul/Paul Kool Aide. Of course you know all about that, The Greek / Eastern Orthodox weren't as bad they did make the 2 Women who followed Paul around Saints; ie; St. Thecla en.wikipedia.org...

If anyone wants to read the first Draft of the PEER Review of Dr. King's and Ms. Luijendijk's work
here is the link:

www.hds.harvard.edu... Them_draft_0920.pdf

Moving along repeating the same close minded arguments and accusing me of being a conspirity theorist and repeating it over and over asking me to support a work of fiction, where all i like is the Movie, does not make it so, that is simply the show of the weakness of your arguments, and so far quite frankly your mental acuity.

Now if you truly want a discussion, look at the Peer Review paper and give REAL Logical Reasons why this is no good. Be Logical and not "this I believe nonsense" that does not count, i believe somewhere there is a polka-dotted elephant, but i have no picture. That holds no water in an intellectual debate.

Now if you rather Believe that Yeheshua never married and died a Virgin and you Truly believe that, then FINE
i have absolutely no want to change your mind, or tell you secrets about Santa or the Easter Bunny either, nor do i wish to convince you about my Polka-Dotted Elephants. (BTW Santa is REAL so There)

You opened this thread, or as they used to say in my neighborhood "You shot your Mouth off now deal". There are people reading this lurking, that do have Open Minds and Hearts and questions, and just maybe they want to learn.

And for the record, Comparative Religions, Reading and speaking several languagues, Reading several Languages several of them Dead Languages is much more then a "Hobby" to me. When i state my Opinions and or suppositions or deductions and facts i say so. Here is a Fact, the worst thing that happened to Christianity was the Council of Nicaea. Here is another Fact Yeheshua/Jesus was a JEW, James the Just Bishop of Jerusalem was one of the first 12 Jews for Jesus. He kept Kosher but believed in the Resurrection
and Ascension of the Master, he knew his brother.

Deduction from the Avail Facts say he knew his brother was married to Mary the Master and had 2 children a Boy and a Girl, Thomas Dimititous Judas/Jude/Judea and Sarah. This did not bother him in the least, even when he was stoned and murdered by his own people. He Believed, HE SAW. Occam's Razor says, given the choice of 2 opposing propositions the most likely, the simplest one, is probably correct. Just like any other male in Judea in 26 CE it was very common to be married by age 30.

Continued

Im an expert an i say (think) jesus was black.... And probably had many wives, after he came back.... idk.... Where he went after the ressurection is what i'd like to know, it never says he died twice...

reply to post by adjensen


Next this is not the only piece of papyrus, it has many little brothers and sisters, they were part of the collection of Professor Gerhard Fecht who wrote this little dity "Metrik des Hebraischen und Phonizischen (Agypten und Altes Testament)" (German Edition) [Paperback]

This particular piece comes from the "Gospel of John" yep good old John, the last of the BIG 4, if this papyri puzzle can be fitted together it will beg the question; when did that little piece of information get erased ? Someone had an Un-Authorized copy, could get you burned at the stake, bloody Heretic. Yes 350 CE did so much to change things, Out with the Lions in with the Stakes. See progress

I liked the Mother of the Emperor of Rome so much more. All she did was start some archeology (Arguably the Mother of Modern Archeology), find tonnes of nails, parts of crosses, (she was rather big on Relics).

This became big money among Rich Christians, (everyone needs an Indulgence right? :-)). My Son you did what ? Adultery bad boy 20 Hail Mary's and 50 Denarii you will get this splinter from the True Cross keep it with you always and Sin no more,oh dear you murdered your friend to get his wife well a Week of Hail Mary's and 100 Quinarius you will get this skull of john the Baptist keep it with you always and Sin no more. Father it's a little small ? Yes it was from when he was a child, now go and sin no more. In all fairness it was a very young church at the time, and they knew they had to evangelize over a Billion people in time, that takes a lot of Quinarius, even Mormons and Scientologist know that, a shame they have no relics, but only 7 Magic golden dinner plates, and those Venusian and Martian souvenirs are hard to get.

Anyway back to the point 1000 years later this Spoil sport named, Martin Luther did away with all that, no indulgences, what are you gonna do when you are bad EEK!!!! Oh may be punished, unless you are rich
then you can do bad stuff, have it called a youthful boo boo and become President. But even without Indulgences Protestants flourished, They had that whole Gutenberg Bible thing going on, along with getting Married and babies, printing Bibles in the common Language and passing them out selling them, then 500 years later the Gideons came and shot that profit center all to hell. But luckily they also believe in Marriage and babies and yes they are growing.

Yep and besides evangelizing Mormons believe in Marriage, and babies and Marriage and ... Just no Spirits (Liquid kind) or Coffee. Oh and they have some of the best Genealogy Records on the planet, oh and they baptize you into their religion after your dead, which is ok i won't be needing Coffee so much then, and if i get to come back well all bets are off, sorry guys i need my coffee and the occasional Beer.

