Italian Supreme Court head calls for international 9/11 inquiry

reply to post by kloejen

Oh you're not saying pre-cut? Well then the building would have fallen earlier!

Dang Ian Punnett is silly isn't he.

Did they pre-cut the columns? Holy moly.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
... I finally came to the conclusion that whether or not our government took direct part in the destruction of the towers it was obvious that they were not telling us the truth about what happened.
...
The rubble was all shipped off to china to be melted down for scrap metal? Are you kidding me? The "official" story explains so little that it would be incomprehensible to think that any critically thinking mind could follow their trail of lies.

A STAR, Dystopian.. for the simple reason that the guy who ordered the
rubble cordoned away from the testing, AND THEN quickly REMOVING
THE EVIDENCE was a former New York Prosecutor. And like a couple
of movie clips emphasize, this guy was on a mission... and he was trained
and knew very well you don't even tamper with evidence much less remove it.
And another great sidebar from before.. "Where's the bullion, Rudy??"
Fellows with cameras stumbled onto the vans getting loaded up with SOMETHING.
They were told to buzz off or get some really quick cases of lead poisoning.
Gotta get your weasel whiskers twitchin' there, conspiracy fans. That yellow
stuff that was never found, not a single brick, represented a lot of beer and pizza.

At that point he made some phone calls, and an un-named individual told them to “leave, and leave right away”. Jennings and Hess then proceeded to the stairs, and made it to level 6, when there was an explosion, and the stairwell collapsed from under their feet, Mr. Jennings was actually hanging, and had to climb back up. They made it back up to level 8, where Barry Jennings had a view of the twin towers, both buildings were still standing. This is an important detail, as many debunkers have used Mr. Jennings statements out of context to claim the damage came to WTC 7 from the towers collapsing, not the case according, to Mr. Jennings.

So the key witness to explosions before the collapse of the towers dies soon after by "apparent foul play."

This man has courage when it comes to state sponsored terrorism the Italian Supreme Court would certainly be able to detect it's presence.Hopefully this spurs others to call for a new investigation.

Isn' that just dandy. Some Italian judge wants to drag the US into the Intl Criminal Court. What could be more pro World Govt elite than that?

reply to post by Red Cloak


Possible - considering the court is controlled by the same powers behind it.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Isn' that just dandy. Some Italian judge wants to drag the US into the Intl Criminal Court. What could be more pro World Govt elite than that?

(sigh)
I've had many disturbing thoughts after MUCH meditation about this national malady over all these 11 years.

I personally feel that 9/11 was indeed an inside job of some sort -- or at least not what the "official" version of events say it was. I've felt this since day one. I saw WTC7 go down smoother/faster/cleaner than any demolition of any hotel I've personally watched happen in Las Vegas and the deal was sealed for me that afternoon.

I personally feel that certain sequences of events on 9/11 -- certain things that happened -- reveal REAL sloppy work (WTC7 for one). Just like a bad kid who does bad things sloppily because he subconsciously wants to be caught and reprimanded

IF our "leaders" wanted to dismantle the USA so that it would be easier to bring in a one-world government,..what better way than to stage an intentionally hastily executed national crime scene -- so as to inflame the passions of all people in all directions but never properly investigate it or explain it to those who have serious questions?

,..What IF, "they" wanted to make certain things obviously fishy, such as steel beams weighing several hundred tons being ejected laterally hundreds of meters are seen by all but never addressed?,.. how about buildings NOT collapsing or pancaking but motherf%$#ing blowing the F$#@ up as they go down and not addressing the process at all?!,... -- Now withhold any information that would help solve these things under the name of "national security." Split the populace into two or three camps.

It's like they are shoving it in our faces & DARING us to call them on their BS. Daring us to name the real killers because that would mean nearly everything America thinks it knows --- IS WRONG --- and we'd have to examine the balance of our decisions. (I know, it sounds like work)

Our populace then, like now, literally asking OTHER governments of the world to help our own citizenry because we no longer trust our own government.

Ya see, whether they MIHOP to help tear us apart politically/psychologically and have us dissolve ourselves OR LIHOP which would enact all these insane big-brother security measures and the majority loss of constitutional rights & spending capitol, enslaving us with debt & shackling us in chains of lies and deceit. Either method works to destroy this country and both are being employed here.

No matter if you are a "truther" or a "liar" (to yourself or others),.. It's certainly a fine kettle of fish our "leaders" got us into.

