Humans are soulless flesh machines governed by their internal programming.

reply to post by Alyssa


This reality that you are promoting is a barren wasteland of emptiness and abject suffering. Far worse than being paralyzed or blind. Far worse than the solitude in waiting to be loved even for a life time.

You have no idea of what it is you think you know in this belief that separates itself from all life in strength and in it's frailties. If you had a true glimpse of it truly, with the nature of our human condition in our struggle for our immortal souls to reconnect to the Source, you would understand that what you are proposing is a dead world. Depleted of everything living and depleted of all things Love.

Your proposed reality is and would be indeed a living hell in denial of all things human and all things life. It is deprived and voided of everything beautifull and those things painfull that propells us towards becoming better human beings for one another.

It would be an inhuman existence. There are no short cuts in life or it's school of learning without suffering a great and terrible penalty in the end.

It is strange that you are so separated from yourself, that you cannot see this very true and real thing that even you are. Just as we are meant to experience joy, we are meant to experience suffering and want. That is part of our evolution in this world.

You cannot become a better person by downloading a program.

I applaud you, op.

so rarely do I hear an opinion which is actually worth hearing!


I do always find it so revealing about the ATS membership that they imagine themselves to be in support of alternative viewpoints ...calling others "sheeple", and yet

the vast majority of this thread is filled with nothing but "BAAAAA, BAAAAAA"


transhumanism is the very reason I have selected biotechnology as a profession.

Why would we want to evolve further?

Because most people are fat, ugly, idiots?

reply to post by tgidkp


^^ judgmental and ignorant as well....
(it) Smacks of pride and hubris to me. Seems like you need to read up on some history about your "ideal" society that lacks societal values.

reply to post by Alyssa


Because it is not true.
We are miracles, each and every one of us with powerful gifts and potentials we don't even realize we have.

This is not a soulless bag of flesh....

Originally posted by tgidkp
I applaud you, op.

so rarely do I hear an opinion which is actually worth hearing!


I do always find it so revealing about the ATS membership that they imagine themselves to be in support of alternative viewpoints ...calling others "sheeple", and yet

the vast majority of this thread is filled with nothing but "BAAAAA, BAAAAAA"


transhumanism is the very reason I have selected biotechnology as a profession.

Sadly I don't think you or the OP are living up to your potential. You are magnetically attracted to similar thinkers and similar threads which is why you notice only the baaaa baaaa. The world must be an awfully bleak place to people who think like this. When you look for flowers you begin to see them. Not until you look though.

reply to post by newcovenant


I don't ever watch those shows and I have no desire to but I could listen to that little girl sing 24/7. Howie had it right---she's the voice you hear when you see the light! LOL Beautiful and almost unbelievable.

Thanks for demonstrating solid evidence against the OP.

it's funny how many of the "soul" crowd here sound so angry.

i just can't understand how people can think that anyone who doesnt believe are somehow devoid of care, morals and an appreciation for life. i'll admit "meatbag" sounds very insulting and was a poor choice of words but to throw pictures of a little girl up and accuse people of not being able to appreciate life is an appeal to anger.

and then theres the "oh you don't know what you're doing to yourself" condescending people who think just because they read a lot of books on ancient wisdom means they have a better grasp on life. tons of those old ideas have long been passed up, not because we don't want the truth but because they simply do not work.

i think it's hard to hear cherished beliefs being challenged but can you not take an objective look and consider the other side? i know there's going to be the people who say" no, YOU consider the other side!" but i'll go out on a limb to say that most of the "meatbag" crowd have been there and realized that it just doesnt fit with everyday observations. now i'll predict the " i observe god everyday!" people. what i believe you see is an outcropping of a mind evolved to have an innate appreciation for others in a social context and also for the aesthetics of nature all developed as a survival function.

does all that mean you can't revere the whole situation we are in? it simply is amazing that we are here and have the ability to be amazed and i leave it at that.

P.S i reall wish the OP would return to address some of the attacks on her character.

reply to post by homeskillet

what i believe you see is an outcropping of a mind evolved to have an innate appreciation for others in a social context and also for the aesthetics of nature all developed as a survival function.