Scientologist well according to TV & some celebs i guess they also believe in Marriage and babies, Staying Married well i think there is a sanity clause in the Prenup not sure, are they growing? They are Keeping population pace with the MMPI and MCMI-I on their end of the Bell Curve i think.

Being from NYC i could get really Mean here but i won't, beside along with having Jesuit Priests for friends and Franciscan Priests i also have many Emir friends and did a whole "Orrance of Arabia" Phase somewhere and lived & worked with Bedouin, they are Kind peaceful People, and follow their Holy Book. (So yes i am conflicted and confused) Oh and they belive in Marriage and having babies too, no indulgences, lots and lots of prayer.

So we will then turn to Quakers, there are so few, they have no indulgences, Low population, and are actually harmless, nice peaceful people, even Pres. Nixon. They are keeping pace with themselves, which is pretty slow no cars, and according to TV many young are on Vacation, but Marriage and babies are still happening.

Shakers well they are all gone now, No more Shakers, they had this belief, Peaceful, nice people no marriage, no babies, no more Shakers, See how that works they were around for like 100 years, ?

Hmmmm i wonder what would have happened if everyone listened to Paul/Saul and if a perfectly healthy Man or Woman of 25, 26 was not Married There is a very Strong possibility, there would have been alot of Jews who believe in the Resurrection / Ascension and it might have been very possible that St. Peters Cathedral
would have been Beth Peter Shalom in Rome.

Oh and a side effect would be Fish, Whales, Trees, animals would all be happier if most Humans were Shakers!

So it appears that Marriage and babies are the root cause of the Christian and Other Religions Growing because at a certain age, time of life, IT's WHAT PEOPLE DO!

And you know what it doesn't make you any less, if anything it makes you MORE be you Son of Man or Son of G-D, of just basically Human.

reply to post by Hermit777


Yeah, you're kind of digging your hole deeper.

I asked you to demonstrate that The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail wasn't fiction, not The Da Vinci Code. Brown lifted some of his ideas for his book from the purportedly non-fiction Holy Blood and Holy Grail, which resulted in him being sued by authors of said book (they lost.)

If anyone wants to read the first Draft of the PEER Review of Dr. King's and Ms. Luijendijk's work
here is the link

Actually, that paper was given "provisional approval", which is different than being fully vetted through peer review, and that approval has now been withdrawn until the ink can be tested to validate its age.

You keep rambling on about the Council of Nicaea determining the contents of the Bible, when that is demonstrably false. Not murky, not "oh, maybe", but utterly without basis. There is no evidence, whatsoever, that Biblical canon was discussed at Nicaea and every historian who has weighed in on this, apart from utter nutter amateur "historians", says that it's not true.

The fragment in question is clearly not a part of any "Gospel of John", and Watson et al have demonstrated that, apart from the word "wife", it is completely constructed from the Coptic Gospel of Thomas. Your Smithsonian Magazine article doesn't say that Gerhard Fecht owned this fragment (or any "brothers and sisters",) rather that there is a typewritten letter, supposedly from him, testifying to its authenticity. Sadly, Fecht is long since dead, so this letter cannot be verified as being authentic.

The remainder of your post is mostly nonsensical babbling, so one is left with a great deal of doubt as to whether your claimed academic credentials as fictional as the books you seem to base your history off of.

That said, the tests to determine the age of the ink are supposedly underway, and we should have a definitive answer before too long. Science will determine who is right, and who is wrong.

Originally posted by Hermit777

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by redhorse

 

Where did you get your history? The Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the books of the Bible, the Council was called to address the Arian heresy (exactly how to define Christ's deity). The last book of the Bible was Revelation written in 95-96 AD. All Paul's letters were written before 65 AD, same with Peter. So what are you talking about?

The The Council of Nicaea had everything to do with Stating what belonged and what did not. There were many versions including the Gnostics. It was The Council of Nicaea that removed or stated what belonged in the Cannon and what did not. Anything that did not control people was removed.

That's completely false. Go look at the subheading titled "misconceptions" for the Wiki entry for the Council of Nicaea. You're getting your history from fiction books.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Hermit777

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by redhorse

 

Where did you get your history? The Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the books of the Bible, the Council was called to address the Arian heresy (exactly how to define Christ's deity). The last book of the Bible was Revelation written in 95-96 AD. All Paul's letters were written before 65 AD, same with Peter. So what are you talking about?

The The Council of Nicaea had everything to do with Stating what belonged and what did not. There were many versions including the Gnostics. It was The Council of Nicaea that removed or stated what belonged in the Cannon and what did not. Anything that did not control people was removed.

That's completely false. Go look at the subheading titled "misconceptions" for the Wiki entry for the Council of Nicaea. You're getting your history from fiction books.

Considering Wiki is posted by non-professional people in archeology, anthropology and allied sciences and disciplines, i could care less what it says.

There are many peer reviewed papers on the effects and the actions of The Council of Nicaea, try reading those and STOP Getting your Fiction from the internet. Sorry to inform you everything on the internet is NOT true including that guy who says he is a French Male Model.