And who are we supposed to trust? We're the little guys. So perhaps we can only trust little guys. But by now, the little guys have probably decided that they either fight for themselves, by themselves...or join the big dogs (corrupt rulers) so they can get a scrap from the "golden table" in exchange for not causing trouble AND informing the big dogs of what the alley cats (us) are doing behind their backs.

So maybe that's a dead end, too.

One can only hope! But I wouldn't stop with 9/11. We also need to have an international investigation into the Iraq war, U.S. torture policies instituted during the Bush administration and GITMO. It's only fair that we make those who have committed crimes face prosecution for their actions.

If I'm not mistaken, the last four words of our pledge of allegiance are; "and justice for all."

It is about time someone with a little bit of clout and irrefutable evidence to support the obvious conclusion about 911 stepped forward with calls for criminal prosecution. Bush and Cheney think they can just shoot someone in the face if they stand up to them and the other person will cower and apologize for getting their face in the way of their gun.

This war with Islam led by them and the Christians may do a lot to muddy the waters of 911. Consider this new world war (Religious war) a false flag. They still profit from war even if Bush is no longer pres. This was all part of their plan, but they didn't know something seemingly insignificant would cause such an uproar. They have bombed and assassinated plenty of Muslims for generations trying to get the support for WW3, but some low budget Christian Psycho whackjob film gets their juices boiling because their sacred God was shamed.

I am sure Cheney knew what the effect of this film would be as did Bush Sr. It is their business to know how to manipulate people. They used this intelligence ruse to get support for the war in Iraq. I don't expect too many people here to agree with me, but your grandchildren will laugh at what you think you know. In the future when the documents are released your grandchildren will know how savage these leaders of ours have been for their own benefit and religious fervor. I can imagine how easily Christians will get stirred up and how fanatical they will become in the following months.

Originally posted by Flatfish
One can only hope! But I wouldn't stop with 9/11. We also need to have an international investigation into the Iraq war, U.S. torture policies instituted during the Bush administration and GITMO. It's only fair that we make those who have committed crimes face prosecution for their actions.

If I'm not mistaken, the last four words of our pledge of allegiance are; "and justice for all."

Well said. I would like to add that the penalty for treason during war is death by firing squad.

That would make me smile.

reply to post by Pagedisciple


Yeah mind-controlled Ian Punnett kept trying to blame Richard Gage with such questions as -- are you insinuating that Silverstein was behind this?

As if -- how DARE Richard Gage raise such an allegation.

So then Richard Gage replies -- well we need to find out through an investigation -- get subpoena evidence etc.

Then Ian Punnett gets all mad -- claiming Richard Gage is avoiding the question!!

Ian Punnett insists that Richard Gage accuse Larry Silverstein just as Ian Punnett insisted that Richard Gage accuse the security company of the Bush family for the WTC towers.

So Richard Gage goes -- yeah I didn't say they did it but I said that the Ace Elevator company should be investigated as they had access to the elevator shafts for 9 weeks before the towers came down.

So Ian Punnett is all flustered -- and he finally says -- "Richard you don't seem willing to admit that you think the government did it?"

Richard Gage says well I encourage people to look into false flag incidents - we know that the Tonkin Incident was a false flag and we know that the Luitisana was a false flag that started WW One. We know that Pearl Harbor was a false flag.

Ian Punnett goes -- well I don't know if I agree about the Luitisana. haha. That's all he can say.

Daniel Hopsicker's research has proven that 9/11 was an inside job and Sibel Edmonds proved that the NeoCons were illegally arming Pakistan's ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda network.

Now the NY Crimes comes out on 9/11 with an op-ed saying the NeoCons convinced Bush that Al Qaeda was just a distraction by the CIA to not invade Iraq.

No one here is innocent -- you got CIA triple agents, and FBI spies and NeoCons running the Pentagon and the State Department -- all false flag agents.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Richard Gage says well I encourage people to look into false flag incidents - we know that the Tonkin Incident was a false flag and we know that the Luitisana was a false flag that started WW One. We know that Pearl Harbor was a false flag.

It looks like the Lusitania incident was "drawing a fight". The Lusitania was being used to carry ammunition. The Germans admit to firing 1 torpedo. It was the 2nd explosion from the gun powder aboard that sunk the ship.

