French Magazine Runs Cartoons That Mock Muhammad

...........aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here we go.

news.nationalpost.com...

A French news agency is reporting that four people were injured when a small package bomb exploded inside a kosher grocery store in a Paris suburb.

The Sipa news agency says that the small explosion was set off by two hooded people dressed in black who entered the store around midday and put a package inside, citing an unnamed police official and a Jewish organization. The two fled after throwing a rock through the shop’s window shortly before the explosion, the police official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to speak publicly about the investigation.

Originally posted by mikellmikell
Well at least the French are taking the lead they know sooner or later it's going to come to a head

Exactly. Tensions have been brewing for a long time there and this is just one more incident along the way. Things must get resolved over there before the air can be cleared.
It really boils down to do they want to live with the French as Frenchmen or do they want to be a separatist group that conveniently just lives inside France (and enjoys the social benefits)?
Assimilate or leave is my opinion on the matter.

Originally posted by DeadSnow

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

Well it's sort of like having an argument with someone and insulting each other, it's all fun and games until somebodies mother gets mentioned. I don't see how the magazine benefits by insulting people, If they did the same to Christians I would have the same response. It's about respecting each others beliefs.

respecting each others beliefs?? it is the muslim that threatens violence and death if you insult ANY part of their religion. those muslims that live in a western culture do not respect the freedoms of that western culture and its people. it's simple...those muslims that commit violence in the name of their religion, should be deported immediately.

Have you ever had a Muslim man threaten to kill you unless you converted? I think not. I guess you have your answer now.

Fortunately here in the west such uncivilised and atrocious behaviour is against the law and is not tolerated. Having said that, it is going on in many Islamic dominated countries/governments like Pakistan and Egypt where mob rule and fanatical beliefs allow this to happen.

They should be shown this picture:



If the president of USA can take it, they can take it too.

Originally posted by Pinke

Originally posted by detachedindividual
This is about the reality of the world we live in and the responsibility we all have. It is incredibly irresponsible to be printing this kind of thing, in the middle of the turmoil already engulfing numerous nations.

I responded your post fairly early and I've read your posts since then.

I understand what you're saying that we don't live in a world where this type of thing is tolerated yet ... but I think there is only one way to live in that world, and that is to create it.

Yes, you could say that people will die because of this ... but equally would you say the man in the white shirt that stood in front of the tanks in Tiananmen square caused a massacre?

I think there are some people on our planet that would like you to think it's irresponsible to make fun of them. The reality is, it's irresponsible for them to hold the world ransom to their ideals whilst simultaneously judging everyone else's. .

I agree, but we don't live in that reality. That's it, we do not live there yet. Right now, this cartoon is going to cause death and destruction across the world, and those who created it make some money.

As we don't live in a reality where people just ignore what offends them, are the creators of this cartoon and the owners of that comic going to feel any guilt for the violence that the publishing of their cartoon causes?

That's the issue for me. I agree that they have the right to publish what they want, but with that right comes responsibility and common sense. They have chosen to risk the lives of thousands of people for money. That's the fact of the matter.

People can defend freedom of speech all they like, I will support freedom of speech. But I will not support a comic abusing their freedom of speech and risking lives because of their own greed.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

Then those hundreds of thousands of people need to move to another country.
It's bad enough the way our governments steal our freedoms now we have to give them up for immigrants?

Sounds like the want a culture war, they should be careful what they demand. And if the cartoon offends them, they are free not to read it.

Millions have died to leave us the freedoms we supposed enjoy.
So we should give them up so a few hundred more won't die?

edit on 19-9-2012 by Asktheanimals because: added comment

No, listen to what I am saying!

Why is it so hard for people to read plain English?!

I agree with you, it is wrong. I am not suggesting that we should give up freedoms or that these religious fanatics should be allowed to dictate anything in our countries.

BUT

This doesn't change the fact that this will cause massive violence and civil unrest, and all because of the decision to print something that they KNEW would cause it!

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have printed it to placate anyone. I'm saying that the safety of others should be priority, over and above their desire for attention!

They're not making a valid statement. This isn't journalism. They are not being sensible or level headed. They knew what this would cause, and they have chosen to pour more oil on the fire for nothing more than publicity.

Once again, I AGREE WITH THE SENTIMENT HERE! These religious crazies should f off to a country where freedom of opinion and expression is not permitted. If they don't like the freedoms we have in our societies they shouldn't be living here.

What I am saying is that the right to print something does not automatically remove responsibility for it. You cannot just ignore common sense and REALITY - however horrid that reality is - because you want to piss people off!

This is about the reality of the world we live in and the responsibility we all have. It is incredibly irresponsible to be printing this kind of thing, in the middle of the turmoil already engulfing numerous nations. I agree with you that it is wrong to restrict freedoms, and I am not suggesting that we should. I am saying that people should be responsible, and think about the consequences of their actions before they use their freedoms for purposes other than genuine debate.

