Curiosity Just Went Through Mud?

Originally posted by Phage

So, what are the tire tracks? Most likely, the wheels disturb the soil and roughen it up. This exposes material underlying the surface. The surface probably has some bright dust on it, so this exposes a darker, subsurface crust of material. The same thing happens in my garden when I take smooth, well-tamped, soil, and break it up with a hoe--the newly roughened surface is darker.

quest.arc.nasa.gov...

So why is the surface bright? It's not wet because of the sun... The earth's soil is pretty wet in a garden environment. So I agree with the facts here, but the implications are backwards.. The implication should be that Mars is a bit like Earth in that the top soil drys out protecting moisture underneath..

One other explanation is that the "Top soil" (richer darker soil from organic dead things) is under th surface due to dust storms or just silt deposits over time.

Still it looks sticky and not like dust stuck to a ballon, but more like moist dust scraped across the wheel ..

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Would like to see the moon buggy tires and how caked up the moon dust was for comparison.

The lunar vehicles had flexible mesh tires. Plenty of adhesion on the hubs though.

thought it was determined there was plenty of water on mars in some form, be it ice or simply percipitation.

Not plenty, not at the surface. But water ice was found in the north polar region by Phoenix. No precipitation has been found (not any reaching the surface anyway).

edit on 9/11/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Cheers
I am still bugged though that there appears to be caking going on. I understand a fine dust will collect and adhere to surfaces, but caking requires some moisture, no?

unless there is some electrical force..perhaps static electricity?

the cake is a lie (nerdref)

reply to post by Dustytoad

The implication should be that Mars is a bit like Earth in that the top soil drys out protecting moisture underneath.. Not that the mars rover is turning over darker soil with no explanation as to why it's darker..

It's darker because it is of a different composition and texture than that on the very top layer.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
unless there is some electrical force..perhaps static electricity?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It might not be dripping soaked but there is definitely moisture in that soil.

Originally posted by Larry L

Originally posted by Consequence
Shouldn't people be banned for such titles, when the content is far from it?

Thank you for nothing.

What do you mean? Did you even look at the images at good quality? There is clearly what looks like mud on the treads at the top of the wheels. If it looks like mud, what else should I have put? H2O saturated dirt particles? You tell me?

How about: Curiosity just went through dust so dry it looks as fine as powdered sugar.

reply to post by Phage


Phage,

It is well documented by NASA that sometime in the past (and maybe even in the present) there is water on Mars. Quick search on Nasa's site

Here is a direct NASA source.

The ground where NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit became stuck last year holds evidence that water, perhaps as snow melt, trickled into the subsurface fairly recently and on a continuing basis.

NASA Trapped Mars Rover Finds Evidence of Subsurface Water

The following short video is narrtaed by Alfred McEwen, HiRise Instrument Investigator, where he clearly states they've found some active slopes features on Mars and the evidence points to water. I'm pretty sure you've seen this one before.

Possible Water Flows on Warm Martian Slopes



Now if you are asking me to provide you with another source that states that water is being squeezed out of the Martian soil then I'm sorry, but I cannot provide you with that, since it is entirely my opinion based on the information presented to me and to all of us by NASA. The same way Mr. McEwen believes there is water flowing on those Martian slopes based on his studies and interpretation of the data presented to him by HiRise.

It is entirely up to you based on the information studied to determine what you think it is. In my opinion it is very plausible that something is being squeezed out of the soil, whether is water or something else.

Of course, in contrast to NASA, I got no reputation to lose that's why I speak out my mind.

On the other point you touch. If Scott Maxwell, a Mars Rover Driver, the person that actually sends the commands for Curiosity to move on Mars states that the closest things to the Mars' dunes here on Earth is the Mojave Desert (which I assume he is refering to the terrain) then I'm gonna go with that. Otherwise NASA is testing their rovers at the wrong location, which I don't think is the case. He is one of Curiosity's drivers. I'm pretty sure he earned that spot.

From the Q&A I linked:

There is not enough water for the soil to be considered "moist".

Yes, correct. But that may change tomorrow with future missions we send. The reason I linked to the Q&A was to present both sides of the argument.

Believe me when I tell you I'm not one of those who makes a commentary without carefully studding all sides of the argument based on the information presented to me. I hate to jump out to conclusion before finding all facts out. At least I try very hard not to do so.

We are living very exciting days when it comes to science. Don't you think so?

Cheers

Edited/ since all the tires have dirt on them.

Its wet.
Look at center of this pic, its even reflecting like water.


As for Electrostatics being involved, I realy dont think so.
NASA would NOT send a craft all that way just to have the electronics zapped by static when they can so easily make the wheels - whether made of rubber or metal - discharge any potential before it has time to reach dangerous levels.

