FDA Advisory Panel Recommends Banning Vicodin and Percocet

Originally posted by Witness2008
Would reformulating these drugs require another patent? Thereby eliminating generic competition?

Wow, good point!

I can't believe I didn't think about this without reading your post. Okay, the rest of you can now flame away on the FDA.

It seems doubtful that they gave a rat's ass about consumer protection as their pressure to Abbot labs let them reformulate their Vicodin with only 25mg less Tylenol, and they get a new patent on it!

In bowing to pressure from the FDA, Abbott decided to stop making the combination pills containing hydrocodone with 325 mg Tylenol or more and decided to start producing all of its combination pills with 300 mg Tylenol, instead.

Phew. I’m glad they took care of that. I’m sure that the extra 25 mg of acetaminophen in the current formulation was just causing an untenable overload of all the liver transplant centers throughout the country.

The other thing that creating a new formulation and discontinuing the current formulation does is create a new patent on the medication. Which will undoubtedly mean that, much like how the cost of colchicine went from 10 cents per pill to $5 per pill, the cost of brand name Vicodin will soon skyrocket as the medication goes “non-generic”.

Not only that, but they get to charge more.

www.epmonthly.com...

*Smacks head.

reply to post by boncho


I am replying to you first but yes, wow what a huge difference 25mg will make verses the exorbitant amount of money this will create in the long run. So do you think it was for the benefit of consumers or to buy out the famous pill and cash in on it? I do hope it remains the same quality medication and they do not go messing with the formula.

reply to post by Witness2008


Excellent post as another member above has mentioned, star for your contribution, I think you struck gold with that comment. Thanks.

reply to post by boncho


We simply do not see eye to eye on this one and that's ok. Our perceptions are obviously very different on the FDA's concern for life. You are welcome to continue here because there are others who think the same as you do and support this change.

reply to post by SilverStarGazer


The FDA has a long history of turning down things that are good fro people and approving things that are bad. (Long short)

reply to post by antar


I actually don't see what the big deal is. They add tylenol to the pain killers unecessarily to dissaude abuse and it hurts people more. The hydro/ oxy codone is easier to abuse without the acetominophen so they add it. They have drugs without the acetominophen that are much safer than the mixed drugs. A doctor can simply suggest someone take a dose of tylenol with their prescription if someone needs both drugs.

I just see this as a non story. The ban would make the market replace these drugs with less dangerous ones.

Originally posted by Lichter daraus
Reply to post by Hope4peace

 

no not good xanax is a life saver for me as i get sever anxiety. i would have a hard time doing alotta things with out it. i dont abuse it and never will.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

A much safer and less expensive alternative is herbal tea believe it or not. Try passion flower or lemon balm instead:

"In initial trials for treatment of generalized anxiety disorder, maypop extract performed as well as oxazepam but with fewer short-term side effects."

en.wikipedia.org...

Banning these medications never works. Those who abuse medication will always find alternatives. Those who suffer from legitimate issues with chronic pain would be the only ones effected by any banning of these pills. Addicts will simply find an alternative.

As a person who does have to take medication that is abused by many ( anti anxiety medications ) I can honestly say that people who need medication are responsible. For example, my doctor and I worked out a rotation of different medications so that I do not end up dependent or addicted to any one substance. So far ( 28 years, off an on ) It has worked.

I also agree with the posters who have previously mentioned that Tylenol is bad stuff. But these pain killers are available in other formulations that do not include apap in them.

And I also agree with those who suspect that this could be a ploy to make these medications reformulated and, therefore, no longer available as generics.

Sad. All very sad.

~Heff

What REALLY needs to happen is a re-education of the medical personnel that are over-prescribing these meds to people that don't really need it. There needs to be individual hospital and medical clinic policy on who/why and how it is prescribed.

We Americans are sure wimpy in our pain and have been 'trained' to simply whine (or go to enough doctors) to get what we want. The result is a population that hasn't learned to cope, a HUGE amount of overdoses and deaths and finally those that really need and benefit from it (like your grandpa Antar) have a more difficult time getting it (and affording it). Most other countries have MUCH strictor controls and only prescribe it for extreme injuries or illnesses. I worked in an ER for years and those addictive, dangerous meds were thrown at EVERYONE (including kids) with little to no regard for patient need or safety. The hospital finally implemented a policy about the patient needing I.D. in order to get it (which was quicky disregarded) because our ER was pretty much a free pharmaceutical for the druggies and dealers. Seriously. It is a HUGE problem for all of us, because we all ultimately pay the price for it.

I personally know people that quickly became addicted to these meds becuase their physicians just kept throwing it at them with no council on how to use it and never questioned the abuse. It destroys families, lives and kills when abused and not handled properly.

I often told parents and patients after the doctor left the room that I would never give my child that medication for their mildly sprained ankle (example)...that in reality, advil actually addresses the swelling and pain receptors whereas the vicodin only makes you to where you don't care..but has a good chance of making you constipated and nauseous (and addicted).

