Massive Armada of ships from 25 countries in Persian Gulf

Originally posted by Starchildren


I believe we are witnessing the start of WW III.

Continuation of WWII.

WWII was over countries with NO oil or resources, fighting and killing to get them. Japan and Germany had NO oil/resources.

We are still seeing countries fight/kill to get at oil. No other reason. So this is still technically WWII, after a small pause in shooting.

reply to post by Power_Semi


Jeff Rense is a weird inbred and sort of an actual Nazi and kind of ridiculous in top of that

Aside from that.

That is why we war game, it is almost preposterous to go that far back to war games we had to determine possible vulnerabilities which were then Over compensated for and the Iranians took as a war plan after he fact.

It's almost silly isn't it? That we spend all this time and money to war game in order to determine our vulnerabilities years ahead of time and repair them and yet a nation is so militarily advanced they basically use that as their defense plan anyway? because god knows it must have been hard for us to figure out how to get around speed boats?

Originally posted by Pervius

Originally posted by Starchildren


I believe we are witnessing the start of WW III.

Continuation of WWII.

WWII was over countries with NO oil or resources, fighting and killing to get them. Japan and Germany had NO oil/resources.

We are still seeing countries fight/kill to get at oil. No other reason. So this is still technically WWII, after a small pause in shooting.

Haha I had to laugh at this post, while at the same time it's so true.

Russia and USA are sort of still fighting WW2, certainly they were full on until 1990

WW2 never ended for some, indeed the Jews are still fighting and have done every day since 1939

What is with all the pro-military support? Do most or ANY of these people even know what it is to experience war, or are they just ignorant supporters of any main stage cause that's shoved into their faces? Patriotic obedience, possibly?

The link you posted from the Telegraph has now gone.

reply to post by roblot


People might just be pissed off about a bunch of cavemen that want to spread their stoneage religion all over the world. I live with these people and most of them really act like a bunch of cavemen.

Are you guys sure this isn't the countries way of playing battleship? Anyways, I have to admit this does look like a set up for a way to say that "Iran attacked our ships now lets get them!"

reply to post by Power_Semi

Thanks for the informative links. That YouTube of the Aussie boat outfoxing the American task force was awesome. The Rense report abut the myth of invulnerability in the gulf was revealing too.

You might find this one pertinent...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org...

Originally posted by penninja
reply to post by Power_Semi

 

Jeff Rense is a weird inbred and sort of an actual Nazi and kind of ridiculous in top of that

Aside from that.

That is why we war game, it is almost preposterous to go that far back to war games we had to determine possible vulnerabilities which were then Over compensated for and the Iranians took as a war plan after he fact.

It's almost silly isn't it? That we spend all this time and money to war game in order to determine our vulnerabilities years ahead of time and repair them and yet a nation is so militarily advanced they basically use that as their defense plan anyway? because god knows it must have been hard for us to figure out how to get around speed boats?

1) Who cares about rense and what he is or isn't, it's a documented fact, look at Wikipedia as well and countless other sites.

2) You have war games to improve tactics.

3) This particular war game was to test the effectiveness of the new tactics they wanted to roll out into operational forces.

4) What they found was that their new tactics were rubbish, they lost immediately.

5) What they then did was to change the rules of the games, even to the level of countermanding the red team leaders orders, and effectively follow a script that guaranteed a decisive blue (ie US forces) victory, thereby validating the new tactics and rubber stamping them for operational duty.

6) The red team leader resigned part way through the games because he didn't like having to reveal where his units were hidden, having to switch on all of his air defences radars so that they could be destroyed (and his team wasnt allowed to shoot at the attacking aircraft), etc. It was a total whitewash.

7) Those failed tactical processes are now the doctrine of the US navy.

So no, it isn't silly to look back that far, because:

a) Those are the tactics they'll employ right now
b) They ignored the obvious evidence to push through what someone senior wanted, even though it didn't work
c) They have learned nothing
d) Hormuz puts them right into the same scenario they faced in that particular game - ie they are not fighting from over the horizon, which is what all of their weapons, systems, and tactics are designed for. They'll be fighting virtually face to face which is how they ended up with the whole carrier group sunk.

