Chinese Warships Enter Japanese Waters

Chinese standoff with Japan

Six Chinese ships entered Japanese waters near a group of disputed islets claimed by both Beijing and Tokyo early on Friday, ignoring the Japanese coast guard's orders to vacate its territorial waters. The first two ships in the battalion entered the disputed waters at around 21:20 GMT on Thursday.

Oh boy, kind of bold of China

I'm starting to wonder that it might not be the right time to allow the Japanese to rearm again, it's a long time since WW2 the Japanese people are very peaceful and China gets bolder every day at least in regards to that region. Certainly there is no lack of anti Japanese sentiment in China and i'm not sure America should try to go it alone in the Pacific anymore, North Korea is a threat, Russia has issues with them. Japan has become a marvelous friend and ally over the years I sincerely don't think we should be leaving them to be bullied.

China:

2 assault ships, 27 destroyers & 48 frigates, 9 nuclear submarines and 51 conventional submarines and one aircraft Carrier made from old soviet junk

Japan:

four helicopter destroyers, eight guided-missile destroyers, thirty frigates, six light-frigates and sixteen attack submarines

Taiwan also has a claim on these Islands and they have been propped up by the USA

This could end up very awkward, Japan is outclassed except for the backing of the US and I can't help but wonder how Obama will react to any action in the region he seems very willing to throw Israel under the Bus

I understand trying to make friends with the other world Major powers, but If there is no pro Japan stance I will be starting to wonder if Obama will work out to be the worst foreign policy president in history. I some how doubt if we let Israel and Japan and any other of our allies get rolled over in hopes of making friends with china Russia and Islam the result will be anything other than waking up one day with zero Allies only to find out our old enemies don't really give a good gosh darn about our new found friendship.

The last time Chinese government-affiliated ships entered Japanese territorial waters near the disputed islands was in mid-July, the coast guard said. That incident ended peacefully and without any significant diplomatic fallout. The Japanese coast guard described those vessels as fishery patrol ships. The latest ships are civilian government vessels maintained by the State Oceanic Administration to patrol waters claimed by China.

Their civilian ships. You're passing on clear disinformation.

Originally posted by Chargeit

The last time Chinese government-affiliated ships entered Japanese territorial waters near the disputed islands was in mid-July, the coast guard said. That incident ended peacefully and without any significant diplomatic fallout. The Japanese coast guard described those vessels as fishery patrol ships. The latest ships are civilian government vessels maintained by the State Oceanic Administration to patrol waters claimed by China.

Their civilian ships. You're passing on clear disinformation.

edit on 14-9-2012 by Chargeit because: (no reason given)

Okay I raise the Rt news source a Washington Post article

washington post

he ships had been sent to the islands — known as Senkaku in Japan; Diaoyu in China — for “law enforcement and patrol activities” and to “demonstrate China’s jurisdiction.”

Originally posted by Chargeit

The last time Chinese government-affiliated ships entered Japanese territorial waters near the disputed islands was in mid-July, the coast guard said. That incident ended peacefully and without any significant diplomatic fallout. The Japanese coast guard described those vessels as fishery patrol ships. The latest ships are civilian government vessels maintained by the State Oceanic Administration to patrol waters claimed by China.

Their civilian ships. You're passing on clear disinformation.

edit on 14-9-2012 by Chargeit because: (no reason given)

I wish he was. Hes not actually.

(Reuters) - Six Chinese surveillance ships entered waters near disputed islands claimed by Tokyo and Beijing on Friday, raising tensions between Asia's two biggest economies to their highest level since 2010 over a long-running territorial row.

China surveillance ships near islands disputed with Japan

Nothing good, can come out of it.

reply to post by sonnny1


I SERIOUSLY WISH this wasn't real!

The Chinese are calling this a "Law enforcement" Operation, There are protests in China, One guy drove a Toyota into a dealership in china and set it on fire among other Japanese car burning incidents. Tourism adverts for japan have been dropped and there is a 20% decrease in cross tourism with cancellations coming in. If nothing else this is already further economic drain.

Originally posted by penninja
reply to post by sonnny1

 

I SERIOUSLY WISH this wasn't real!

The Chinese are calling this a "Law enforcement" Operation, There are protests in China, One guy drove a Toyota into a dealership in china and set it on fire among other Japanese car burning incidents. Tourism adverts for japan have been dropped and there is a 20% decrease in cross tourism with cancellations coming in. If nothing else this is already further economic drain.

I agree.

This is not what that region needs right now. Economies, of both Countries, are not doing well, and this could spark into war.