My dad lied about his age to join the Marines for WWII. He says it later occurred to him that we had prior knowledge Pearl Harbor would be attacked. I don't know how he knew this.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


Very courageous. That one Italian judge really lead the way in the case of the NATO Secret Army affair. I do not know about 911 as a false flag operation, but I do admire the Italians when it comes to this sort of thing. Andriotti was amazing. Good for them. Nice post.

reply to post by Pagedisciple

Yeah, history does seem to be quite a malleable thing doesn't it?

For example, some people would believe that these buildings "pancaked" onto each other, through the path of most resistance. These same people usually find the already officially sanctioned versions of reality comforting enough to go on living "the American dream."

Unfortunately, and while this is going to sound like I am talking down to you - I'll just be blunt:

Stick to what your mind is capable of. You may want to comprehend physics. You may even be able to grind away through the diploma mill of an education system we have and 'earn' a degree in physics.

Your mind is simply not equipped with the aptitudes that allow you to function intuitively with physics.

Mine does, as has been demonstrated by countless batteries of tests and evaluations. The structure of the buildings prevents anything other than the type of collapse seen. The modular steel sections weaken and fall from their supports (the central columns and outer mesh) which results in a cascading chain reaction that, in the lower floors, resulted in the 'pancaking' phenomena.

These are typically the same people who will flat out NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that years later, bone fragments from the victims were found on the rooftops of nearby buildings, hundreds of yards away. Because for these folks - a gravity driven collapse 'surely' was the cause of this upward & outward expulsion of remains & nothing more.

Apparently, the concept of air pressure doesn't make sense to you, and you forgot about the wave of dust caused by the compression of the air as the building fell.

These same people also GIVE NO NOTICE OR CONSIDERATION to the fact that huge steel beams, weighing hundreds of tons were EJECTED LATERALLY hundreds of meters - INTO OTHER BUILDINGS around the area -- all from the "gravity driven collapses" and want the rest of the restless slaves to "please shut up & don't disturb my officially sanctioned version of events!"

Do me a favor and find a steel ruler.

Set it up straight, now bend it (you'll have to hold the bottom to keep it from kicking out). Release the top. What does the ruler do? Depending upon how far you torqued it, it will 'leap' away.

Now consider you've got one of those large steel beams and it has ten stories worth of mass falling down on top of it (at an increasing velocity - E=1/2MxV^2 ). When it absorbs that force and the bolts at its joist shear as designed (all bolts are designed to shear at certain forces to prevent damage to equipment.... which is why the original WTC plans called for welding the joists... but that proved to be costly and time consuming - not that it would have likely made a big difference in the end) - that beam is going to go flying if it's subjected to torquing forces.

Yeah, unfortunately people see what they want to see apparently & believe any line of BS to keep on keepin' on.

This is where you and I differ, my friend. I -am- the future of the human species. The subject focus and eerily accurate memory of an autistic mind with the broad neural function of the average individual.

I don't need to believe I am more enlightened in regards to a world event to feel special or otherwise remarkable within society.

Because the fact of the matter is that if the majority opinion had started off being: "it was a false flag!" - you would have ended up being of an opposing or differing conspiratorial viewpoint.

And don't try to tell me you wouldn't.

Sorry, but I am glad this Italian has stood up. He has guts.

Unfortunately, he lacks the intelligence that would, otherwise, make him relevant in the long run.

reply to post by Exitt

Let's be honest here. The only reason you are not giving this 'douche' any credibility is because he's saying something that doesn't appeal to your frame of thought. Maybe we should all wait until they present some documents before calling someone a douche.

His documents purportedly show that the U.S. had "plans" regarding Iraq.

We have contingency plans for a number of things. We have entire amphibious assaults planned out on paper and sitting in ships waiting to be mobilized to a theater.

So, yeah - we had a plan going into Iraq. We didn't draw up a multilateral, multinational offensive in a couple weeks from scratch.

Unless you believe the government is agent smith. In which case - anything is possible and you've just supplanted God and the Devil with government.

reply to post by Lynexon

Spoken like a true 9/11 truth basher.
.
.
.
They don't even really defend the OS overtly, but will still sit there and ignore evidence of it being wrong when they can't dismiss it with a simple verbal eye-roll and a "witty" remark. Like just discrediting the topic by saying this person is only making himself look and feel important because of his position.

I have this glorious concept you need to be introduced to.

It's called irony.

Now try and figure out whether I aimed that at you, or was deliberately making that comment in order to support your "witty remarks" segment.

Return when your mind is sufficiently blown.