Is that clear enough? Do people know what I'm saying or is this going to get more responses of "you're supporting them!!!!!"

I've tried to explain it, I can't help it if people cant read a post and actually comprehend English.

Can you accept that all of the above is JUST YOUR OPINION. It is not the truth, it is just one perspective on a bunch of circumstances.

You have absolutely no idea of the motives of the cartoonist, (unless you have personal conversation with this person(s)) so you are making assumptions.

With some flexing of the mental muscles (and a bit of poetic licence) one could argue that provoking more displays of insanity is actually a responsible course of action.

I'm not expecting much agreement here, and call me stupid all you like, but I'm asserting you'll find value in playing your own devil's advocate here and in any other situation where you have a strong opinion.

Bottom line for me: civilised people don't kill people over opinions about words and drawings. That's my opinion, you could even say it is a tenet of my faith, and I'm not going to murder you or any of your friends or colleagues if you disagree with me or even ridicule me or my ideas.

And if I do start getting all violent over my mental identifications, I'll hope saner heads can come to my rescue and remind me how much of an ass I'm being. If they choose to do that by continually mocking my fragile sense of identification, I won't like it, but the saner part of me (you know, the one that knows we are all part of the same human family) will cheer you on.

reply to post by ronnypeppers


This can't be about the cartoons, if it was it's simply stupid. I did a quick search on Google for Muhammad cartoons and it came back with about about 8,590,000 results under the web search and 2,440,000 results under the images search. Some of the cartons dumb, some of them infalmmatory and some of them downright ignorant. So what is the real deal here? Use the cartoons as an excuse as to why all the muslims are pissed off and revolting so that the PTB can start another pointless and ridiculous war?

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Good point. I thought this was actually quite funny in a tongue in cheek way:

www.israellycool.com...

because it's a cartoon mocking cartoon controversy, not because of the details.


and this one: www.wonkie.com...

If one may be so bold,Ithink this sums up many feelings









AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER DOES IT AGAIN!!! | Silents Speech


silentsspeech.wordpress.com/.../australian-prime-minister-does-it-agai...


Quote: ‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.

“I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. ‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’ We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!’

‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. ‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’

‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE‘.’

‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’

Peace

Originally posted by RogerT3
Can you accept that all of the above is JUST YOUR OPINION. It is not the truth, it is just one perspective on a bunch of circumstances.

You have absolutely no idea of the motives of the cartoonist, (unless you have personal conversation with this person(s)) so you are making assumptions.

With some flexing of the mental muscles (and a bit of poetic licence) one could argue that provoking more displays of insanity is actually a responsible course of action.

I'm not expecting much agreement here, and call me stupid all you like, but I'm asserting you'll find value in playing your own devil's advocate here and in any other situation where you have a strong opinion.

Bottom line for me: civilised people don't kill people over opinions about words and drawings. That's my opinion, you could even say it is a tenet of my faith, and I'm not going to murder you or any of your friends or colleagues if you disagree with me or even ridicule me or my ideas.

And if I do start getting all violent over my mental identifications, I'll hope saner heads can come to my rescue and remind me how much of an ass I'm being. If they choose to do that by continually mocking my fragile sense of identification, I won't like it, but the saner part of me (you know, the one that knows we are all part of the same human family) will cheer you on.

I'm not stating that this is the *right* opinion. This is MY opinion.

And, once again, people are not comprehending what I am saying, they are looking at any discussion other than complete condemnation of the entire Muslim world as some form of defense of their violent action. That's not what I'm saying.

I am not defending those causing violence by also questioning the motives of those printing these inflammatory images.

I give up on this, I can't make it any more clear than I have. People are going to continue to ignore what I'm saying or make it into something it isn't.

Unlike most here, I can condemn the violence by these religious extremists AND condemn the obvious incitement by this magazine.

As a white person with a Christian upbringing, having been conditioned to "turn the other cheek" my entire life to the never ending barrage of reverse-racism and anti-religious sentiment/art/commentary thrust upon me by non-whites and non-Christians, I'm struggling to see what all the fuss is about.

Originally posted by cody599
If one may be so bold,Ithink this sums up many feelings


AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER DOES IT AGAIN!!! | Silents Speech


silentsspeech.wordpress.com/.../australian-prime-minister-does-it-agai...


Quote: ‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.

“I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. ‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’ We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!’

‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. ‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’

‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE‘.’

‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’

Peace

Kudos to australian PM. That's what all western countries need, a politician with big nuts who is not afraid to speak the truth and stand for what he believes on !!!

reply to post by detachedindividual


Fair enough.

If people are inciting violence for financial gain or egoic self aggrandizement, I'm in general agreement with you.

I cannot make those claims about cartoonists who draw pics of mohammed so I choose to defer judgement on that side until I speak personally to the artist.

I'm not big enough to offer the same courtesy to people who murder over a perceived insult to something they identify with. Perhaps I have some more work to do on my own prejudice.