To adjensen:: As to Dan Brown and all that i REPEAT i have no need to defend or abuse their work because it is either fiction or a theory that is NOT MINE. So i could care less. So repeating your accusations are
meaningless drivel.

Unless either of you have actual fact that says it is impossible then you just have an opinion, one in which i do not Share. There are now too many facts that state Joshua was married to Mary M. But for me common sense says this had to be because it was normal and the custom of the time.

Oh and by the way the original article and the peer review paper both state that the fragment is most likely from the papyrus of JOHN. But is not yet a fact until the current owner of these fragments bring them for testing and puzzle making. We just have to wait and see. Dr. King herself is a very cautious lady and she is circumspect so i feel her paper carries alot of weight.

To you and adjensen i have said it before if this is your belief then fine, do not bore me with fake science or supposition. You are allowed your belief as long as you do not try to force it on others with unintentional falsehoods and dubious references and other beliefs predicated on a misconception in the first place. in other words Eschew Obfuscation.

As for me i have an open mind and very very few beliefs. 3 of those are Joshua/Jesus died, rose and ascended. I have a very good idea that the Silurian and Shroud are Real. There are other things i have seen, so i know, and do not have the luxury of a childs belief, all the worse for me.

Originally posted by Hermit777
Considering Wiki is posted by non-professional people in archeology, anthropology and allied sciences and disciplines, i could care less what it says.

Then why did you cite it in your post here?

There are many peer reviewed papers on the effects and the actions of The Council of Nicaea, try reading those and STOP Getting your Fiction from the internet. Unless either of you have actual fact that says it is impossible then you just have an opinion, one in which i do not Share.

How about a link to a "peer reviewed paper" that states that the Council of Nicaea had anything to do with Biblical canon? Here's a nicely researched debunking of those claims. And here you can read the actual documents that came from that Council... nothing in those supports your claims.

There are now too many facts that state Joshua was married to Mary M.

What facts? If you think that zero facts are "too many", you have pretty low standards.

Oh and by the way the original article and the peer review paper both state that the fragment is most likely from the papyrus of JOHN.

You need to learn how to read. Here's what the paper you're citing says:

The letter states that a colleague, Prof. Fecht, has identified one of Mr. Laukamp’s papyri as a 2nd-4th c. C.E. fragment of the Gospel of John in Coptic. He advises that this fragment be preserved between glass plates in order to protect it from further damage. This fragment of the Gospel of John is now in the collection of the owner of GosJesWife, who acquired it among the same batch of Greek and Coptic papyri. (Source)

See that? "Gospel of John" and "Gospel of Jesus' Wife" are referenced as two separate things.

To you and adjensen i have said it before if this is your belief then fine, do not bore me with fake science or supposition. You are allowed your belief as long as you do not try to force it on others with unintentional falsehoods and dubious references and other beliefs predicated on a misconception in the first place.

Sorry, but in this instance, you are the one who is presenting fiction as fact. "Fake science"? Please.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Hermit777

Then why did you cite it in your post here?

To you and adjensen i have said it before if this is your belief then fine, do not bore me with fake science or supposition. You are allowed your belief as long as you do not try to force it on others with unintentional falsehoods and dubious references and other beliefs predicated on a misconception in the first place.

Sorry, but in this instance, you are the one who is presenting fiction as fact. "Fake science"? Please.

What you are doing is clear to anyone who can read. You are the one using phooney science.

1. I said i did not care about Wiki-post you set it up as an authority
2. Again an internet paper not Peer Review repeating the same lies over and over do not make them truths.
if ppl read the whole Paper it can be seen where she states it may have come from came from the Gospel of John, but she must see the rest of the fragments, cut and pasting out of context does not prove your point it only proves what you are. I have seen so many like you that quotes only what you and others of your same mentality say but it does not make it true. You also obfuscate and lamely misquote constantly on the internet this may be acceptable but not in the real world.

you are closed and small minded individual that will use any falsehood to try to convince people of your opinion.
and no longer worth my time.

For those that want to learn here are the links again:

www.hds.harvard.edu...

www.hds.harvard.edu...

www.hds.harvard.edu... Them_draft_0920.pdf

And because you like internet sources so much here is one to read as to the ramifications of the C of N and Emperor Constantine on the bible et al.

www.deism.com...

There are many more like this and of course Fanatic bible-thumpers who decry the truth, why for the simple reason that in the Gnostics there is no need for priests or go-betweens or a Pope. They state what is needed to be like the Master and purport to use his words, oh and they speak of reincarnation and many more things.
But the biggest sin is those writings would eliminate the need of a strong Central control, and that is all it is about controlling the masses and getting money.

Hermeneutics in action, is what everyone here has been watching and reading. This is a way of using words to interpret anything the Bible has always been the biggest target. By using words you can control people by interpeting things the way you want them to be. for more on this:

en.wikipedia.org...

Many books on the topic, in these you can see just how people have been manipulated for centuries, by the church and others:

www.amazon.com...=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Hermeneutics