I'm glad someone else is starting to talk about this though. The guy wouldn't just come out and Jeopardize his credibility unless there was serious damming evidence behind his claims. But people will still call him "a guy using his position to gather followers" or whatever else the Bill Mahr-wannabes will come up with.

Honestly, I'd never even heard of the guy before this. Didn't care about him then. Don't really care about him now.

Here's the thing: We could take the people who believe the moon landings were fake to the moon and show them the landing site. They will still believe and argue that it was faked: "Well, maybe they really did come to the moon - but the broadcast was staged to one-up the ruskies!"

Similarly - we could rebuild the WTC and fly planes into it and show the buildings destroyed in almost the exact same way as they were on 9/11. You'll still believe and argue that it was an inside job: "well.... fine, maybe they didn't use the GDI Ion Cannon or sub-space rupturing bombs - but they let the hijackers fly the planes into the buildings!"

The thing is that your reasoning is faith-based. People are so rooted in this idea that 9/11 was some kind of false-flag operation that they have argued over WTC 7's collapse ad-nausiem; suggesting that some elaborate scheme of rigging bombs to it was necessary to bring it down.

Yet the forest is lost for the tree. The belief - the faith - drives the need to prove something amiss to the point that the challenge no longer makes sense. Two huge towers just collapsed - but it was necessary for WTC7 to collapse to rally a nation?

Ultimately - I can't argue against faith.

I believe our government is wrong about many things. I believe there is a lot of corruption in our government. I also know, for a fact, there is a #-ton of incompetence at every level (people go to jail in the corporate world for the amount of incompetence/negligence I've seen displayed by management within parts of the military and government).

But I do not believe the tripe spewed by the "9/11 Truth" crowd.

Sure - I enjoy the challenges they occasionally propose in engineering terms. And it is important that people continue to scrutinize everything....

But here's yet another problem, and it exemplifies my point:

This guy said he has papers regarding Iraq.

What's that got to do with the events that caused 9/11?

Only that the invasion of Afghanistan put our forces in the theater and the political climate was favorable to tying up a loose end we felt should have been tied up back in 91.

Seriously though, i hope something good will come from this.

You won't consider it good unless it confirms your viewpoint.

"They upheld the official story! Circus Court!"

Be honest, now.

To the poster way up above who mentioned Jesse Ventura and the burnt cars; google search for ' toasted cars'; Judy Wood's site has good pictures of them. It was an EMP effect. The engines caught fire; not the gasoline tanks, but the engines....

And to the guy up above; you really think that physics and bent metal rebounding explains massive steel beams being thrown 100s of feet, in some cases embedding themselves into the side of buildings? Concrete floor pans being turned into dust in mid-air, before they can even hit the ground? Watch the spire video, where another massive steel beam dissolves over a period of a few seconds. Physics? How about fission? Molecular disintegration?

Here's what happened: While there may well have been thermite used to cut some larger steel beams in the lower levels of the towers, it wouldn't have accomplished what the collapse videos so obviously show.

The governments of the world now have at their disposal tactical nuclear weapons of almost any size, yield and radiation signature including ones capable of taking down a single building without causing much damage to nearby structures, and with a low radiation signature. We're talking nuclear weapons the size of potted plants or a briefcase. In all likelihood, the towers were loaded with small tactical nukes on every other floor, detonated by remote control. Google the 'horseshoe beam' picture to see what a massive beam looks like when it's been exposed to thousands or millions of degrees over the course of just a millionth of a second. Add in the sustained high heat levels in the sub-basements for several months (residual fission) and you have the only known explanation for the results we saw that day, barring unknown black project weapons as Judy Wood suggests (which would not have been available to some ex-CIA asset who lives in a cave).

Look at the videos of the buildings in mid-collapse. The outside aluminum sheathing and beams are being thrown hundreds of feet almost straight outwards with tremendous force. The concrete floor is being molecularly disintegrated, it's water content boiling instantaneously, an amount of energy not available either kinetically or from the fire high above. The massive steel core is that black smoke rising upwards, that's a mushroom cloud although not the kind we expect to see.

Get it through your heads people. New York City was nuked.

The 'why' is another issue, but it obviously has a lot to do with demonizing Iraq and Muslims (since several of the alleged hijackers were Saudis, why did we not invade or bomb Saudi Arabia???)