I'll try to disagree without sounding angry or preachy

I can't prove it, but I and many like me have had profound experiences. I am not talking about God. I am not talking about seeing the light and all that. I am not a member of any religion.

As you say, that is what you believe. Well chosen words, because as you know by now I believe something different. Neither one of us has any evidence to disprove the others beliefs. So what is the solution? Ummmm

I honestly don't know.

I do know I have had experiences which can not ever be explained by science. Stuff you would not believe - well, I appologise if I am doing you a disservice - but I would fully expect you to suspect I was just making it all up to prove a point.

Impasse? I think so. But I am appreciating this new approach of talking about beliefs. Because in order to believe something which you cannot prove you have to have faith - and that is something we DO have in common brother!

Originally posted by nothingwrong

As you say, that is what you believe. Well chosen words, because as you know by now I believe something different. Neither one of us has any evidence to disprove the others beliefs.

first off, i want to say thanks for trying to tread lightly as this is a discussion and not an argument but let me address some stuff.

the thing is believe we do have at least some kind of evidence. there are many different studies with real world observances in the fields of neuroscience that would show you that the brain has a lot(if not all) to do with behavior . i prefaced my statement like that because i dont have the knowledge or eloquence to explain.

now, ill admit that it is possible beyond the brain there is some underlying god or spirit. but i dont have anything anymore to really convince me otherwise. and at this point i don't think its relevant or productive for me(or pretty much anyone) to live a day to day life.

I do know I have had experiences which can not ever be explained by science. Stuff you would not believe - well,

would you be open to a scientific explanation that would be able to recreate these experiences if one became available?

i know i'd personally be open to having a spiritual experience but somewhere in the back of my mind i would still question its validity or relevance to the grand scheme of my life.

The moment I first read the content of this thread, I said to myself, "the OP is going to get a lot of flack for this post." Even though I disagree with the notion that we are soul-less machines driven by our own programming, transhumanism is a very interesting idea.

OP - you're on the right path, but keep learning, researching and exploring with a mind that's open to more possibilities.

Yes - i'm a fan of the H+/Transhuman movement, and follow Ray Kurzwail's work on these subjects, as well as other medical breakthroughs which are rapidly progressing our society to lifespans of 500+ years old. Oh and to the people who say that we won't see this in our lifetime, you're wrong. The only way we won't see this technology breaking through in the next 20 - 40 years, is if our planet blows itself up first - which at the moment is a very likely possibility.

No to the OP again, I do agree that our personalities, experiences, and memories are the result of biological components. However there is an energy (electricity) which these components require to run, and to me - that electricity - is the spirit. One which is shared by everything that lives. That energy comes from somewhere, and seems to go somewhere when life and death occurs in living creatures. I believe that what most people consider the "spiritual plane" is the higher dimensions of our reality. The dimensions which can only be explored through mathmatics.

Anyone who has had an out of body experience, that they know to be the real thing, knows for a fact that they have a soul.

Sometimes I wonder if there are people without souls. Have some of them sold their souls? Is it possible to sell your offspring's soul?

Maybe we all have souls yet there are people out there trying to convince us otherwise.

There is a lot of lies and manipulation out there and the people behind it have agendas.

They don't want you to know your true self or your full potential. They want to keep you down and they want to control you.

And they are going to try to use technology to do it.

reply to post by IndieA


Most people have lost their soul. The soul is always here waiting for them to return. Return to source and the soul is found.
Grace (amazing grace) will guide them home.

reply to post by Alyssa


Are you saying we're zombies? Cool!

reply to post by Rubicant13


If you want to transend being human, stop being human and just be.
Be the unassociated being.
youtu.be...

I'm stuck between wanting to have a full sensory vacation at my fingertips, and not wanting anything plugged into my brain that can fool me so easily. Now, to influence me, you have to get past my natural skepticism and logical thinking. If it is directly routed to my brain, it by passes all that and makes me see what it wants me to see. Think I'll just stay the all natural me.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Ummm... I think that you missed the part where I said that I disagreed with the OP...

reply to post by Rubicant13


You also said that you thought transhumanism was a very interesting idea, so i provided an alternative method. A way to find that you are not human after all.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Exactly, I'm a spirt having a human experience.