Honestly as innocuous as this might seem, this concerns me more than the ever present hype we have here on ats in regards to any Chinese or Russian involvement in the ME. China considers this their back yard, there is long standing populace anger against the Japanese for actions during WW2. The Chinese as a people do not so much care about the Middle East beyond energy concern and it doesn't really take much brains to understand that the USA is always in business so whatever happens the oil will flow to them.

These waters however are congested with traffic, North Korea could at any time add tension simply by being themselves, Taiwan is involved in this dispute and while the Chinese are not so fast to feel insulted or interfere in regions they have no claim to the wrong moves by the USA here or Japan could be seen as extremely insulting.

why does a Chinese boat have english writing on it? that seems kind of weird to me...

Originally posted by penninja
I'm starting to wonder that it might not be the right time to allow the Japanese to rearm again

I actually have had this thought for years. Japan is a staunch ally. Germany has been rearmed, why not Japan?

Originally posted by ELectricalApprentice
why does a Chinese boat have english writing on it? that seems kind of weird to me...

You know... I don't know, Japan is understandable, so is SK for obvious reasons, but i've never been to China and I didn't think English was that much of a second language there. I suppose it makes sense give Hong Kong but I had no idea honestly

reply to post by penninja


Not many people know Chinese, much to their dismay I am sure most know English. It's as close to a universal language as we have.

reply to post by penninja


The U.S. has a Nimitz Class Nuclear Carrier Group station in Japan...plus the Pacific is the U.S. Navy's Bath Tub.

We can in a very short time bring in several carrier groups but one U.S. Carrier Group is powerful enough to Destroy the entire Chinese Navy. Not to mention the large numbers of U.S. Attack Subs in the region. If hostilities were to break out...the U.S. is bound by Treaty to defend Japan...we can do this easily.

The Chinese Navy would never know what hit them if they actually opened fire on a Japanese Island. The Russians would not attempt anything of this nature either. It is posturing. Several Years back when China was shooting Missiles over Taiwan...the U.S. sent in several carrier Groups during Clinton's Presidency. The Chinese stopped all Military activity asap.

Remember that a SINGLE U.S. NUCLEAR NIMITZ CLASS CARRIER GROUP WITH SUPPORT SHIPS AND SUBS....carry Nuclear Weapons...China does not want a Floating City loaded with NUKES within very close striking distance to it's Mainland. A Single Carrier Group has Multiple Hundreds of Nuclear Weapons aboard it as well as Aegis Cruisers and Subs all loaded with Nuclear Missiles and SLBM's

The Aegis Cruisers all carry the New SM-3 ABM's and the New Chinese Carrier Killer Missiles are an easy target for these Highly Touted by the Chinese Missiles. A U.S. Carrier Group has such a High Ability of Protection as well as being able to stay out of range of the Chinese Air Force that when they show up...China has no defense.
Split Infinity

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by penninja
I'm starting to wonder that it might not be the right time to allow the Japanese to rearm again

I actually have had this thought for years. Japan is a staunch ally. Germany has been rearmed, why not Japan?

There is no sense in it to me, knowing Japan well the people are often so peaceful these days that I would imagine the Govt doesn't push for it to anything remotely resembling a majority but I think it's long over due. personally I have business interests and any threat to japan i consider a personal threat given the global outlook how we let one of the highest IQ nations on the planet NOT work on defense is beyond me. The mutual admiration within our cultures is strong some within the Pentagon might actually fear this but personally i don't see it.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by penninja
I'm starting to wonder that it might not be the right time to allow the Japanese to rearm again

I actually have had this thought for years. Japan is a staunch ally. Germany has been rearmed, why not Japan?

Call me crazy but I think it has to do with GangNam Style.

09-03-2012
Gangnam Style: Is K-Pop weighing on Korean, Japanese tensions? AlaskaDispatch

09-11-2012
President Lee Myung-bak’s Dokdo* visit KoreanTimes

Perhaps the Chinese sense that Japan is no longer America's "Number One Son"
and think we will be just indifferent enough to let it happen.

Before South Korea can get it.


Mike Grouchy





* Dokuo is one of the disputed islands.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by penninja

 

The U.S. has a Nimitz Class Nuclear Carrier Group station in Japan...plus the Pacific is the U.S. Navy's Bath Tub.

We can in a very short time bring in several carrier groups but one U.S. Carrier Group is powerful enough to Destroy the entire Chinese Navy. Not to mention the large numbers of U.S. Attack Subs in the region. If hostilities were to break out...the U.S. is bound by Treaty to defend Japan...we can do this easily.

The Chinese Navy would never know what hit them if they actually opened fire on a Japanese Island. The Russians would not attempt anything of this nature either. It is posturing. Several Years back when China was shooting Missiles over Taiwan...the U.S. sent in several carrier Groups during Clinton's Presidency. The Chinese stopped all Military activity asap.