Sorry but the static theory is far more silly than the water theory.

reply to post by Holosapien

It is well documented by NASA that sometime in the past (and maybe even in the present) there is water on Mars.

Yes. I know.

NASA Trapped Mars Rover Finds Evidence of Subsurface Water

I recall that article. It talks about evidence of liquid water having seeped down through the soil when climatic conditions were different on Mars. It does not talk about water existing close to the surface.

It is entirely up to you based on the information studied to determine what you think it is. In my opinion it is very plausible that something is being squeezed out of the soil, whether is water or something else.

In order for that to occur there would have to be liquid water very, very close to the surface. That is not likely to be the case. Some other fluid? Like what?

which I assume he is refering to the terrain

I would agree that the terrain (sand dunes) is similar. This does not mean soil or atmospheric conditions are at all similar.

I hate to jump out to conclusion before finding all facts out. At least I try very hard not to do so.

The facts that we have say that it is highly unlikely (close to impossible) for moisture to be found just below the layer of dust on the surface. The fact is, it does not require moisture for dust to adhere.

We are living very exciting days when it comes to science. Don't you think so?

Yes, I do.

reply to post by Larry L


New Mexico has mud.

What's the big deal?

reply to post by DeepThoughtCriminal


dirt only "sticks" because of water content. ask a sand sculpture . that being said looks like wet dirt in the second

reply to post by DeepThoughtCriminal


dirt only "sticks" because of water content. ask a sand sculpture or try making a ball with dry soil. . that being said looks like wet dirt in the second pic

Originally posted by Larry L

Originally posted by Destinyone
Is shadow of curiosity...not dampness. Really, you saw water....

Des

Nope. Actually it's specifically areas of the tread not in shadow, which is why it's so obvious. The sunlight is making the moisture clear as day.

In the first image, on the tire in the center of view......there's a vertical (angled) stripe of shadow being cast by Curiosity. To the left of that shadow.....the top 2 treads....the actual "teeth" of the tread....the part that digs into the ground to create traction.......look closely....zoom in.....you can see on it's last revolution it dug into wet sand.

In the second image.....same thing......very top treads are the most obvious. You can see the wet mud glistening in the sun.

edit on 11-9-2012 by Larry L because: (no reason given)

Sorry but I'm seeing no mud there. Anyone who has worked on a farm and had driven a tractor in a very dry, dusty field has seen that kind of image before. The dirt clings to the tractor tires and cakes up even though there is no moisture there at all

The second pic is the one which catches my eye. I focus my attention on the part of wheel which is not in the shadow of the rover. It appears that is very fine soil of some type; although I do not know exactly what kind. It is sticking to the wheel. True, there does not need to by moisture for very fine soil to stick to the wheels. Yet, some of the soil is a different shade than the rest(the part not in the shadow of the rover of course). It might be moisture but I cannot be sure about it. What path has the rover been on recently? What part of Mars is the rover at currently?

reply to post by VoidHawk

NASA would NOT send a craft all that way just to have the electronics zapped by static when they can so easily make the wheels - whether made of rubber or metal - discharge any potential before it has time to reach dangerous levels.

What dangerous levels? It doesn't take a lot of static electricity to get powder to cling.

Surely instead of all this speculation, we should just wait and see whether the "moisture" evaporates? If it evaporates, it lends more weight to the "water" theory. If it stays, it's still interesting nonetheless as to what is causing it.

Personally, I hope it is evidence of water. Considering Curiosity is going towards a river bed, the likelihood on increasing amounts of wet sand sticking to the wheels is high and that should be interesting to see!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

NASA would NOT send a craft all that way just to have the electronics zapped by static when they can so easily make the wheels - whether made of rubber or metal - discharge any potential before it has time to reach dangerous levels.

What dangerous levels? It doesn't take a lot of static electricity to get powder to cling.

I agree. The surface "dust" is an extremely fine powder with a depth of probably a few inches. Those who are questioning can think of it as when you put baby powder on a surface. Even though there is no moisture there, the baby powder clings to the surface due to the static charge and the very, very small surface of the particles of the powder. The Martian dust is the equivalent of baby powder, so it's going to cake up even without moisture present.

Originally posted by Larry L
In the second image.....same thing......very top treads are the most obvious. You can see the wet mud glistening in the sun.

Sorry, Larry, but there is no "glistening." This is just dirt. No mud. No moisture. Sorry.

Thanks for posting the pics, though.

I took a look at other photos and I now think that's not moisture, as the dark areas on the ground appear in photos from more than one day, so if it was moisture it should had disappeared (at least partially) on following days.

But there's something I noticed, it looks like the wheels got not only dust but they also look a little "greasy" in some places.

That's noticeable as darker patches on the surface of the wheels, as seen on this photo.



Any theories?