Did Jesus evolve into the Christ? Past lives of Jesus.... And let's talk about the Freemasonry too!

reply to post by MamaJ


Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

In light of scripture to the contrary, I don’t understand this talk of literal reincarnation in a Christian context, unless I’m completely misunderstanding you.

That said, some of what you say is correct, though I do believe that other things that you say/connect are not true. I will not debate that with you, but I will share commonalities with my religion and some of what you say.

For example, the Early Church Fathers very much understood the concept of theosis, which literally means, deification or divinization. It is the process of being united with God. It is literally what we consider salvation- participating in the life of God/the Holy Trinity. This is not the same thing as apotheosis, which is becoming like God in essence.

St. Athanasius: ‘God became man, so that man may become like God.’

St. Irenaeus is quoted in Against Heresies as saying, “…The Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.”

We also believe this view of theosis to be upheld by St. Paul. St. Gregory Palamas and St. Maxiumus the Confessor also believed in theosis.

In Orthodox Christianity we view the journey toward theosis as being helped by the practice (praxis) of different things- especially the regular partaking of the sacraments, and the prayer of the heart, and the practice of Hesychasm.

We believe that humanity was created to commune with God and attain theosis. To go against what they were told by their Creator was a choice they had and did make- the consequence being that death entered the world. Humanity- before the fall into sin (missing the mark)- was created with the potential to become more.

Interestingly, it is a pious opinion in Orthodoxy that even if Adam and Eve had not sinned- and death had not entered the world- that Christ still would have come in the flesh in order to help us attain theosis. Plus, it wasn't too late for Adam and Eve- even then. In the icon of the Resurrection- Christ is depicted trampling the gates of Hades and lifting Adam and Eve from their graves. Christ destroyed death. It is even mentioned in the New Testament how after the Resurrection- many of the righteous dead were resurrected and appeared to many people. Like Adam, we are dead in our sins, but through Christ (the New Adam) we are brought to life (where we were once dead in our sins).

I suppose you must differentiate between literal death and the paradox presented to us of being dead in sin and alive in Christ.

Anyway, this is heavy theology that Western Christianity has rejected, as it delves into the idea of the essence and energies of God. I believe you may be interested in the mystical theology of Orthodoxy though. You may, if interested, want to look into reading the Philokalia.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Spread your hate elsewhere.

Hell and your judgement has nothing to do with this thread.

This is exactly why I dislike religion, it has to be their way or no way.

I was raised Christian with a little Catholic thrown in the mix. I have read the Bible more times than I can count, and each time I do it means something different to me. However, being in a mixed religion family I felt torn. Why did it only have to be one certain way? Why could their God not be mine and vis-a-versa?

Many battles are fought from stubborn minded people trying to shove what they believe the Bible means down someone else's throat. The thought that they must save everyone from their ignorance even if they have to kill them to prove their point. Why does it have to be like this?

God to me is love and peace. Jesus walked this Earth not with grenade in hand, but love to any and all. He did not judge, he did not turn his caps lock on and bold his letters. He preached his word and moved on. He simply let each person make up their own mind.

Yeah he tossed tables at the local trading spot, but he was upset, so what. He taught with love and respect peacefully.

Jesus to me is love and peace. He wants us to unite and ascend to his father's house.

God wants us to respect his creation. The birds, the bees, the trees, and the beetles that fly into my hair at night and piss me off, everything you see. What we are doing to his creation is abominable. Imagine how his heart bleeds when he sees his children fight over who is right about him. When a belief in him, (and by him I mean all gods as I believe they are all the same one just different names), tears his children apart. Parents hate to see their children fight, imagine that times a few billion. Heart tearing to be sure. Yet he continues to love.

Sorry about the long winded speech. What I am trying to get at here, is that Mama opened her heart and shared it here seeking truth and answers. (Good for her to even look deeper instead of sitting in a church pew every Sunday and claim to be the best Christian and shove her beliefs down others throats.) She with love asked a question and offered her "theory".

If you disagree, that is cool, but could you peacefully offer your advice and calmly "teach" her why you "believe" her to be wrong. Do you think Jesus would honestly brow beat someone for not seeing his way?

Ugh.. I would give anything to actually see Jesus speak. I can only imagine how moving it was.

Was he reincarnated? I don't know. Mama, I really would love to see you Wed morning and delve a little further into this. You will find the Masons aren't as secretive as you think. They love to teach others and will share just about anything you ask. (They even joked about the big gold building being built by Solomon Construction next door as their secret hideout, haha.)