Funnily enough that's the same way the Japanese sunk the Russian navy all those years ago.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by Power_Semi

 

Thanks for the informative links. That YouTube of the Aussie boat outfoxing the American task force was awesome. The Rense report abut the myth of invulnerability in the gulf was revealing too.

You might find this one pertinent...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org...

Nice!

You see that's the thing, when you start to think you're far surerior to other people, you get caught with your trousers down.

Doesn't matter how many super dooper highly advanced missiles you have if they're at the bottom of the ocean.

"I come from a land down under, you better run, you better take cover, doo da da doo da!"

I think its US/NATO saying we still don't care what you think Russia/China, if we want to act we'll do it,


It certainly is a very big statement & show of force, 20 odd nations Navys is not to be taken lightly at all, going up against such a massive naval force is suicide for Russia/China/Iran

reply to post by TritonTaranis

20 odd nations Navys is not to be taken lightly at all, going up against such a massive naval force is suicide for Russia/China/Iran

The door swings both ways. More like 25 different Nationalities aboard the US boats. I'm not saying other nations aren't on our side or on the side of dollars vs. Yen or Rubles, but we do tend to boast about our team... just like the other guy.

War is suicide.

i spoke to my brother about this today, as he was in the navy for 12 years. he said he was always travelling to the gulf, they are always performing military exercises in the persian gulf as it's all part of nato, they have been for decades, it's nothing new

when leaders and business want war they get it...it's not up to the masses. the masses are only used for fodder in various stategic moves and/or situations....my motto, "always follow the money" comes into play, almost every time.
large oil companies will make record profits...the wealthy who have bought up large amounts of gold will make record profits, all the while being completely out of harms way....military armaments companies will make huge profits...fear will produce spending of various kinds, driving up profits....IT'S JUST BUSINESS!!

reply to post by Power_Semi


You do know that that was like 10 yrs ago and they have since updated their defenses. Not to mention that the force of ships would be detected long before reaching the task force near their base and probably attacked while they are massing for a attack with something like a MOAB or a few FAB before they could get off a attack or close enough to the fleet to be a problem. The commander of the forces was also versed in US strategies and therefore had the advantage actually over any Iranian commanders.

reply to post by Power_Semi

I am not being arrogant. I am being REALISTIC. First of all..that exercise you speak of would NEVER OCCUR DURING A REAL SHOOTING WAR! The U.S. Navy is inter connected to Satellites, J-Stars, AWACS, U.S. Placed OCEAN LISTENING MICS that are at the bottom of every ocean of the world, as well as Ocean Penetrating Radar and even though the Free Electron Laser is only Partially Installed...EVERY CURRENT CARRIER GROUP HAS AN AEGIS CRUISER LOADED WITH SM-3 AMB/SATELLITE KILLERS.

The NEW SM-3's would have NO PROBLEM OF ANY KIND Destroying ANY TARGET IN FLIGHT OR SKIMMING THE OCEAN WAVES.

Now the difference between most Military's and the U.S. Military is that the U.S. Military TEACHES TACTICS that have had success whether it be our own Military or our Enemies. There is a Story about an American Bradley Troop Carrier taking on several Iraqi Prisoners of War who had surrendered and an Iraqi Captain as an American Private why he had a picture of the U.S. Enemies Generalfeldmarschall ERWIN ROMMEL taped to the inside wall of the Bradley. The U.S. Private looked at the Iraqi Captain with DISGUST and said..."If I were you I would SHUT UP! If any of you supposed Republican Guard TANK COMMANDERS had ever studied or learned anything about ROMMEL...you might not be now sitting in the back of my PC! So SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!"

I know that the U.S. Military teaches it's personal whatever works best and concepts and ideas from ENEMIES, ALLIES, ANCIENT HISTORY, U.S. MILITARY DISASTERS, MILITARY VICTORIES BY ANY COUNTRY, HOW LOW TECH CAN BEAT HIGH TECH, HOW HIGH TECH. CAN BEAT LOW TECH. and ABOVE ALL....any fixed position is a DEATH TRAP! MOBILITY, ADAPTABILITY, HOPE FOR THE BEST BUT PLAN FOR THE WORSE, AND then there is MY JOB...PROBLEM SOLVING. Why fight each other when a common ground can be found that based on condition...and REALITY ON THE FIELD...will be benefit all involved.

