The Federal Reserve, a Privately Owned Banking Cartel, Has Been Given Police Powers, with Glock 22s

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by LiberLegit

 

There is no setting the sheeple straight they have their heads to far up their asses for that to ever happen as it is painfully obvious by some of the responses to this thread. I gave up trying that many years ago. I can guarantee you I have been at this far longer then you and probably forgotten more then have ever known. But hey move along nothing to see here this is just like the security guards at target...

And to the idiots that keep referring to the Federal reserve as a government agency please educate yourself...

Is this a joke? This must be a joke. After I called you out by being insulting and childish in your post, you respond with more dribble? More name-calling? More claims of grandiose knowledge? So you gave up trying with facts and figures, now you just resort to calling people "idiots" and saying they "have their heads so far up their asses" when they are merely just trying to have a discussion with you? You my friend are the anti-thesis, the plague that gives your movement no credence, the keyboard mashing hero who barks big but has no bite. Disgusting. Not once have you provided a fact aside from just tossing out a few slanderous remarks and claims to your immense wealth of knowledge. You fail to see your own abundance of ignorance, your mind is just as closed as those you accuse. You know I think what you're posting about IS interesting, but the way you go about discussing it is like an infant whining for a new toy with his parents.

Now seriously, I mean it, whenever you're ready let's ACTUALLY discuss facts. I'm waiting for you to get all of your snippy angst-ridden remarks out of your system. Deep down I have a belief that you can discuss things like an adult. Now come on, let's see a post with an argument other than "well you're just stupid if you don't believe me, wah." Prove to us that you're even a little different than the usual Martial Law self-appointed savior stereotype.

reply to post by hawkiye


Let them have what they will. Anyone who has a weapon, would be wise to keep their mouth shut when the pass the laws. only the wise will keep them in a secret place and keep their mouth shut about it. Don't brag to people about how big your gun is or what kind. You will be sold out by the the ones who think they are being patriotic, even when there is no patriotism. the patriotism will be illusory like when Hitler was in rule. They are rat's to the Devil and are his unknowing servants.Thinking they are doing good for their country...but they are idiots and easily brainwashed. You will know them by their blatant stupidity.

Let them have their Glocks. When a revolution starts by the actions of these cowards who hide in high places, and are never seen by the public. Their laws, the Patriot Act 2 and the NDAA will matter zilch. During a war or revolution where you are fighting for your families and your lives...there are NO laws. The ones created by the ones you will be fighting...those will mean even less.

Not one of the fools claiming this is no big deal its like target or citizens arrests has even bothered to address the the points of it being codified into law, using tax dollars and haveing federal agent powers.. Even after I have repeated made the point of JUST HIRING SECURiTY.

Any company can hire their own security guards who can arrest and detain people on their property for cause why was this codified into the patriot act and US code hmmmm??? Stop whining and answer the questions or shut up.

And to the mentally challenged who keep whining about them being a private company get off your lazy asses and do a little research there's probably at least a half dozen threads here on this site explaining it not to mention all over the net...

Originally posted by hawkiye
Not one of the fools claiming this is no big deal its like target or citizens arrests has even bothered to address the the points of it being codified into law, using tax dollars and haveing federal agent powers.. Even after I have repeated made the point of JUST HIRING SECURiTY.

Any company can hire their own security guards who can arrest and detain people on their property for cause why was this codified into the patriot act and US code hmmmm??? Stop whining and answer the questions or shut up.

And to the mentally challenged who keep whining about them being a private company get off your lazy asses and do a little research there's probably at least a half dozen threads here on this site explaining it not to mention all over the net...

Oh, hahahaha, this is gonna be good. I thought the anger issues and name-calling were going to be the best part of this thread but now I'm thinking it may be you flaunting your 'University of Google' degree while not being able to back up anything you've written. I'll be back shortly to put the boots to this thread.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
You know this is from 2001, right?

This is a good point for the pearl clutching OP. So how many times in the last 10 years have these ol boys trampled rights? Gone into homes?

Perhaps you could quit being an arrogant passive aggressive bully for a second and do some research. Stop begging for flags and show us all the horrors of these fed police.

OP your tone has been pathetic in almost every response Ive seen you make. Someone disagrees and they are just a stupid sheep and automatically dismissed. Grow up.

While this is unconstitutional and illegal, it pales in comparison to the fact that Obama has signed a Presidential Directive earlier this year that allows him to declare martial law across the US out of wartime. Perhaps that's why they purchased 40 million rounds of hollow point bullets earlier this year which they can't use anywhere else in the world without breaking the Geneva Convention.

reply to post by hawkiye


Go to Page 4 and read my reply to you. Here, I'll make it easy for you...