To the above poster who claims a strong background in physics: Feel free to rebuild the towers and send a plane into them. Or, maybe use your BBQ for an example. Build a fire in the thing, add some kerosene, let it burn for all of 57 minutes (the time it took for the second building to be hit to fall) and watch the legs of the BBQ collapse into themselves in a pile of smoking dust and U-shaped beams. No, it would never happen, you say? Huh, how about that? Given the ludicrous story that about half of the US population seems to believe, it's a wonder they have confidence that their ovens won't melt mid-turkey roast, since they're made of simple steel sheeting and not massive beams.

The truth of the matter is in what you don't see in the photos of that day and the aftermath; no desks, room dividers, chairs, computers, toilets, phones, water fountains or coke machines, each of which were present in the buildings by the thousands. In any version of a gravity fed 'pancake' collapse, they would have been found, albeit crushed. There was ONE, repeat ONE, file cabinet found in the rubble; it was originally in a sub-basement. Please explain that with your wonderful physics background and your continued belief in a gravity fire-fed collapse.

reply to post by signalfire

And to the guy up above;

My name is in that left-hand column, you know.

you really think that physics and bent metal rebounding explains massive steel beams being thrown 100s of feet, in some cases embedding themselves into the side of buildings?

I don't think, son. I know. I've personally snapped steel weldments using foot-powered hydraulic pumps - and seen pieces of steel heavier than you and me combined fly across the room.

You learn a thing or two once you get out into the world and start working.

Concrete floor pans being turned into dust in mid-air, before they can even hit the ground?

Not all of it was turned to dust - but there were multiple things going on here. First - you have the fact that these concrete slabs are steel reinforced with that steel mesh affixed to the steel structure of the building. When the building falls, you're going to have the rebar being twisted and distorted (which it can do) within the inflexible concrete substrate. This is going to cause many sections of concrete to crumble and break free of the rebar. Second - you have massive objects (concrete from above, steel beams, entire floors in some cases) slamming into concrete - which has a tendency to powderize upon impact.

Watch the spire video, where another massive steel beam dissolves over a period of a few seconds.

Dissolves, huh?

Seen the tower video multiple times. Honestly have to say that whatever you're talking about, I've seen before - and did not come away with the conclusion that the steel was being "dissolved."

But, there again, my family name carries some weight in the world of manufacturing - so I grew up with understandings of metal and structural mechanics that most people did not. It's understandable why people unfamiliar with such concepts would draw seemingly ridiculous conclusions.

Physics? How about fission? Molecular disintegration?

What about fission?

And this concept of "molecular disintegration" is something I've really only seen in comic books. So it's difficult to tell what the source of your statement meant, and even more difficult to tell what you interpreted that to mean.

Here's what happened:

I have to admit... I laughed when I read this.

The governments of the world now have at their disposal tactical nuclear weapons of almost any size, yield and radiation signature including ones capable of taking down a single building without causing much damage to nearby structures, and with a low radiation signature.

In a word - no.

The smaller the yield of your weapon, the less efficient the nuclear reaction and the more fissile material is wasted. Even three-stage (fission-fusion-fission) nuclear weapons cannot get away from this limitation.

In all likelihood, the towers were loaded with small tactical nukes on every other floor, detonated by remote control.

Holy #. What do you think the tower was built out of? Adamantium?

Depending upon the specific alloy of steel being used, heating it as little as 100 degrees celcius causes it to lose over 20% of its strength. Your skyscraper went from being a steel mesh to being an obscenely heavy aluminum mesh.

Google the 'horseshoe beam' picture to see what a massive beam looks like when it's been exposed to thousands or millions of degrees over the course of just a millionth of a second.

Look at pictures of cities bombed in WWII to see what can happen to steel beams after being hit by 'small' general purpose 500lb bombs.

Steel, in your normal experience, is a very rigid thing. In reality - it's a very malleable metal that can be twisted and mangled by various forces that are not caused by nuclear explosions.

Though mentioning bombs as a cause for steel beams being bent will probably come back to bite me in the ass with this crowd....

dd in the sustained high heat levels in the sub-basements for several months (residual fission) and you have the only known explanation for the results we saw that day,

Fission generates neutrons. You're suggesting that the cause of heat in the basement was a sustained fission process; yet, earlier, say "low radiation signature" weapons were used.

I believe you're exaggerating a tad when you say "high heat levels for months" - but there were several problems discovered with the way the gas lines operated. I'd have to return to research it, but there was, effectively, no way to shut off gas to the affected regions without shutting off a lot of other areas (that still had people who needed it).

*sigh* To be continued....