Debate over a Nuclear Iran is just an Illusion- drop your preconceived opinions to see the reality

reply to post by Wonderer2012


So then you agree with Iranian's hopping the Iran-Iraq border JUST to kill American's "infidels" in Iraq?

I personally don't remember crossing the border to kill "infidels" in Iran.

I will never forgive this. EVER.

reply to post by yourignoranceisbliss

You (and many other posters) find a great deal of significance in the idea that Jews live in Iran. I don't see why.

About 75 million people live in Iran. Less than 3/100 of a percent are Jews, about 20,000 people scattered in tiny villages. Why is this to Iran's credit? 99.6% are Muslim.

Believe it or not, I'm asking because I don't understand why it's a big deal. Any help would be appreciated.

reply to post by Wonderer2012
You got it! There is nothing that is going to stop the bombing of Iran. The planing for this has been in the works for a long time now and they won't go this far and just stop. They will go through with it. Like you said they just need to produce the justification for the action.

The U.S. has already shown that it will attack another sovereign nation (Libya) without the approval of congress. "NO FLY ZONE"? since when did enforcing a No Fly Zone involve attacking a Governments ground forces, who were under attack by a mercenary rebel army.

"Shock and Awe"!..? I suspect that we ain't seen nothin' yet! Iran will be the proving ground of the next BIG conflict.

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

You got it! There is nothing that is going to stop the bombing of Iran. The planing for this has been in the works for a long time now and they won't go this far and just stop. They will go through with it. Like you said they just need to produce the justification for the action.

The U.S. has already shown that it will attack another sovereign nation (Libya) without the approval of congress. "NO FLY ZONE"? since when did enforcing a No Fly Zone involve attacking a Governments ground forces, who were under attack by a mercenary rebel army.

"Shock and Awe"!..? I suspect that we ain't seen nothin' yet! Iran will be the proving ground of the next BIG conflict.

(Insert deity here) help us all if that happens. Let's just hope that Israel finishes it quickly if they start it, otherwise we are all doomed.

Originally posted by ronnieray123
Yes i can, yes I do.
I saw the citizens celebrating the capture and detention of my countrymen, they as well are guilty and entitled to punishment.
I do not need any other reason than that. You can say I do, and you could keep repeating that over and over right until I pressed the button that sent death on a one way ride to Iran....then I would turn and say "What was that, I was a little busy and didn't catch what you said?"
Some innocent Iranians will die..............but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make.
I can only hope that the next time someone gets stupid ideas like that, someone speaks up and tells them it might not be such a good idea and maybe it is better not to do that.

You are funny telling me I can not advocate revenge, because that it what it is revenge, when you can plainly see that is exactly what I am doing.
As I said, I would destroy that nation myself if I was offered the chance to push the button with no more remorse than I have for swatting a mosquito.
Time to think about your well being is BEFORE you take my countrymen hostage, not after. Now it is too late for them, and it looks like I am going to be able to finally celebrate the downfall of Iran.
The citizens of Iran took my countrymen hostage, the leaders of Iran refused to secure their immediate release. They can all die, no use for any of them

Your threats elevate you no higher than your perceived enemy.

Are you for real or just a bot?

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever

Originally posted by munkey66

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
Yes, the apologists are right. Iran is a guiding light of peace and prosperity for the rest of the world to emulate...

Holding a rally and placards is hardly calling for blood now is it?

No, but mass demonstrations that involve the burning of other countries flags in effigy and chants of death to other nations certainly is.

edit on 10-9-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

would that also extend to Koran burning?
But I hate to break the news to you, but I think the biggest business at the moment is supplying flags to many countries in order for them to burn it, you will find Iran is not alone in the flag burning stakes

reply to post by hurdygurdy

Your threats elevate you no higher than your perceived enemy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds like you're saying that that is the way Iran thinks, and Ronnieray123 is at their level.

If that's true, look at the reaction to him in this thread. Do we condemn Iran as loudly? And Ronnieray123 is just an average citizen that has been personally affected. Does the Iranian governmant have this attitude? If so, shouldn't we be polishing up our missiles? That kind of rage must not be allowed to get a nuclear weapon. That rage should be rendered harmless.

reply to post by ronnieray123


Here are 34 more names to add to your list, but, you might want to wonder why your government is giving the country that killed them, $70 million dollars in new military aid. Oh yes, all these people were killed as a result of the attack on the USS Liberty.

LCDR Philip McCutcheon Armstrong, Jr. Navy Cross
LT James Cecil Pierce
LT Stephen Spencer Toth, Silver Star
CT3 William Bernard Allenbaugh
SN Gary Ray Blanchard
CT2 Allen Merle Blue
QM3 Francis Brown
CT2 Ronnie Jordan Campbell
CT2 Jerry Leroy Converse
CT2 Robert Burton Eisenberg
CT2 Jerry Lee Gross
CT1 Curtis Alan Graves
CTSN Lawrence Pasul Hayden
CT1 Warren Edward Hersey
CT3 Alan (NMN) Higgins
SN Carl Lewis Hoar
CT2 Richard Walter Keene, Jr.
CTSN James Lee Lenau
CTC Raymond Eugene Linn
CT1 James Mahlon Lupton
CT3 Duane Rowe Marggraf
CTSN David Walter Marlborough
CT2 Anthony Peter Mendle
CTSN Carl Christian Nygren
SGT Jack Lewis Raper, USMC
CPL Edward Emory Rehmeyer, III, USMC
IFCN David (NMN) Skolak
CT1 John Caleb Smith, Jr.
CTC Melvin Douglas Smith
PC2 John Clarence Spicher
GMG3 Alexander Neil Thompson, Jr.
CT3 Thomas Ray Thornton
CT3 Philippe Charles Tiedke
CT1 Frederick James Walton

So where are you all going to stand after Israel and America bombs Iran and finds no WMD's, or will they plant them after learning from pryor mistakes in Iraq.
We all know they are going to, its only a matter of time, personaly I believe after the election if Israel doesnt premature ejaculate before hand and go in.
besides Gadaffi told all the Arab leaders it would end like this for them, but they wouldnt listen.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Well, as incredible as it may sound, America and her allies still need 'justification' to actually began a military campaign. 9/11 justified the Afghanistan invasion of 2001, the WMD lie justified the Iraq invasion of 2003, intervention in Libya in 2011 was justifed on humanitarian grounds. Justification is required because of international politics.

