Evidence of God in physics , MIND BOGGLING

Originally posted by ImaFungi
is an "unimpressive series of accidents"...

The accident that wiped out the dinosaurs when an asteroid caused an extinction level event was pretty impressive, and it paved the way for mammals to rise up, leading to our existence.

However, we probably won't think the next asteroid that hits and wipes us out and makes room for other species is impressive, because, we like those accidents when they work in our favor, but not when they don't. We might have a chance of preventing that accident but I don't think we have a chance of preventing the next Yellowstone eruption, though that's not so much of an accident as the meteor impacts.

And it was impressive to see Shoemaker-Levy-9 impact Jupiter in 1994, did you see that? Had those hit Earth, they might have caused more extinctions than the dinosaur killer impact.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by 46ACE

 

ok,,, so wouldnt the existence,, in the past or eventual, of a God, be a natural occurrence,., especially if something like intelligence can exist,,, especially if abstract concepts such as morals, individuality, will, potential exists.,,.,.

"Natural occurance?" By that do you mean "inevitable"?

in inifinity is the best of the best and worst of the worst..,,. the highs and lows, bigs and smalls.,,. with all the time existence has existed,.,., whats to say that some form of intelligence has not established righteous reign over a section, or part, of a creation,,, as an experiment,, or as a reality,,,

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

(Arthur C clarke). Would that advanced product of the environment qualify as a creator "God" or just the great and powerful OZ!!!!!ruler(by force)of this dimension". Seems the criteria for"God" would be "the chicken or the egg". If your "God"didn't create this(our)universe ;does "He" report to a higher power?????

as our mind is the god of our bodies,.,. as our president/government/kings of past are/were the gods of our lawful and orderly constructed systems.,, why would there not be underlying code and law,, a God, or guide of reality.,,..,

Now you lost me..

if there is no god or creator of the universe,.,. can we try to brainstorm and think what the universe might actually be? can we think about if anything can ever mean anything,, if value exists,., if intent is meaningful or real,,. etc.?

No creator? Then IMHO the universe( i.e. nature) just IS.It is neutral; Neither beneficent nor malevolent; doesn't intervene on our behalf.and personally I'm O.k. with that. When my brain functions cease and I 'die" I fully expect the lights to go out.and that's it. I'll cease to exist (it's natural).

(am atheist, stated for the sake of my comment)

i also believe in intelligent design. but not done by any "god" figure(s)

I believe that in the very distant past, all plants and animals, and us peoples; were genetically designed to coexist and specifically inhabit this type of planet. likely based off of previous existing plants and animals elsewhere.
and this follows my belief that the planet itself was found a barren rock that was terraformed and prepared for life such as us to live on.

and these things were done by other peoples. or "aliens" i suppose.

I believe that a very random and lucky planet somewhere managed to evolve and sustain life like how many believe happened here. but it wasnt earth that came first. and we didnt come second, and we are not even the newest one perhaps.
those peoples from that planet planted us here for reasons unknown so far.

They perhaps evolved technologically, genetically, and socially to a point, that they felt it was their responsibility to continue to create colonies throughout the universe in this way.

---My Point---
I believe there is still room for both sides of the science/religion believe to be right and wrong in different ways.
Evolution was real, but that is not what went on, on earth (from the beginning)
and there perhaps IS an intelligent creator who created us and the "planet", but why does it have to be some spiritual force?

Originally posted by Bisman
(am atheist, stated for the sake of my comment)

Actually, you may think you are, but my opinion is that you are not based on your comment. You have simply substituted one religious belief for another, unless your beliefs are based on scientific evidence, and that apparently is not the case.

yeah i guess so.

i know im not for any of our known religions or their beliefs. i guess i mad up my own "spiritual belief" lol
and as for the science, well i know there is a hell of a lot we dont know yet. however im still not open to some "god" doing it all. i guess depends on how you define a god.

Originally posted by Bisman
yeah i guess so.

i know im not for any of our known religions or their beliefs. i guess i mad up my own "spiritual belief" lol
and as for the science, well i know there is a hell of a lot we dont know yet. however im still not open to some "god" doing it all. i guess depends on how you define a god.

If you take your post farther above this one and step back, again, and again,
"We were created by "others"...(Has somebody been watching"Prometheus" too many times?)
(step back: who created them?
others yet.
them?
others yet?
ad infinitum
finally you reach the macro level I thought we were discussing
the" ultimate creator" duh- duh-dunnnnne. "The ONE.."

or the theory of a planet naturally forming and sustaining life, followed by evolution again.

i guess its all the same debate no matter when it starts lol

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by Shuye
Evidence of God is all over, in all coincidences, in all balance, in all relativity. The universe is extremely intelligent, is everything working itself out by chance?

edit on 19-9-2012 by Shuye because: (no reason given)

I can't seem to be able to fly into space. Damn it, why do I not have wings and a space suite for skin. I should be able to breath under water also, but damned if I try I always nearly drown.