My reply

Did you miss that one, or just decided to ignore it?

reply to post by hawkiye


No hawkie get off your lazy rear and Google. The Feds board of governors is elected by the POTUS and confirmed by the Senate. They are a quasi governmental agency only in that there are tiers with the lowest being privately owned banks. You really need an attitude check.

I doubt you even read the law that youre freaking out about. If you did you clearly didnt understand it. I get that Alex Jones is your only source of info, just remember not everyone else is so blind.

reply to post by hawkiye


Great research in finding this one. This is way out of hand for sure. I think this is an attempt to protect the board itself, not the Federal Reserve building or the money it prints. With all the discontent from the public with the Fed Reserve Bank they must have gotten a little scared.

I wonder how this police force dresses and how they ID themselves?

Originally posted by MissingRonnieR
Ok kids this is where Dad steps in. Federal Reserve Cops and Glock 22; s mean nothing. In the world of guns, this upgrade falls one notch above Mall Cop. Please stop with the panic and talk to anyone over 30 with a knowledge of firearms and a background based in something more dangerous than riding a bike without a helmet. When you hear that they have AR’s, body armor and something with the name Barrett in it, start to worry. My wife can empty a Glock 22 with a eight inch spread at seven yards and she has three kids, and works in an office.

edit on 20-9-2012 by MissingRonnieR because: (no reason given)

Ok Dad, start to worry...

Officers are certified to carry semi-automatic pistols, assault rifles, submachine guns, shotguns, less-lethal weapons, pepper spray, batons and other standard police equipment, including bullet resistance vests/body armor. Federal Reserve Police Officers have the same police authority as other uniformed Federal Law Enforcement Officers.

link

Ok, finished dinner and I don't have to get up early tomorrow. You could say I'm ready for a nice, civil - oh, ok, we all know where this is going.

Now, what Hawk may be saying is, "Go educate yourself, DUH!" but we all know what he means is "I have no idea how to respond to this."

Thankfully, Hawk, I don't have any hang-ups about doing the educating myself. So sit down and get something to drink because you're about to get schooled, kicking and screaming.

This may take a couple posts, so let me start at the lowest of the low hanging fruit that comprises your, uh, 'argument.' All of the quotes I'm drawing on here are from Hawkiye's various posts.

The Argument:

If this is this same as a citizens arrest then why was it quietly put in the patriot act and given all sorts of government sanctions etc.??? Why did they not just hire security guards like every other company? Why do they need special laws passed behind the peoples backs to make citizens arrests? Did any of you read the actual law? No of course you didn't but thanks for demonstrating why America is screwed because the majority of people are just like you and stick their goddamned heads in the sand while America and freedom is systematically dismantled...

All the fools claiming this is just to protect the property WHAT PART OF HIRING SECURITY TO DO THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? Why a new police agency with far reaching police powers?

Not one of the fools claiming this is no big deal its like target or citizens arrests has even bothered to address the the points of it being codified into law, using tax dollars and haveing federal agent powers.. Even after I have repeated made the point of JUST HIRING SECURiTY. Any company can hire their own security guards who can arrest and detain people on their property for cause why was this codified into the patriot act and US code hmmmm??? Stop whining and answer the questions or shut up.

Why can't the Federal Reserve just hire private security guards? Why do they need their own police force?

The Refutation:
First of all, this is a difficult point to argue without falling into Hawkiye's framing. In fact, the logic for his entire argument rests on a faulty conclusion - that the Federal Reserve is a private business.

Still, I'll do my best, and I'll address the above faulty conclusion in a later post.

Now, I'm employed by neither a security firm nor a government agency that requires security agents. However, I'll give my best (and hopefully most concise, given that my post is already near the character limit) explanation.

Imagine you work for, say, the US Mint. You print the all the physical, legal US coins across your 4 facilities. Obviously you need to protect your facilities and the assets within them; you wouldn't want any terrorists, or counterfeiters, or organized crime busting in, killing your workers and stealing the plates you use so they can set up their own press and print their own coins. Or, worse, blowing up one or more facilities so as to disrupt the currency minting process.

You could hire private security the way Hawkiye thinks you should, but you have your doubts about bringing in an outside company to guard your operations. No matter how well vetted they are, you have a lurking suspicion that they could easily be infiltrated if it got out that they were contracting with you, which means you could potentially be looking at a situation where you can't trust whether your own security is plotting to rip you off or not.

You wish there was a way for you to just have your own Mint staff as security; you can trust them because of your rigorous hiring standards. Unfortunately, none of them are trained in law enforcement. But there is a halfway solution! You can bring in some federal law enforcement officers! (Also called 'FLEO') They may not have worked in the Mint, but they're agents who have spent their whole careers in law enforcement. While the possibility is still there for corruption, you feel a bit more secure about bringing in some government-trained agents who have been in law enforcement for decades, rather than an outside company that could have ulterior motives.