This is a good thing, and needs to be done by every country on earth.
Not to insult islam, but to make the radicals see some perspective...that they cannot control the worlds thoughts, that just because something is offensive doesn't mean you should go off your head.

Thank you France for standing against those whom would attempt to control our minds and expressions. It must get worse, but it will get better..and if the world community did this, not just the west, but all over, then new rules would come in...people wouldn't care about it and simply think it childish and stupid verses a excuse to murder someone.

reply to post by SaturnFX


That isnt what the Quran says. You will pay tribute, submit, convert, or die. If that occurs, then you are to live in a Utopia punishing sin of your fellow Muslims.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

That isnt what the Quran says. You will pay tribute, submit, convert, or die. If that occurs, then you are to live in a Utopia punishing sin of your fellow Muslims.

Bible says a bunch of nonsense also. stone people you see working on sundays, stone adultress's and such, etc..
Religion grows out of it...typically from being overwhelmed (too many sinners, not enough stones) that they finally cave and make religion a personal thing verses a world standard.

Islam basically needs to grow up. Christians did it, Jews did it, now its their turn.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Hm, thought this thread was about Muhammad, guess i was wrong. Oh well. Stupid me. If i remember correctly. I referred to Islam, and didn't even mention my Christian faith. However, you attacked my beliefs, for whatever, because i mentioned Islam. Thanks. Very kind of you. I am trying not to derail the thread.

Christians didn't grow up by the way, nothing about the Christian faith has changed, except for the fulfillment of the old testament (Torah) by Jesus, giving us a new covenant that is better.

Not to mention, the way people lived back in those days is considered near fantasy today. In those days wars occurred yearly and was the rape and pillage of everything or complete annihilation and then they took your spoils, ethics were clearly different from what they are today. However, the new testament is absolutely perfectly inline with modern civilization. It was way before its time.

Originally posted by thePharaoh

Originally posted by khimbar
Well done the French. Good for them.

cool...then i hope its you that feels the wrath and not innocent ambassadors trying to help you sleep comfortable.

good for them???? how, who , what, when, why and WTF.....seriously your morons...

Yes, good for them. Standing up to bullies. Good for everyone. I loudly applaud them doing this.

Death threats over books? Death threats over cartoons? The ones who utter such things in the name of their religion are cowards beneath contempt.

And who is helping me sleep comfortable exactly?

And my morons what by the way?

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Hm, thought this thread was about Muhammad, guess i was wrong. Oh well. Stupid me. If i remember correctly. I referred to Islam, and didn't even mention my Christian faith. However, you attacked my beliefs, for whatever, because i mentioned Islam. Thanks. Very kind of you. I am trying not to derail the thread.

Christians didn't grow up by the way, nothing about the Christian faith has changed, except for the fulfillment of the old testament (Torah) by Jesus, giving us a new covenant that is better.

Not to mention, the way people lived back in those days is considered near fantasy today. In those days wars occurred yearly and was the rape and pillage of everything or complete annihilation and then they took your spoils, ethics were clearly different from what they are today. However, the new testament is absolutely perfectly inline with modern civilization. It was way before its time.

edit on 19-9-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

The thread is about Muhammed and more importantly, how islamic folks respond to things like movies, cartoons, etc.
I was demonstrating that religion grows up over time. islam is not growing up fast enough.
Christians used to slaughter people, in the name of christ. They eventually grew out of it
Jews also used to...they grew out of it.
Islamic folks are slaughtering other people for their own belief system..they need to grow out of it like the rest of the grown up religions if they want to be taken seriously.
People now become christians or jews not out of fear of the religion, but for love of it. A person growing up in a christian area can simply choose not to be christian...do that in islam and you risk having your head chopped off...fear for your life should not be a compelling reason for joining a religion...and until islam figures that out, they deserve to be mocked.

Not all, or even most, islamic folks disagree with this statement..but they really need to silence their idiots, and remove from power any religious influence...the west figured this out, that when religion and politics become bedfellows, only horrors can become of it.

I did not insult your belief, or anyones belief. I insulted how -humans- used their belief to hurt others..and will always point that out. If your belief is that you can use religion to threaten and murder people, then yes, I insulted you as you deserve every insult..but I don't believe that is your belief..so, stop trying to look for a insult where there is none. This is coincidently also the problem with islam today..seeking out a insult where there is none to their personal belief...only to their reaction.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
...........aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here we go.

news.nationalpost.com...

A French news agency is reporting that four people were injured when a small package bomb exploded inside a kosher grocery store in a Paris suburb.

The Sipa news agency says that the small explosion was set off by two hooded people dressed in black who entered the store around midday and put a package inside, citing an unnamed police official and a Jewish organization. The two fled after throwing a rock through the shop’s window shortly before the explosion, the police official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to speak publicly about the investigation.

Although I fully expect there to be violent backlash and protests and whatnot, lets not jump the gun and suggest everything that happens is because of this. These people could have had an issue with the owners themselves, or competition store, etc...
Chances are it may be relevant, but not certain, and not even relevant outside of doom fetish news.