There is a need for change and reform...but I agree that when it comes to the FDA it is probably going to be more about the buck than the safety.

reply to post by antar


Dear antar,

The pharmaceutical companies exist because of government grants, support and subsidies. They should be there to make medically beneficial drugs, they are not being helped in order to make recreational drugs. I personally don't trust the pharmaceutical industry; but, they can and should be regulated, probably even more than they are now. I will point out that I am for legalizing marijuana; but, I wouldn't let the pharmaceutical companies sell it, they have always fought against it's legalization.

On a personal note. Many years ago I had some oral surgery and was given Percodan, I liked it so much that after a couple of day I had to throw it all out and didn't take any after my second surgery. Everyone has their drug of choice, the one that they would be the most addicted to, that one was mine. I chose the pain of having four impacted wisdom teeth taken out, in two visits, one of which resulted in a hairline fracture of my jaw and many ruptured vessels. I took the pain and stopped taking the pills because I found the pills to be too addictive.

reply to post by antar


I support this 100% after watching two of my friends die from pill abuse and another working on it. I can say without a doubt these pills are nothing more than a extremely addictive should be label controlled substance. I would sit and watch these guys take hand fulls of 1000mg vicodin they wouldn't stop there though because that wasn't enough. They would also use OxyContin or suck the gel from a 72hour pain patch called fentanyl. Only god knows what else they did when I wasn't around these are just a few big ones I remember. They would then spend the next 2-3 days itching away at every part of their bodies, mostly face, neck and back areas. All the while saying I'm so waxed it feels so good. You could tell if they were messed up to. Their face would be all red sometimes bleeding.

These drugs are a sick burden on society mostly because they're extremely addictive! So sick of this modern day so called medicine. Ban all the pills, please, its only further debilitating the american society.

reply to post by Hefficide


I mostly agree that banning opiates will only hurt the "legitimate" users, however, many people get hooked on opiates because they are legal. If you take away the imprimitur of legality, many people would stay away from opiates.

Opiates do not have the social stigma of street drugs, so many people think it is okay to take several opiate pills a day. Some people somehow think opiates are safer than they really are because they are legal and prescribed by doctors, even though doctors may have ulterior motives for prescribing opiates like getting a cash payment from a pharmaceutical company or other perks. Some people are in denial about their opiate addiction because they think addiction only happens to "street people" who use "street drugs" and not middle class people who get drugs from a pharmacy.

We may not be able to do much with regards to the people who are already addicted, but perhaps we should do more to prevent new opiate addicts. Perhaps we should have more stringent requirements on new prescriptions or place penalities on doctors who over-prescribe.

reply to post by Witness2008


Probably not. In order for the "reformulated" drug to get patent protection, the reformulated version would have to be completely new. (You cannot get a patent on old ideas.) My guess is that there is plenty of literature out there describing various formulations of the drugs which would make the "reformulated" drug an old idea that is not eligible for patent protection.

how about just prescribing opium paste and leave it as natural as possible.

they process the crap out of opium, then try to chemically alter it to remove any euphoria, then add things to make you nauseous so you don't abuse it, then add acetaminophen because it's lost all its potency.

and its time for people to grow up and use it as needed.

and the attitude like "ya man, i scored some percs" is what makes prescription pills the no. 1 cause of hospitalization in america.

if you're not a bio-chemist directly overseeing the manufacturing process, you have no friggin clue whats in the pill. if street dealers cut up their product as much as pharmaceutical companies do they'd be out of business or dead.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Agreed to an extent. A good doctor will make sure they are not over prescribing any medication. One of my relatives relies upon opiates for chronic back pain and their doctor is very, very strict about monitoring the blood levels of the medication and also about dosage control.

The real caveat, I think, comes down to the patients intent. Using myself, again, as example. When I began having severe problems from my PTSD one of my first statements to my doctor was that I would not willingly take anything habit forming - being smart enough to know that addiction is a very real concern. The doctor then began to take me more seriously, I think, and we worked out a treatment plan that addressed my concerns.

Personal accountability is a very important part of it all. I just don't think it wise to throw the baby out with the proverbial bath water here. I can't source any statistics currently ( there was a death in my family today and I'm being pulled in several directions at once currently ) but I am sure that the number of patients becoming addicted is a very small percentage of those who are legitimately being prescribed narcotic medications. I do stress the word "legitimately" however, as pill mills are unfortunately very common.

~Heff

this actuly looks like a good thing for doctors and people in chronic pain. all that tylonal can mess up your liver.
all i know is if you take alot of tylonol you cant drink beer cuas it hurts that old liver

Originally posted by Deezi
reply to post by antar

 

I support this 100% after watching two of my friends die from pill abuse and another working on it. I can say without a doubt these pills are nothing more than a extremely addictive should be label controlled substance. I would sit and watch these guys take hand fulls of 1000mg vicodin they wouldn't stop there though because that wasn't enough. They would also use OxyContin or suck the gel from a 72hour pain patch called fentanyl.

First off Deezi I am sorry you have lost friends due to drug abuse, although I have never lost a loved one due to drug abuse I did watch the downhill spiral of a loved one who was a drug addict and might I add here.....kudos to her on having the strength to kick it.

I would like to inject a couple of facts into the rest of what I quoted of your post for clarification.

