The Accusations Are True ATS - I Do Have An Agenda And I Have Been Manipulating You! My Confession.

reply to post by tracehd1


This is where you lose me... other than my discourse describing ways that I could have been dishonest, or how others are - I was totally honest. And even in the parts of demonstrating dishonesty in the abstract, I was very much honest about my motive.

It seems you may be reacting to buzz words? Because you're truly preaching to the choir here.

~Heff

Im sad to see how some forum members seem bent on destroying the positive message of this thread with intentional misunderstandings of the message....

I would explain to you why you shouldnt feel offended if only Hefficide hadnt already done so a couple of million times by now... but you seem to have made up your mind already.

Time to get out and leave it to the trolls. It was a good thread though. Made me smile and enjoy ATS.

reply to post by Bodhi911


Don't get too upset. While I am certainly not referring to anyone here, Google Disinfo and you'll find that several of the top tricks for spreading disinfo having nothing to do with creating or disseminating it - but rather using trolling and logical fallacy techniques to silence it!

Its not enough to sell Kool Aid, if you want to rule a world - you also must poison the wells.

~Heff

honest (adj.)
c.1300, "respectable, decent, of neat appearance," also "free from fraud," from O.Fr. honeste (12c.; Mod.Fr. honnête), from L. honestus "honorable, respected, regarded with honor," figuratively "deserving honor, honorable, respectable," from honos (see honor (n.)). Main modern sense of "dealing fairly, truthful" is c.1400, as is sense of "virtuous." Phrase to make an honest woman of "marry a woman after seduction" is from 1620s.

Etymology
From Latin manus (“hand”).
[edit]Noun
manus (plural manus)
(obsolete) A hand, as the part of the fore limb below the forearm in a man, or the corresponding part in other vertebrates.
(obsolete, Roman law) The power over other people, especially that of a man over his wife.

I think Heff is genuine in his attempt and that is his point .

I can't believe the number of people criticizing the OP for this thread or denying the fact that they can be manipulated.

When I read the OP, I didn't get the idea that Heff was trying to come off as some superior master manipulator. I think the point is that manipulation is the act of making a comment or exchanging information with another person. Manipulation is not bad, it is simply a word that has been given a negative stigma because people have been manipulated in negative ways.

There is no one IN THE WORLD, that cannot be manipulated. In fact, I'd put money on every single one of us being manipulated DAILY. Everything you do, all of your beliefs, are a product of manipulation. Maybe I totally misunderstood Heff's OP but this is what I'm taking from it. We all are guilty of manipulating others whether we believe it or not. Agreeing or disagreeing with someone in a thread is Manipulation. You are forever altering the way that person perceives something on some level. Anytime you respond, you have been manipulated to do so. Even if you choose not to respond, you are choosing to do so for a reason. The choice of action is manipulation in itself because there was some factor that ultimately moved you in that direction.

Anyone that believes they are unable to be manipulated are most likely the easiest to manipulate. Just as the most intelligent do not claim to know everything, for they understand that they know very little.

I'm manipulating every single person who reads this and every one of my posts. Every single one of you that I've ever read responses by have manipulated me. For a forum meant to deny ignorance, there is an awful lot of it running rampant.

reply to post by ZiggyMojo


I actually wrote and posted this expecting backlash. To discuss the idea that something as simple as a billboard, or a smile, or a cute smiley face, written on the back of our dinner bill by that oh-too-cute waitress is to invite disaster because of ego.

Many people cannot face the idea that manipulation is commonplace and simple because, to do so, would mean a necessary redefinition of their own sense of self. Many think themselves too strong or too smart to get played.

The reality is that we all get played - and most commonly by ourselves.

Mirrors can be very troubling things when the reflection we are used to seeing is suddenly altered.

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Bodhi911

 

Don't get too upset. While I am certainly not referring to anyone here, Google Disinfo and you'll find that several of the top tricks for spreading disinfo having nothing to do with creating or disseminating it - but rather using trolling and logical fallacy techniques to silence it!

Its not enough to sell Kool Aid, if you want to rule a world - you also must poison the wells.