Remember that a SINGLE U.S. NUCLEAR NIMITZ CLASS CARRIER GROUP WITH SUPPORT SHIPS AND SUBS....carry Nuclear Weapons...China does not want a Floating City loaded with NUKES within very close striking distance to it's Mainland. A Single Carrier Group has Multiple Hundreds of Nuclear Weapons aboard it as well as Aegis Cruisers and Subs all loaded with Nuclear Missiles and SLBM's

The Aegis Cruisers all carry the New SM-3 ABM's and the New Chinese Carrier Killer Missiles are an easy target for these Highly Touted by the Chinese Missiles. A U.S. Carrier Group has such a High Ability of Protection as well as being able to stay out of range of the Chinese Air Force that when they show up...China has no defense.
Split Infinity

yeaaaaaaah

all correct

But it feels wrong, we have quite a few battle groups stationed around the gulf region atm, then there is always NK

Quite an over extension of our forces if we have to fight on several fronts, while I doubt it will happen for many obvious reasons. Fighting on the Korean Peninsula, simultaneous attacks on Japan from both NK and China via missile, action in the ME if Egypt comes in from the West of Israel and engagement in Iran would be quite a set of fronts for us to handle, now maybe add in Russian aggression in the direction of Europe plus aid in the Pacific... we'd be overextended.

You talk a lot about FEL... If you were faced with that perhaps the time to attack would be now? Your right on superiority but facing inevitable domination if your military was so inclined the time for a face off would seem to be the next 2 years as the only window with the right strategy no?

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I can not disagree with a single thing you posted, spot on. I, however, would love for the Japanese people to be able to defend their honor without US assistance, while still knowing they have the full might of the US military at their side. Right now there is nothing that China can do to the US. The day that is no longer true may come, I would love to have a prepared Asian power at our side, and I don't see why today can't be the day they get their start.

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by penninja
I'm starting to wonder that it might not be the right time to allow the Japanese to rearm again

I actually have had this thought for years. Japan is a staunch ally. Germany has been rearmed, why not Japan?

Call me crazy but I think it has to do with GangNam Style.

09-03-2012
Gangnam Style: Is K-Pop weighing on Korean, Japanese tensions? AlaskaDispatch

09-11-2012
President Lee Myung-bak’s Dokdo* visit KoreanTimes

Perhaps the Chinese sense that Japan is no longer America's "Number One Son"
and think we will be just indifferent enough to let it happen.

Before South Korea can get it.

Mike Grouchy





* Dokuo is one of the disputed islands.

You know, that is interesting...

I'm blown away by SK lately... currently i'm working on the 65 G American I need for an Investment visa in Japan, but lately SK seems more hospitable but I have to be honest NK scares the living crud out of me in regards to any investment I just feel like (given my garbage luck sometimes) I spend it there hire a couple of people as required and that will be the afternoon Un looses a Character on PVP WOW and decides to open fire lol

And I must admit i love K pop lol... I'm way too old to love K Pop, really i shouldn't... but damn

Originally posted by penninja

yeaaaaaaah

all correct

But it feels wrong, we have quite a few battle groups stationed around the gulf region atm, then there is always NK

Quite an over extension of our forces if we have to fight on several fronts, while I doubt it will happen for many obvious reasons. Fighting on the Korean Peninsula, simultaneous attacks on Japan from both NK and China via missile, action in the ME if Egypt comes in from the West of Israel and engagement in Iran would be quite a set of fronts for us to handle, now maybe add in Russian aggression in the direction of Europe plus aid in the Pacific... we'd be overextended.

We could fight the entire world on every front possible and still win. Every country in the world combined can not come close to matching the US Navy. Without defeating our Navy they can not project their forces to our shores.

You seem to be imaging some sort of protracted land war. That would not happen. What would happen is bombing the likes of which has never been witnessed in human history. It's all well and good on inferior foes to limit the scope of engagement and choose targets wisely. These rules would go out the window as soon as a true war started. China would be devestated to such a degree you would not imagine it. I sort of wish a war with China would break out so we could finish them in their infancy, when they do not stand a chance. The loss of human life also means I hope it never happens, though it seems inevitable with their provocative hostile nature.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

I can not disagree with a single thing you posted, spot on. I, however, would love for the Japanese people to be able to defend their honor without US assistance, while still knowing they have the full might of the US military at their side. Right now there is nothing that China can do to the US. The day that is no longer true may come, I would love to have a prepared Asian power at our side, and I don't see why today can't be the day they get their start.

You have to wonder what affect this actually has, while it would be a whole other thread there is a definitive issue in Japan in regards to women feeling many men are Soshoku Danshi. Possibly many other sociological reasons but somehow I feel this is very emasculating in it's own way.