FLEO are law enforcement officers who have gone through an accredited Federal Law Enforcement training program. After receiving their certification, they can go on to further train and serve in federal law enforcement agencies. To see just how many law enforcement agencies there are in the government, here's a simplified list on Wikipedia. It should give you an idea. What makes them different than, say, a regular beat cop?

I'll have to answer that in the next post, because I've hit my character limit. Stay put; I'll further elaborate on why agencies use FLEO

This is part 2 of my post explaining why the Federal Reserve uses trained police rather than private security contractors. In the first post I explained how private contractors pose a greater security risk to sensitive operations (creating and transporting physical money via the Mint, BEP and Fed banks, among others).

I also talked about 'federal law enforcement officers,' or FLEO, who are law enforcement agents who have been trained to work with the various government agencies that require a police presence to investigate crimes against them, protect their property and employees, and generally dissuade criminal actions against said agencies. Whether they're a Secret Service agent, FBI investigator, member of the Federal Reserve police, or even if they work for something like the Forest Service, that makes them a FLEO. It's a blanket term.

What makes FLEO so trustworthy and a better employee choice than a private contractor? What special training do they have?

That really depends on which agency they're going to work for. A few common aspects of their training includes in-depth training on personal officer security, as well as VIP protection and learning and application of federal and Constitutional (actual Constitutional law, too; not the pseudo-legal babble that passes for it in some conspiracy circles) law.

Furthermore, being certified by say, the FLETC (the network of training centers responsible for training these FLEO) establishes accountability and acts as a 'seal of quality.' Agents who become certified are assumed to have met a baseline of criteria making them eligible to handle sensitive and important duties. FLEO are held to higher ethical and professional standards than other law enforcement officers due to the fact that they're tasked with guarding some of the nation's most integral processes and people. These aren't jackbooted thugs who get off on kicking in the heads of civilians; these are principled officers who have trained long and hard to serve their country.

If a federal law enforcement agent is found out to be treating their duties with a lack of respect, or worse, if they're found to be actively subverting the government agency they were employed to keep safe, it reflects badly on everyone: the government as a whole, the specific agency in question, the FLEO trainers, and the entire law enforcement profession. The people who vet applicants to the FLETC are no slouches. They know it's in the best interest for everyone if they only bring aboard the absolute best of the best.

And that's why more government entities don't use private contractors as security: hiring their own police rather than buying contractors is a security measure. FLEO go through a rigorous application and vetting process, are highly trained and are very visibly accountable for any misconduct or crime that happens under their watch. No private contractor, no matter how noble their intentions may be, can match that level of integrity.

I may've not addressed one or two of Hawkiye's points. If I have to, I will in another post. If not, I'm moving on to more points. I feel like this has satisfied the question of why the government uses its own internal police rather than bringing in non-government companies for security.

Is this supposed to be news? Are ATS readers this misinformed or ignorant of current events concerning the political atmosphere surrounding our once great nation?

This isn't news. This was part of the Patriot Act passed in 2001. It's been a damn DECADE that this has been going on. Where have all you people been? If you are shocked by this, then you should be ashamed of yourself because obviously you haven't been paying attention, or simply choose to sit there behind your keyboard and pretend how "shocked" you are that our liberties have been quietly stripped away for A DECADE now.

I kind of regret turning this into a political post - but I find it disturbing how many people in here bashed on Ron Paul, labeling him "crazy" now sit here and pretend to be shocked about a law that was passed a decade later.
Ron Paul has been preaching about the stripping of our liberties since it's inception. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Words don't begin to describe how shocked I am right now. I cannot believe this is front page on ATS. Is this the typical latency it takes for people to begin to realize how corrupt our Government has become? If so, we are already doomed.

reply to post by Sink the Bismarck!

'University of Google' degree

That was funny.
Discriminating minds need apply.
?
!
.

reply to post by hawkiye


Then why have a Constitution? It's sad that it doesn't matter anymore and now it's just a useless piece of paper.

Ok, as tired as I am (it's been a long day) I know I have to follow up relatively quickly on my last posts. After all, I think I made a good case for why federal agencies employ their own police rather than hire from a security firm (hint: government agencies require security officers with specialized training that private companies just can't provide, as well as the fact that these agencies are more willing to entrust the security of the state and its assets to men and women that they feel were thoroughly vetted and examined by others in government, rather than contractors who may or may not have outside allegiances, falsified records or a fly-by-night mentality).