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

reply to post by LeSigh


This is a contradiction to Jesus word and thats what I personally have chosen to understand and go by.

Suit yourself and believe what you may.

Its all speculation and the interpretation is debatable as I have done so.

I wont quote all the scripture that indeed contradicts.

The seeker will either see it or they wont.

Its pretty clear from where I stand.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

reply to post by LeSigh

 

This is a contradiction to Jesus word and thats what I personally have chosen to understand and go by.

Suit yourself and believe what you may.

Its all speculation and the interpretation is debatable as I have done so.

I wont quote all the scripture that indeed contradicts.

The seeker will either see it or they wont.

Its pretty clear from where I stand.

That you only responded to that part of my post proves you didn't read anything else. I was looking for a discussion as I believe you mentioned the idea of deification earlier. I was attempting to look for commonalities instead of focusing on where we diverge.

Oh, well. I'm done here. No worries. Peace.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

You dont know me, you dont know how I live at all. Dont think I have not studied my bible and scripture and found a different way to view it.

Reincarnation is ALL IN IT. You dont see this though. SO be it.

The problem is reincarnation is not Biblical.

It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment. (Hebrews 9:27)

Eastern Religions teach reincarnation it is a false teaching, not something that can be found within Christianity although some would like it to be. If you are going to claim these things then back them up with scripture.

the same thing you preach is the same thing I was taught. It never set well with me because my heart is loving and not filled with the hate.

Sorry if that offends you in such a way to cast me into the pit.

There are many references to reincarnation and tonight I am a bit stubborn and quite frankly unwilling to copy and paste all of it for you. My kids are hungry and I have had a hard day at work.

Had you read the Bible like a book over and over, researched its history and taught yourself you may find these scriptures where it indeed speaks of rebirth and transformation. One has to get out of this world and into the holy spirit.

Holy Spirit does not lie to your heart and is not lead by men.

Men will steer you wrong.... and have..

Be careful what you spit out..... it will come back at ya.

Damn me all you want. I imagine this is the same stuff Jesus went through when he was preaching the same thing.

reply to post by LeSigh


I did read it... im a bit tired tonight and have had ... a day.

Im sorry, I dont mean to offend you.

Originally posted by BrianG
Also Hell might hurt at first, but just as in life you will get used to the pain in no time

Why does it have to be so "trumped up" to cast such fear into people?

I am good because I WANT to be not out of fear of going to hell !

The Bible says there is not one that is good except Jesus. Because all humanity has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. You cannot define what "good" is without some kind of moral standard. God gave Moses the ten commandments in the Law. Hell is eternal torment, Jesus describes hell as like an Undying Worm in an Unquenchable Fire. If you do not believe me I can point you to the scripture.

Jesus said in more than one passage.... stuff like....

"I was sent here by my father, after I suffer I will go back to my father that sent me." He didn't say he was from some other former life.

"He also made claim that he was almighty God". So he's not some created life force. He's always been.

Freemasons all the lower ranks don't know any better, but the highest ruling ranks know and follow Lucifer. This has been confirmed by many freemasons and ex members.

I don't know what else to tell you.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by LeSigh

 

I did read it... im a bit tired tonight and have had ... a day.

Im sorry, I dont mean to offend you.

No worries.

reply to post by Doodle19815


Thank you and yes, I will be there Wed. morning.

Its all in the eye of the beholder and interpretation is debatable.

Jesus asks us to seek. Says he is within and I believe it. My heart tells me there is more than what I was taught... so be it. Does not mean Im going to hell.

I appreciate the words of love and unity. xoxox

Originally posted by LeSigh

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by LeSigh

 

I did read it... im a bit tired tonight and have had ... a day.

Im sorry, I dont mean to offend you.

No worries.

What was your main point do you think?

Im really sorry.... I re read it and dont know really what to say as I am just so tired tonight I can barely think.

I felt a little taken back with the hell damnation and felt attacked by the other poster and when you said you didnt understand the idea of reincarnation I was lost. Again, so sorry.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by LeSigh

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by LeSigh

 

I did read it... im a bit tired tonight and have had ... a day.

Im sorry, I dont mean to offend you.

No worries.

What was your main point do you think?

Im really sorry.... I re read it and dont know really what to say as I am just so tired tonight I can barely think.