~Heff

I had an account here several years back, banging my head in the debates, until I realized that some people are very good at that. I couldnt do what forum moderators do here.

Thanks again!

Has anyone noticed that serious avatars get more stars and more respect, for instance, a picture of a tough guy with a gun, or a giant super hero. I usually view those guys as the ones with spindly arms and acne coated faces, sort of like the big truck, small penis guys. They are manipulating you with an image!
However, those avatars are bound to get more stars than me with my Oreo kitty avatar. (Oreo just walked onto my lap)
..............................
When I used to deliver produce I realized I could get free food at restaurants simply by commenting on how good it smelled, or looked, and if you appreciate it a lot and show it, they may give you more at another time.

People will serve you better if you look happy and if you don't look happy you attract crap into your life, so fake being happy, it'll make you happier.

TV commercials - mass manipulation. (the beast who had an image and could talk)

Everybody is a manipulator, some more, some less.
Me less so as I have a special gift (not) called ADD that lets me pay less attention and a short term memory that helps me quickly forget the manipulation that tried to happen.

Oh, and I lack emotion, or should I say in some ways I have less than normal, and more than normal in other areas. I like to think I am less emotionally manipulated, or I at least refuse to be worked on.

I wish that I could manipulate myself more often, for mo betta results.

Buy two bottles of ketchup for $3.50, so I get two, even if I only need one for $1.75.
Hell, if the price is right, I'm OK with market manipulation for the right price, ketchup is good stuff!

Alright, who the hell am I kidding, the point behind manipulation is to not let the manipulated know, so how do I know how resistant I am?
I don't know! They didn't tell me.

Heff you have failed!!

I already wanted a Budweiser before I even took an offhand glance at your thread.. Consider yourself thwarted..

Bacon anyone?

"And I have looked into the face of the force which put the idea in your head. You are bred and led yourself."

As I move closer to finish outfitting my boat and all my steps for me and mine to get as far from you and yours as possible to watch at a distance while you all move closer and closer to the crash that will lead to your tearing each other apart, I find it amusing how you all buzz around inside the cage that has been made for you. The fact that I move in and out of this box might make some think I am in the same box, same boat but to the contrary, I was never impressed; never trusted and it only got worse the more I heard you. Karma is inevitable and from my perspective, you deserve everything you get.

I suppose it is to be expected. Often times I like to believe that ATS is some type of haven for intelligence or self-awareness. Unfortunately it isn't the case, and I suppose a community built to deny ignorance is going to attract those who are ignorant.

I guess the backlash was a little more surprising than I had imagined it would be. I will say though, that your approach is among the most effective. It forces people to really reflect and see the change in the figurative mirror. The ego is a plague that can be found in all of us. I wish I could say I no longer have an ego, but I know that I do.. I've also learned that it is perhaps my biggest enemy.

Hopefully this thread will open some minds. Even if one person has read this and been enlightened then it is completely worth it. It's refreshing to see this sort of discussion, because often times I feel it gets buried under everything else.

I think some may be misinterpreting my comments concerning Heff's experiment. I think he has done a wonderful job in illustrating how persons in positions of "power" can and will manipulate. Even though this may have not been the intention its there for all to see. Heff down plays the influence that comes with the title moderator. Mods have the power to strike down comments and to ban and even if they don't have that power here on ATS they do on almost every chat forum out there. These factors bring in a preconceived notion as to what a Mod is, does, and can do. Mods also have the applause factor. Who doesn't like a big round of applause from the powers that be? I don't doubt Heffs sincerity but I still think that Heff has done more to shine a light on those who hold power and how they can abuse it as well as showing how the illusion of power can influence the rest of us.