If everything was working out, I'd be superman. Did I sin or something, does this god not love me?

Seems like people that talk like you do, always just want someone to convince them their is a God.... Say some pretty dumb s*** and boldly claim God doesn't exists... In hopes someone will eventually come along and tell you a bunch of bedtime stories. You know what it is, if God wanted you to believe im sure he would, but maybe he really doesn't give a s*** about you. Lol.....

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by ImaFungi
is an "unimpressive series of accidents"...

The accident that wiped out the dinosaurs when an asteroid caused an extinction level event was pretty impressive, and it paved the way for mammals to rise up, leading to our existence.

However, we probably won't think the next asteroid that hits and wipes us out and makes room for other species is impressive, because, we like those accidents when they work in our favor, but not when they don't. We might have a chance of preventing that accident but I don't think we have a chance of preventing the next Yellowstone eruption, though that's not so much of an accident as the meteor impacts.

And it was impressive to see Shoemaker-Levy-9 impact Jupiter in 1994, did you see that? Had those hit Earth, they might have caused more extinctions than the dinosaur killer impact.

edit on 20-9-2012 by Arbitrageur because: clarification

I meant " unimpressive series of accidents",,,, in a way that by denying any "mystical" intelligence to nature,,, you are taking away to glory and impressiveness of what nature is and has accomplished and what it accomplishes.,.,., with a nonchalant " well i understand it so its not that smart,, its whatever, just a bunch of rocks and dust,,i could have done that,, theres no intelligent aspect to nature",,.,.

ok, asteroids and accidents in or out of our favor are interesting,,,, but like the ouroboros,, like the entire universe originating from a single point and of a single essence/substance,.,.. it makes little difference whether dinosaurs or butterflies are the main inhabitants of earth,,, it will come around again,,, its all always the primal energies experiencing itself as whatever happens to evolve out of the smallest realms and build itself up,,,,, yes you and I are currently biased,,, so we are fighting for team man,,, man is great,, awesome,,, could always be better,,,, could be worse,,,, man should want it to be better though,

Originally posted by Bisman
i guess depends on how you define a god.

Of course we all have ideas about that, but I actually looked up the definition to reply to these threads, and based on the dictionary definition, I think your gods meet most of the definitions, though perhaps not omnipotent, but still pretty powerful. But yes I understand it's not an organized religion, but that doesn't men it's not a religious belief.

Originally posted by 46ACE
If you take your post farther above this one and step back, again, and again,

You've got it.

That's the problem with the "This couldn't have happened by accident" reasoning, which relates back to the OP.

So if it didn't happen by accident because it's too wonderful, there must have been a more magnificent creator.

Well if the creator is that much more magnificent than creation, then surely the creator didn't just come from nothing?

There is no resolution to that line of thought. The creator has to have a creator too, ad infinitum, or if He doesn't, then neither does Nature.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Bisman
i guess depends on how you define a god.

Of course we all have ideas about that, but I actually looked up the definition to reply to these threads, and based on the dictionary definition, I think your gods meet most of the definitions, though perhaps not omnipotent, but still pretty powerful. But yes I understand it's not an organized religion, but that doesn't men it's not a religious belief.

Originally posted by 46ACE
If you take your post farther above this one and step back, again, and again,

You've got it.

That's the problem with the "This couldn't have happened by accident" reasoning, which relates back to the OP.

So if it didn't happen by accident because it's too wonderful, there must have been a more magnificent creator.

Well if the creator is that much more magnificent than creation, then surely the creator didn't just come from nothing?

There is no resolution to that line of thought. The creator has to have a creator too, ad infinitum, or if He doesn't, then neither does Nature.

that is a very understandable way of putting.,,.,.,. but can i ask and can you answer.,,.,., Can the concept or criteria of God, ever exist or be fulfilled,, in reality? Can you conceive of "God",,, and is it beyond your imagination for something like a "God" to ever exist?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


What is the point of natures existence? what does the existence of nature benefit? if there is a reason or if nature does something or anything,,,, then is that not the purpose/point of the existence of nature? if there is a point or purpose to the existence of nature,,, can it be thought that a purpose or point was intended,, or the point or purpose is meaningful or has value,, there is reason?


do the laws of physics tangibly exist in any way? or are the laws of physics the natural selection of cosmological evolution?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


When it comes down to it,,, noone has any idea what the universe is,,, where the whole exists,, when it exists, in ultimate time,,, why it exists,,, we know a tiny bit about how it exists,..,., But you did not create the universe,,, you have existed as a whole individual entity for the tiniest fraction of time in the history of all things that have happened and all things to come,,, what the heck do you know,,, why are you so sure what you think is correct.,,.,

Originally posted by elrem48
Quite the paradox, as Einstein was quoted, "That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

He's being pretty accurate here. When you really pin people down and get them to talk about "God," beyond the abstract and semantic notions of creation and infinity and love and so on, what they're really talking about is a feeling they get in their gut. A feeling of "vastness." It's a physiological response of mild excitement that animals get from anticipating something, or sensing danger. It's the feeling you get standing on the edge of a cliff, or of walking into a pitch-black room. A feeling of unknowing, or, basically, ignorance. An unease at not knowing something.