First Vicodin does not come in 1000mg doses. Where the confusion comes in is Vicodin comes in 3 strengths 5/500, 7.5/750 and 10/660 the first number being the mg of hydrocodone in the tablet, the second number the mg of acetaminophen in the tablet. Often that first number is used by people referring to the strength of Vicodin (or generic Vicodin) they are taking, and as in the first 2 examples there is an 1-100 association between mg of hydrocodone and Vicodin, the same is often assumed by users for the 10/660 tablets.

Second is that these drugs are labeled as controlled substances based on potential for addiction.

Oxycontin and Fentanyl patches are both class II controlled substances which by law can only be dispensed by a Dr. by means of a written prescription, with no refills allowed. The prescription needs to include exact instructions regarding the use of this medication and importantly the Dr.'s DEA number as that number can be recognized as fake fairly easily by a pharmacist checking the prescription. As I said above each time the patient needs a refill on these medications they must present a brand new prescription to the pharmacy each and every time.

Vicodin (and it's generics) are labeled as class III controlled substances these medications can only be written for the initial plus 5 refills by the physician. The prescriptions are only good for 6 months, so for example if someone has a prescription for Vicodin with 5 refills and for some reason only uses 4 of the 5 refills over the 6 month period after the prescription has been written the 5th refill is no longer legally available and the patient must obtain a new prescription from their physician if they need to continue using the drug.

The primary focus that is on the table in this issue does not address the addictive portion of these drugs but instead the amount of acetaminophen (Tylenol) contained in these drugs due to the liver damage that this non-addictive portion of the drug contains. What should be a bigger question in this instance is "if acetaminophen (aka Tylenol) is this dangerous should it not be listed as a black boxed controlled substance rather than an over the counter pain reliever."

I would like to add in answer to your comment regarding all out banning these medications, I agree that the abuse of those drugs are a burden to society, but for some those drugs help to prevent them from becoming a burden on their friends, loved ones, or society. I myself take Norco which is quite similar to Vicodin to varying degree's on an almost daily basis, I also get the nerve endings in my lower back burned off at approximately 6 month intervals to lower the pain of lumbar spinal stenosis a condition which can eventually leave the sufferer wheel chair bound for the rest of their lives. I don't take it for enjoyment, I delaying taking a dose for as long as possible and if possible I will avoid taking it at all if an OTC medication can manage my pain for the day.

i have an inside perspective on this issue myself, my teeth are horrible, i have horrid
genetics on that part and i drank way too much soda when i was younger, so it is my
fault really, they became so expensive to fix i could never afford it so they got worse and
worse over the years and the prices to have them removed are beyond my reach as
well.

i am slowly working on having them removed one by one when i can save up
enough here and there, i use excessive amounts of over the counter pain killers as
a result, what others dont seem to understand is in this case the pain is simply
too much to bear, and i dont mean ouch it hurts, what i mean is true pain you
cannot simply ignore, you cannot sleep you cannot think about anything other than
the pain, the only thought in your mind is how to stop the pain, i have been in so
much pain i have come a hairs breath away from trying to knock myself unconscious.

no that is no joke, when you have taken 2 aleve, 6 Tylenol and 6 ibeprophen, all at
once and it barely does enough to keep you sane, you begin to see why these things
occur, i do not go to the hospital because so many people abuse the system they
would simply think of me as a drug seeker and i dont think i could stand the looks
and shame on top of the shame i already feel for my teeth being as bad as they are
and the pain on top of that.

if they do this i can tell you one thing for sure, you will see suicides go up, that kind
of pain i cannot bare without some kind of help, i cannot legally get the pain medicine
i need so i am forced to slowly kill myself because of the criminally driven out there.
so next time any of you think that its ok to lie to get those pain meds you just love to
take, remember there are real world implications for your lies and yes you are hurting
those of us who truly need it but cant get it because of you.

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by boncho

 

We simply do not see eye to eye on this one and that's ok. Our perceptions are obviously very different on the FDA's concern for life. You are welcome to continue here because there are others who think the same as you do and support this change.

You replied to a previous post of mine before I uncovered the link between new patents and reducing the Tylenol amount. That being said, it appears to me more likely that this move by the FDA is (very likely), possibly benefitting special interest, which will let certain companies make much more money off the move.

That being said, even though it is a minor reduction of Tylenol in the formula, it is still able to be spun as an action directed towards public interest. (Although personally, I don't see how 25mg will make much of a difference, especially when meds are often prescribed 3 times a day.)

I'm not really backing the FDA actions here, but I will say there is no reason for us to jump down on them until we have something to do it for. I wasn't defending them earlier in the thread, merely defending the argument about this issue. And it didn't appear as there was an ulterior motive at the time, now though, with my last post, it's possible there is.

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by SilverStarGazer

 

The FDA has a long history of turning down things that are good fro people and approving things that are bad. (Long short)

Government organizations change over time and some that were very corrupt end up being very beneficial to society. If you knock them forever for past actions (especially after new people have taken the helm) you will sink yourself into some really unneeded negative attitudes.

I'm not saying the FDA deserves your admiration at the moment, but it's always better to be as little jaded as possible so emotions aren't analyzing the situation... keeping your brain from doing so.