Of course, if you're buying into Hawk's framing of the discussion, none of this matters because the Federal Reserve is a private entity that's not associated with the government, and therefore they shouldn't have the aid of government-trained and sponsored police personnel. They should have to hire their security like every other business.

This, of course, is very, very, wrong. And in this post (and probably another one after this, due to character limit restraints) I'm going to debunk Hawk's premise that the Federal Reserve is a non-government business that's owned and operated by private citizens, and exists outside of government jurisdiction. There's enough myths surrounding the Fed to fill a book (like 'The Fed prints money out of thin air' or 'The Fed exists to turn a profit,' and no, I'm not talking about The Creature From Jekyll Island) but I'm going to try to stick to just debunking the 'privately owned Fed' myth without straying too far into others. Maybe I'll make a more dedicated thread for that topic at some point.

(Note: I'm going to include more links in this topic, so if you were disappointed with the lack of them in the last 2 posts, hopefully this will assuage you.)

Once again, all these quotes are taken from Hawk's posts to this thread.

The Argument:

The Federal Reserve, a Privately Owned Banking Cartel, Has Been Given Police Powers, with Glock 22s

it is completely unconstitutional. It gives government law enforcement authority to a private police force for a private company.

First because the federal reserve is a private corporation not a government entity the FBI would have no business acting as their private security firm and the government should not be spending tax dollars to act as security for private companies.

No on disputes they can have security, the problem is they are private so how come they needed to be codified into law?

And to the idiots that keep referring to the Federal reserve as a government agency please educate yourself...

Any company can hire their own security guards who can arrest and detain people on their property for cause why was this codified into the patriot act and US code hmmmm??? Stop whining and answer the questions or shut up. And to the mentally challenged who keep whining about them being a private company get off your lazy asses and do a little research there's probably at least a half dozen threads here on this site explaining it not to mention all over the net...

The Federal Reserve is a private business and, as such, the government should not supply them with federal law enforcement personnel.

The Refutation:
Whew, quite a lot of quotes there. I spent nearly all of my available characters just pasting quotes from earlier in the thread. Also, there's quite a lot of misinformation and misrepresentation going on as well.

First off, I will cede a partial point to Hawk (unlike him, I can admit when someone else is right). The Federal Reserve isn't a wholly public institution. But it's also far - very far from being a privately owned business, either. The real truth is that the Federal Reserve is quasi-public.

So what does being 'quasi-public' mean in this instance? What it means is that depending on what 'level' of the Federal Reserve system you're looking at, it can appear either as a private or a public institution.

The Fed system is divided into 3 levels. Starting on the lowest level, you have the member banks. Membership into the Fed system is mandatory for any bank with a national charter. State-chartered banks have the option to join as well, as long as they meet certain criteria for membership. Indeed, the member banks are privately owned. Note, though, that this isn't necessarily as scary as it might appear at first blush.

In the next post (I'll include a list of informational links and sources at the end of that one) I'll describe the rest of the Fed's hierarchy and make the case for why it isn't a private institution despite the fact it is comprised, in part by private banks. If I don't get around to posting the next half until tomorrow morning, just hang tight. I'm running out of steam tonight.

reply to post by Sink the Bismarck!

I hope everyone who's wringing their hands over this realizes that just about every branch and department of the government has their own dedicated police force. Realistically, it would be strange if an entity as important as the Federal Reserve DIDN'T have a security division.

The next thing we will see is Mcdonalds Police. But they really will only chase hamburglars.

Now that is sinister...

reply to post by Sink the Bismarck!


STB thanks for your rational and well composed posts on this thread.

Sadly, you can expect to be labelled a shill, a disinfo agent, sheeple, etc shortly (assuming you haven't been already), and to have about as much effect on changing the level of ignorance here on ATG about the Fed as a volley of snowballs fired at a German Battleship.

The Fed is private but they report to the gov and I'm not even American.

"The Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations."

And what is the primary purpose of the Fed's policies? To expand debt and leverage. These are the essential mechanisms of increasing the banking sector's wealth, power and control over the economy and the machinery of governance. Expand debt and leverage and you expand banking profits and thus the banks' political power.

For all I know, Fed can move outside the USA and still loan to USA .
Why ? Because ...

Only the U.S.A. has a privately owned central bank with broad powers that are independent of (and thus exceed) those of the elected government

Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws. — Mayer Amsched Rothchild & The Fed

Fed is a Gov owned ? Yeah right, I debt to myself few trillions. Yeah right.

Here a link for some "sense"
Some Financial Sense
Education for Americans:Who Owns The Federal Reserve?

Thank for sharing.

this some bull. i assumed they'd just have the police/fbi would provide their must needs. i suppose any excuse to possess more guys and weapons.

s+F