The thrill of ignorance. That's what God is to most people.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
But you did not create the universe,,, you have existed as a whole individual entity for the tiniest fraction of time in the history of all things that have happened and all things to come...

As far as I'm concerned, the universe didn't exist before me, and won't exist after I'm dead. Without me here to experience it, from my perspective, the universe doesn't exist. From each of our own individual perspectives. And really, isn't that the only one that matters?

Originally posted by Blue Shift
Without me here to experience it, from my perspective, the universe doesn't exist. From each of our own individual perspectives. And really, isn't that the only one that matters?

No, not if you have children.

But unfortunately too many of us think like you and our children and their children are inheriting a world of hurt from us, from national debt to global pollution and habitat destruction/extinctions.

Originally posted by dayve

Originally posted by winofiend


I can't seem to be able to fly into space. Damn it, why do I not have wings and a space suite for skin. I should be able to breath under water also, but damned if I try I always nearly drown.

If everything was working out, I'd be superman. Did I sin or something, does this god not love me?

Seems like people that talk like you do, always just want someone to convince them their is a God.... Say some pretty dumb s*** and boldly claim God doesn't exists... In hopes someone will eventually come along and tell you a bunch of bedtime stories. You know what it is, if God wanted you to believe im sure he would, but maybe he really doesn't give a s*** about you. Lol.....

BINGO!!!
I am still waiting for one of you to convince me there is a god, I'd like to believe, but nobody has been convincing enough and just talk out of their bungholes.
Still waiting for a religious person who can make sense enough to bring me to their side.
They all fail!
We don't want to be atheists and agnostics, it's just...that...nobody could prove anything, and it's logically very difficult to believe.
Aliens- logical, god- no

reply to post by winofiend


God already created us as 'perfect.'
The only problem is, you can't know what 'perfect' is unless you have experienced 'un-perfect.'
Therefore, God has created this universe, this reality, with these bodies, to allow us to experience, through 'stupid' mistakes and glorious moments. Once we learn (often through many lifetimes) all we need to learn in order to make the conscious, free-will decision to remember our connection, remember where we came from, and strive to spread love and unity in a pursuit to be One with God yet again...then can become 'perfect' again.
But until then, don't you enjoy being stupid?
Thank God for that ability.

reply to post by Toadmund


Then listen to the 'non-religious' people who have still found God and disavowed tradition or religion.

God is a person connection to the Earth, to all living beings, to all life sources, to all of creation as it is continuously manifesting right before our eyes.

Where did we come from? What was before the Big Bang? What was before that? And what was before that?
Nothing. Time is an illusion. Reality is a hologram. This life is made to experience and to learn lessons that encourage us to, based on our own free will, move back to the light, to the love, and to the appreciation of every moment of existence.
God is found in every rock, in every blade of grass, in every one we meet. God is the light, the vibration, the prana. You are One with God, created in God's image. You are the creator of your own world. Be grateful for that which you are able to experience within this lifetime.

And, if you want, look in to the work and books of Brian Weiss M.D.

Much love. I understand where you are. I was there for a long time. Say a prayer (what can it hurt, right?) for God to come in to your life. Challenge God if you will. Demand that if there is proof then something or someone be brought in to your life.
And if you have any more specific questions...message me.

Good luck!

I believe in forces.

Electricity is a force that can be found in every atom that makes up every molecule.
Everything has a gravitational pull (UNLESS OF COURSE GRAVITY IS REALLY WARPED SPACE SQUEEZING THINGS INTO MATTER) f'EN CAPS F'EN LOCK!!

GOD DAMN IT

Anyway, I believe in energy, it can be found in a flower, a rock, me, you, all that stuff.

Can these energies and their atoms they are housed in, can they store information, can they influence us, can we influence things? If a microchip can store information with silcon transistors (1 or 0 , on or off) wafers, is it really too far to believe that with the billions of atoms, with the stuff inside those atoms, more complicated than 1's and 0's, that a simple rock can store information?
Or dispense information?
Rock gods anyone?


Are ghosts the manifestations of information being projected from the walls off a house after storing information for years?

Who knows.