So I want to become a Freemason....All opinions welcomed

Originally posted by Saurus
Only you will ever find your truth.

This is where we differ. Truth is absolute. There is no "my" truth or "your" truth. There's not even "our" truth. There is only truth. And that truth must be discoverable. I cannot believe it will be some unattainable "star that I may never touch" as you put it.

I appreciate the sentiment. I just don't subscribe to it.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by AvisNigra

 

Masonry is many different things to many different people. I guess I just go with the fact that nobody ever promised me any great knowledge would come from being a member, only that I would learn a great deal about myself and possibly my God.

I am truly sorry you are disalusioned and I meant no malice towards you with my reply. My journey is at it's beginning and already I can see a lifetime of opportunities to learn new things, and I hope I never run out of questions. I do hope you find what you are looking for brother.

I'm not disillusioned. I'm just hungry.

And I felt no malice from you. All is well, brother. I hope that we all find what we're looking for.

reply to post by AvisNigra


One little child believes that Santa Claus is the reason for Christmas.
Another believes that Jesus is the reason for Christmas.

Are either of them wrong?

To other outsiders maybe, but each of those two children know the truth.

As adults, we become too logical due to conditioning, and then lose sight of reality, forgetting that more than one conflicting idea can simultaneously be true. This is what the Egyptians believed - that more than one idea can be true at the same time. It is a secret of the mystery schools. Think about it for a bit. As a thought experiment...

Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by AvisNigra

 

One little child believes that Santa Claus is the reason for Christmas.
Another believes that Jesus is the reason for Christmas.

Are either of them wrong?

To other outsiders maybe, but each of those two children know the truth.

As adults, we become too logical due to conditioning, and then lose sight of reality, forgetting that more than one conflicting idea can simultaneously be true. This is what the Egyptians believed - that more than one idea can be true at the same time. It is a secret of the mystery schools. Think about it for a bit. As a thought experiment...

This dialog will lead to semantics and philosophical points I don't care to wade into right now. Suffice to say that one of the kids is wrong about Christmas. I'm okay with someone being wrong, even if/when it's me. It's not a popular sentiment in our politically correct climate to say that someone is right and someone is wrong. That's okay with me as well since truth must be absolute.

I appreciate your points though.

Originally posted by AvisNigra

Suffice to say that one of the kids is wrong about Christmas.

Really?

Let's assume for argument's sake that Jesus is the reason for Christmas.

Now, the next kid is a non-Christian and doesn't care for Jesus. He waits for a whole year to get a present. It is what he lives for.

His belief in Santa is so strong, and ultimately his ultimate desire is fulfilled. Chrismas comes, he gets a present, the journey is over, and the kid has reached his destination.

The other "fact" is irrelevant. The child has believed, and ultimately been rewarded in full.

Is that not truth?
It is absolute.
Just different for two different children.

There is no difference between this "truth" and a Christian who believes in the truth and gets to heaven. The belief led to the destination, and such a truth is always absolute.

Originally posted by Saurus

Let's assume....

I'd rather not. No offense.

reply to post by AvisNigra


I could just as easily have done it the other way around...

Originally posted by AvisNigra

Originally posted by Saurus

Let's assume....

I'd rather not. No offense.

edit on 18-9-2012 by AvisNigra because: quote brackets problem

If you two brothers don't stop your bickering and get this thread back on topic, I'm going to take your babies and beer privileges away!

Don't make me do that.

reply to post by KawRider9


Hehe...

And I was just starting to feel like I was at my own lodge's afterboard! :

P.S. KawRider9, you take all the fun out of life...

reply to post by KawRider9

Let's not overreact here with taking away the beer!!

reply to post by Saurus


Thank you for the message. Will reply when I have enough posts or credits or whatever it is that allows a new user to reply.

Originally posted by AvisNigra
This is where we differ. Truth is absolute. There is no "my" truth or "your" truth. There's not even "our" truth. There is only truth. And that truth must be discoverable. I cannot believe it will be some unattainable "star that I may never touch" as you put it.

I appreciate the sentiment. I just don't subscribe to it.

This dialog will lead to semantics and philosophical points I don't care to wade into right now.

Indeed, it will. My own opinion is that all truths are relative. Extrapolating from Galileo's (and later Einstein's) relativity, everything we perceive, we do through our own filter of existence or frame of reference. Not to say two more more people couldn't share a number of truths to an extent, but that it is conceivable that for every thing that you consider true, there may exist an exception somewhere.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
My own opinion is that all truths are relative.

I used to think along those lines as well. Considering that Truth is absolute was a scary and troubling thought. No longer. Truth doesn't change simply because our perception of it might differ. I'm sure you can provide anecdotal or philosophical proofs otherwise, but as I said, I'm don't care to wade those waters any more. It's not interesting, edifying or constructive in my own personal journey.

reply to post by BrianG


Are you worthy and well qualified?
Are you Duly and Truly prepared?
By what further right or benefit do you expect to obtain this important privileged?

Originally posted by GIBBORIM
reply to post by BrianG

 

Are you worthy and well qualified?
Are you Duly and Truly prepared?
By what further right or benefit do you expect to obtain this important privileged?

I believe I am qualified
I believe I am prepared
I expect to better myself, my person and my knowledge

And I hope to make some good new friends along the way

Originally posted by BrianG

Originally posted by GIBBORIM
reply to post by BrianG

 

Are you worthy and well qualified?
Are you Duly and Truly prepared?
By what further right or benefit do you expect to obtain this important privileged?

I believe I am qualified
I believe I am prepared
I expect to better myself, my person and my knowledge

And I hope to make some good new friends along the way

Uh oh. Time for more proficiency studying.

reply to post by AvisNigra


He hasn't even fed the goat yet. He is waiting on his initiation.
He will soon find out from whence he came.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by AvisNigra

 

He hasn't even fed the goat yet. He is waiting on his initiation.
He will soon find out from whence he came.

Just as long as he's not in one of those lodges that does EA to MM in one day. Those gentlemen are not true brothers and have been slighted. I know a few would disagree with that; usually the ones who are unfortunate to have gone through the process that way, but tradition should be upheld.

To the OP - if they try to tell you you'll be a Master Mason the same night or same weekend you become an EA then offer thanks, walk away and find a lodge that does things properly.

Originally posted by AvisNigra
Just as long as he's not in one of those lodges that does EA to MM in one day. Those gentlemen are not true brothers and have been slighted.

And how would you know how they were raised? Are you going to treat them different than any other brother? Seems awfully judgmental of you, in my opinion. Remember your lessons on what qualifies a man to be made a Mason and what merits apply.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by AvisNigra
Just as long as he's not in one of those lodges that does EA to MM in one day. Those gentlemen are not true brothers and have been slighted.

And how would you know how they were raised? Are you going to treat them different than any other brother? Seems awfully judgmental of you, in my opinion. Remember your lessons on what qualifies a man to be made a Mason and what merits apply.

I wouldn't know how they were raised unless they told me. And of course I wouldn't treat them any differently. And yes, it's VERY judgmental. But not of the men. I'm judgmental of the lodges that do this. I make absolutely no apologies or excuses for this tack.