Hey Heff, thank you for coming clean on the manipulation experiment. I may disagree with you at times but generally I find you a likable guy, errr did you just say you are manip...oh well anyway, I will be reading your posts extra carefully in the future. The question I have is, if what you have been posting if a social engineering experiment, how much of it is or was your true personal opinion?
The media is lying to us on a daily basis, and for what purpose? Clearly to corrale all of us into the control of a few extremely powerful individuals.
Hegelian dialectic in itself is a method of control. Antony Sutton calls it "conflict management". Look at what is going on today in the world. What a mess. Many here at ATS seem to intuitively feel that certain things are false flag and that some of the frenzy being whipped up has at least one component of deliberate manipulation by one or both of the major parties or other agent provocateur. Look how many frenzied protests have been attributed to spontaneous reactions or to something else odd, a red herring, such as a cartoon or picture. While the cartoon itself may be seen to push people into a frenzy, what is actually behind the pushing of that cartoon or picture or whatever into the forefront of people's awareness? I feel the riots in Islamic countries are being stirred up by provocateurs, but the anger already existed.
I think you have stirred up a good conversation about how we come to know certain people in our sphere of influence and they may not be exactly what we think they are.
In the 80's we used to talk about the Pravda Ru and how they manipulated the people for communism. Now our own media in the States is just as bad even though it may appear to be less communistic or should we say a bit more capitaiistic. It shows that control and manipulation may be achieved no matter what political style is used.
Thanks for an interesting thread topic.

reply to post by SuicideBankers

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by NiNjABackflip

 

I'm actually so skilled at it that I described myself as a mental health patient and you translated that into "master manipulator!

I should have shot higher and called myself an average guy. I could have started a cult!

~Heff

HEHE!! Best post of the thread.

There are times some of us enjoy being manipulated... or allowing it... or allowing the person who is trying so hard to manipulate us into thinking he actually did as a sort of reverse manipulation. Its really the only way I have managed to stay married this long in relative happiness ...and Ive only had to drug him once or twice.

Now lets talk about memes and manipulating a lg board segment to express a certain response by using them.....

reply to post by Toadmund

Has anyone noticed that serious avatars get more stars and more respect, for instance, a picture of a tough guy with a gun, or a giant super hero

I also have noticed changes in how people respond to me based on what I have currently as an avatar. Post a pic of a man and people think you are a guy automatically. Post a pic of a girl, fairie, something pink and people think you are a girl. Make your avatar a Christian symbol or saint, oh my talk about criticism.....it erupts like a volcano here.

I really love my pic of the Count St Germain. Nobody seems to really know who it is!

more and more people seem to coming to realisations like this one.

the simple fact that when you roll out of bed in the morning you are in a world of manipulation.

it seems to be one of the many major 'tools' being used on us.

accepting that these 'tools' are being used against you and accepting you cannot resist them because of your human nature is a big hurdle to jump.

however too many of us are becoming more aware of this. the 'tools' are FAILING now. this is major event in human development.

i suppose in my own thinking this isn't actually a fault but something that was due to come about.

i honestly think we are possibly on the edge of a major human advancement. its like we have almost completed this level.( if we can get through the current turbulance on the planet without all killing each other.)

otherwise someone, somewhere is gonna be pi ssed and realising we are getting too smart is gonna hit the reset button.

Originally posted by yeahright
reply to post by SuicideBankers

 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I don't know that the point of the thread was specifically about "authority", but that's an interesting observation. A famous psychological experiment including fake shocks was done by Stanley Milgram back in the '60s regarding that very thing. It had a side effect of calling into question the ethics of manipulating psychology subjects to that degree. Good read on multiple levels.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Indeed. I have some familiarity with this experiment(I saw a video) but never went much deeper into it. I remember being outraged that no one would stop the madness but had to quickly check myself when a friend asked me what if it was the president or a law enforcement official insisting that I carry out the act. That really hit home with me. Think I will look a bit deeper into it. Thanks for the link.

reply to post by yeahright


I think it is a revelation to a lot of people. Consider yourself privileged to understand the complexity and grandeur. Seeing it from the macro isn't as easy for some but once you do come to terms with it, you realize it is a necessity of life. We are who we are because of manipulation. I think the thing people really resist is the idea that they are not in full control of their decision or the actions caused by their being manipulated. People want to believe they are free of influence and manipulation when the reality is that NOBODY can be. Everything we do is the product of another action or influence. Manipulation perpetuates the system. It's not bad, it's not good.. It just IS.