If I and my Team are sent in then this means that things have gotten out of hand. But at the same time...the ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND! THIS is what I deal with and I am Good at it. This is why TRUE RELIGIOUS FANATICS WILL NEVER WIN IN THE LONG RUN! They kill for the sake of killing those who they hate. WE...do not. In 1995 if was eye to eye with a Man who I KNEW wanted to KILL ME! But he was also a Man who was a Leader and saw the Big Picture. He also knew that I KNEW that if he tried to kill me...he would die! But I remember looking into his Brown Eyes and seeing a person who was smart enough to realize that although He would love to kill me...what I proposed made sense and considering his alternatives...which were limited...and unlike others I have had to listen to go on about how they are Powerful and We are weak and the Ground will flow with American Blood...this Man was smart enough to realize that talk of that nature to me would just lower my opinion of him as well as make him look foolish. I NEVER BLUFF! We prepare to be ready for every possible outcome.

I learned later that this Mans Brother had been killed by U.S. Special Forces...so it was personal. Still...he was a True Leader in that he KNEW that I KNEW he had few options and although we could have gone in and Killed Everyone...there was a Greater Purpose in mind that would allow him to act in both His and his peoples Interests as well as OUR INTERESTS. Our Interests are ALWAYS BASED ON STABILITY. He was a person I KNEW would take the Money and use it for his people and we always check up on our deals and if what is agreed to does not happen...then the problem is SOLVED PERMANENTLY! It is also part of my JOB to CONVEY this message that we WILL COME BACK if you break the deal and DEALS are NEVER based on unrealistic goals such as Paying a Man who has fought all his life to Betray those who have taken care of him. HOWEVER...I provide EVIDENCE that this person who Trained Him and Took care of Him and his people...has done so for a purpose of FATTENING THE LAMB FOR SLAUGHTER and PROOF of his betrayal...NOW I HAVE A MAN WHO IS MY ENEMY'S ENEMY!

Any sign of WEAKNESS and people die. Any sign of DOUBLE TALK...people die. ANYTHING AT ALL THAT WOULD SHOW I AM NOT ON THE LEVEL...PEOPLE DIE! I ALWAYS USE THE TRUTH! Only the truth can flip a Man who is a Leader. This is why I have said...I NEVER BLUFF! This is what is going on in the direct secret Military to Military talks with the Iranian Military...WE ARE NOT BLUFFING! And the IRANIAN NAVY IS BEING FATTENED UP TO BE THE SACRIFICIAL LAMB! THEY KNOW IT! All we are doing is showing them the truth and giving them an option other than SURE DEATH! THEIR ENEMY IS NOW THE OLD GUARD. They are now the ENEMY OF MY ENEMY and will be our FRIENDS. They know if they follow the Order to Block the Strait...the U.S. NAVY will Destroy the entire Iranian Navy as well as Air Force. Split Infinity

reply to post by Power_Semi

"I come from a land down under, you better run, you better take cover, doo da da doo da!"

Too funny. Thats the song by Men at Work the sub Commander played over the hydrophones at the end of the exercise. But you knew that...

I really dug that YouTube. I have it and Rense's blog bookmarked under tactics. If you have any other links about modern woopses in combat or exercise, I would dearly love to get them from you. Good arguments on here. Warmongers are so full of themselves.

Thanks again,

intrptr

Even the Iranians think its just a routine exercise.

Publicly, Iranian military officials have sounded relaxed about the U.S. naval exercise. "This exercise is a defensive exercise and we don't perceive any threats from it," Mohammad Ali Jafari, commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, told local media. "We are not conducting exercises in response." source: news.yahoo.com...

Though they did launch one sub and one ship for show. Its a diesel electric sub built by Russia in the 90's.
Its a routine exercise.

reply to post by CALGARIAN

It's probably infuriorating to the iranians because they can't stop it.

Keep in mind it's ANNUAL, so it's not a rare case.

Still, Iran must be fuming that the rest of the world would dare attempt to unblock the strait in the instance that they do. I mean, blocking the strait has always been one of Iran's babies.