I felt a little taken back with the hell damnation and felt attacked by the other poster and when you said you didnt understand the idea of reincarnation I was lost. Again, so sorry.

No problem. I thought I had read earlier in the thread about deification. I was simply sharing that some Christian groups also believe in it- though maybe not in the way that you do. I was simply focusing on potential commonalities instead of divergences. Most are unfamiliar with Eastern Orthodox mystical theology. Even our concept of heaven and hell diverge from what you're used to. That's all.

You don't have to respond back. If you do- you can when you're feeling more on top of things. As I said, no worries. It's easy to get confused on-line and misunderstand. What's clear to me isn't something I'm always good at communicating anyway. Peace.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

Spread your hate elsewhere.

Hell and your judgement has nothing to do with this thread.

No hate here. Just exposing your falsehoods through the word of God.

You have spoken all manor of evil against Jesus Christ. Do not be surprised if you get a response from the Christians here at ATS. If you think we will sit idling by while you deceive people with your false gospel then you thought wrong. I expect though that this is why you made the topic in the first place.

God did not speak in english

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

Spread your hate elsewhere.

Hell and your judgement has nothing to do with this thread.

That was a perfect example of why I believe that you, and people who have a message similar to yours, need to just drop the bible.

Is there some unique message in the bible? You could probably wring the same message from just about any old group of stories. If not, write up something new, which will not offer a chance to misinterpret. They will probably still do it but it won't be off by that much.

reply to post by MamaJ

Sorry if that offends you in such a way to cast me into the pit.

It is not my job or place to cast anyone into the pit nore do I wish to see you end up there. But if you continue on with this rebellion against Christ then truthfully you will experience it for your self because of your own doing.

There are many references to reincarnation and tonight I am a bit stubborn and quite frankly unwilling to copy and paste all of it for you. My kids are hungry and I have had a hard day at work.

Because you do not have any proof for what you claim nore any evidence to support these heretical teachings. If your kids hungry don't you think you should do something about that before trying to convince people Jesus is Satan and the rest of your evil lies?

Had you read the Bible like a book over and over, researched its history and taught yourself you may find these scriptures where it indeed speaks of rebirth and transformation. One has to get out of this world and into the holy spirit.

I really doubt you have read it over and over. Because I know the Bible is the infallible word of God I do not interpret it how I thing it should be. I let the word of God speak for it self. Jesus Christ is the word made flesh. If there is something I'm not sure about I go to him and seek council. When we trust ourselves for answers all we will end up with is error.

Men will steer you wrong.... and have..

That is what happened when you trusted your self and mans flawed philosophy instead of trusting the infallible word of God the Bible as your final authority.

Be careful what you spit out..... it will come back at ya.

I take responsibility for what I say. There is nothing that is not seen by the Lord Almighty.

Damn me all you want. I imagine this is the same stuff Jesus went through when he was preaching the same thing.

Where have I "Damned" you? I have not done anything of the sort. Jesus preached about Hell almost more than anything else. That is something you New Agers do not like to fathom.

reply to post by MamaJ


You know MamaJ, Christ alluded to this when he talked with Nicodemis(sp) the first time. There is a clip on a thread on ATS about it.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

Spread your hate elsewhere.

Hell and your judgement has nothing to do with this thread.

That was a perfect example of why I believe that you, and people who have a message similar to yours, need to just drop the bible.

Is there some unique message in the bible? You could probably wring the same message from just about any old group of stories. If not, write up something new, which will not offer a chance to misinterpret. They will probably still do it but it won't be off by that much.

edit on 20-9-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

HA! Thanks for making me laugh, I needed it. lol Im still laughing.

I can totally understand why one would be an atheist or drop the Bible like hot toast.

I do understand!

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by Doodle19815

 

Thank you and yes, I will be there Wed. morning.

Its all in the eye of the beholder and interpretation is debatable.

Jesus asks us to seek. Says he is within and I believe it. My heart tells me there is more than what I was taught... so be it. Does not mean Im going to hell.

I appreciate the words of love and unity. xoxox

You are deceived by your own feelings and thoughts. Hell and Judgement is something Jesus taught about.

You cannot claim to love Jesus but accuse him of being Satan at the same time.You only contradict your self.

Originally posted by MamaJ
If he evolved then maybe, Jesus is our god Lucifer ( also son of god) who enables us to project LIGHT whereas we see matter entangled, hence reality/ perception.

Why the New Age Deception?