alternative to combustion engines.......

Alright this is my first post on ATS so here goes. i have been in the parts business for twelve years and have always been thinking of ways to create propulsion without combustion in an engine. I had an idea that would potentially do away with spark plugs, intake and exhaust valves, air filters, fuel systems, and most of the charging starting systems.

If you could mount a powerful electromagnet on top of each piston and then a opposite on the head then alternate the current in the appropriate position that would turn the crankshaft and take the alternator off and substitute with a generator and could probably start it with a low voltage battery.

just need pro's and con's of this idea

thanks

Originally posted by michaelstrieff
Alright this is my first post on ATS so here goes. i have been in the parts business for twelve years and have always been thinking of ways to create propulsion without combustion in an engine. I had an idea that would potentially do away with spark plugs, intake and exhaust valves, air filters, fuel systems, and most of the charging starting systems.

If you could mount a powerful electromagnet on top of each piston and then a opposite on the head then alternate the current in the appropriate position that would turn the crankshaft and take the alternator off and substitute with a generator and could probably start it with a low voltage battery.

just need pro's and con's of this idea

thanks

Its and interesting idea michaelstrieff and welcome to ATS.

reply to post by michaelstrieff


You would need to move these magnets, because if they stay static the pistons would just find a sweet spot and stay there still. Moving the magnets would require a motor... Maybe a mechanical spring could provide the energy for this motor, though? Like an old watch, but bigger...

Welcome here!

reply to post by michaelstrieff


12 years and you never looked into perpetual motion machines and why over unity doesn't work?
Welcome to ATS. It will be an eye opener for you.

reply to post by dainoyfb


Correction: Perpetual motion IS possible, but its level of energy is so small it has no current application and uses.

is there any way to switch polarity of a magnet without moving it to kind of make a pulling and pushing motion to where it will attract and repell the piston and also making cylinder walls out of non-conductive materials?

reply to post by michaelstrieff


What is your fuel?

If it is electricity wouldn't it just be easier to hook up the electric motor to the transmission?

No matter how you configure the engine with electromagnets it is still an electric motor. There are already pretty efficient electric motors available to use for propulsion. They are limited by the amount of power they can pull from batteries. You cannot hook up a generator to a electric motor like you can a gas engine.

Originally posted by swan001
reply to post by dainoyfb

 

Correction: Perpetual motion IS possible, but its level of energy is so small it has no current application and uses.

Correction: At no point in my post did I state that perpetual motion was not possible.

Originally posted by michaelstrieff
is there any way to switch polarity of a magnet without moving it to kind of make a pulling and pushing motion and also making cylinder walls out of non-conductive materials?

Yes, but you would need a source of electricity to do that...

Originally posted by dainoyfb


Correction: At no point in my post did I state that perpetual motion was not possible.

Then all is good.

reply to post by michaelstrieff


Maybe line the cylinder walls with copper. Go to about 2:20 and watch to see why I say that.



Welcome to ATS!

reply to post by onecraftydude


well no fuel just a repetitive motion would be kind of like the trains that are propelled by the magnets making them float. you could put a bar over the four pistons on each side and send a pulse over each cylinder to make it move in time. you could throttle it by adjusting the amount of pulse over each one everything else would be normal except no exhaust

Welcome to ATS...

Des

reply to post by swan001


would an old school generator not put out enough voltage if stored up in a capacitor and ramped up??

Changing the polarity and strength of an electromagnet over time is basic electronics. You are missing the point though that there are far more efficient designs of an electric motor than you propose by converting a combustion engine and yet the losses from friction, conversion, transmission, hysteresis etc, inhibit the ability to drive the motor with the energy it produces, much less power locomotion with it as well.

A hybrid vehicle on the other hand works in a similar fashion to what you propose but by using an efficient electric motor which is powered by a generator (alternator) driven by a combustion engine which consumes petroleum.

reply to post by michaelstrieff


Because it's easier to simply use a regular electric motor that spins when the charge is applied rather than the work involved in jumping from piston to pistorn, which turns a crankshaft, etc., etc.

The slightly more technical answer is in the efficiency of the energy consumed to do the work necessary. Combustion engines work well because the fuel (energy) needed to provide the locomotive force is relatively cheap and easily portable. If we had an awesome source of electric power in the vehicle then electric motors would be the norm.

Originally posted by michaelstrieff
reply to post by onecraftydude

 

well no fuel just a repetitive motion would be kind of like the trains that are propelled by the magnets making them float. you could put a bar over the four pistons on each side and send a pulse over each cylinder to make it move in time. you could throttle it by adjusting the amount of pulse over each one everything else would be normal except no exhaust

The trains are Maglev meaning they are magnetically levitated. that required a huge amount of power and a intricate timing system with millions of miles of copper wire.

Every pulse will require a voltage and amperage sufficient to drive the piston to it's next stage. The more load on the drivetrain the more watts will be required to drive the piston against the resistance. There is no free energy available to pulse an electromagnet sufficient to drive a piston up or down. The switching circuit would require more than you could get from static energy.

The reciprocating engine design is horribly inefficient. It was ok early on because the cost of fuel was nothing compared to now. You could fret for a lifetime trying to make it more efficient, but Ford and VW among others have already achieved nearly 100 mpg on production models made right here in the good ole USA.

You never heard of a car that gets 90 MPG and is made in America? That is because it is not allowed to be sold here. It cannot be imported back from Europe either. Thank your politicians and their deep pockets, oh, and the oil industry making it all possible.

You might want to bone up on your magnetic prowess. Here are a few videos to get your creative juices flowing. I am hoping to have a working mag motor eventually, but money is an issue right now/always.

reply to post by dainoyfb


this is true and i understand your point but what i am thinking about is for an old car that can be modified from a stock engine and a machine shop and then if it can get it to work then can be improved and simplified thinking of trying it myself

reply to post by michaelstrieff


If you are going to power the car with magnets, then why not just get rid of the several hundred pounds of needlessly complicated piston driven flywheel, and make the whole thing one big electric motor?

You could divert more weight of the overall "Engine" to the Stator and Armature windings, as well as the magnetic cores in each, so that you could put more flux through the whole assembly, and minimize it's construction costs, as well as its complexity (for friction losses, and ease of maintenance), while increasing overall power output.


The only problem then comes from what you have POWERING the electromagnetic drive train...

Thought this was appropriate too>



It is solar powered and able to drive the neodymium magnet back and forth past the coil. When the lights go out it stops working. You could hook a battery to it, but that will run out too.

What you are wanting does not exist.