Actually, they don't need justification. They can do whatever the f they want.
What are you, or the rest of the dumbed down masses, going to do about it?

Well if that is the case, why did the build up to the Iraq war take years? Propaganda concerning Iraq's WMD went back to Clinton's State of the Union Address in 1998!

A huge propaganda campaign was launched to bomb Libya last year.

On the world stage, America and her allies still need 'justification' to start military campaigns. It's just the way it is.

Also, they still need public support. If they never, they wouldn't bother with all the propaganda?

Originally posted by Wonderer2012

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Well, as incredible as it may sound, America and her allies still need 'justification' to actually began a military campaign. 9/11 justified the Afghanistan invasion of 2001, the WMD lie justified the Iraq invasion of 2003, intervention in Libya in 2011 was justifed on humanitarian grounds. Justification is required because of international politics.

Actually, they don't need justification. They can do whatever the f they want.
What are you, or the rest of the dumbed down masses, going to do about it?

Well if that is the case, why did the build up to the Iraq war take years? Propaganda concerning Iraq's WMD went back to Clinton's State of the Union Address in 1998!

A huge propaganda campaign was launched to bomb Libya last year.

On the world stage, America and her allies still need 'justification' to start military campaigns. It's just the way it is.

Also, they still need public support. If they never, they wouldn't bother with all the propaganda?

the propaganda for this coming war has gone back around 5 years now with that geriatric Mcain sing bomb Iran to that beach boys song.





and well i just had to throw this one in!

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
So this current debate between America and Israel is nothing more than an illusion to make the masses think America is in fact trying to avoid war.

You must not be following geopolitics very closely. America is in no position to successfully invade, and let alone "change regime" in a country like Iran, without committing most if not all of its remaining resources. Iraq was not a cakewalk either, but Iran is something completely different.

I agree this military campaign will be very costly. Be aware there is a VERY strong possibility that a 'hidden hand' actually wants to see the collapse of the American economy. However, that is for another section of the forum

An Iran conflict is madness I agree with you, but it's being planned under our noses-



Those are some quotes from the NDAA 2013.

reply to post by Wonderer2012

whoah, heres a few more good ones from the start of the propaganda on Iran from 07'









Its always been there, just enough to stimulate your brain, now the majority are just used to the concept.

reply to post by repeatoffender


There are a lot of similarities to the build up to the Iraq war and the coming Iran conflict- mainly the MSM/political propaganda that is used for years to convince as a high of a percentage of the public as possible that war is required.

That Palin video is priceless

'Politicians' like her have advisors and many of them are pro Israel lobby, pure and simple. It's comical to see American politicians parroting what they've been told to say, without really understanding what's really going on- they're in politics for the money, and nothing else matters.

It's ironic that the mantra is that dictatorships are bad, and yet we need to go into these 3rd world countries to dictate democracy to them.

As a Canadian it disturbs me to see our government closing down embassies and expelling Iranian diplomats. We are a so called democratic/diplomatic country and we so easily abandon diplomacy even without an official declaration of war. Hell even after a declaration of war there should always be attempts to negotiate peace. We are nothing more than a protectorate to Israel/USA, and unfortunately we are likely going to war in the near future.

Worse... This possible war might create a temporary economic boom for us, but the outcome will inevitably be damaging to the economy. Get ready for more inflation, and higher fuel prices.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
As a forum, I think the biggest weakness the majority have is not letting go of their preconceived opinions on the Iran issue. I'm not trying to offend people, it is just an observation I have seen repeated over and over again where threads rage on with people debating whether Iran is after a nuclear weapon, whether it is Israel or Iran who are the good guys etc.

To see the reality, you have to drop all the politics. The policy makers behind the scenes, the analysts and experts on the region have stated the main aim of American foreign policy is regime change in Iran. THEY DO NOT CARE IN THE SLIGHTEST if Iran has a nuclear weapon or not, they are going to apply regime change either way. Iran may or may not be pursuing a nuclear weapon, the point is it doesn't make any difference!

The nuclear weapon debate is nothing but a story that the MSM and politicians feed to the masses. Politicians are there to create the illusion that there is choice, that sanctions might work, or maybe Iran will opt to use diplomacy- it is all quite literally bull #. Behind the scenes, the real decision makers want regime change, it is as simple as that.

Let's look at the current situation and what the public is being told-

- Israel is urging America to use a military option 'before it is too late and Iran gets the bomb'.

- America, so far, is resisting. Obama is still 'waiting for sanctions to work' (or at least that is the official version of what he tells us).

It is an illusion to fool the public. It paints America as the good guy- Obama trying to solve the issue diplomatically, trying to avoid war, when in reality, his policy makers had the blueprint for war and regime change planned years ago.

Why are these charades needed? Why not just bomb Iran and get the regime change over with?

Well, as incredible as it may sound, America and her allies still need 'justification' to actually began a military campaign. 9/11 justified the Afghanistan invasion of 2001, the WMD lie justified the Iraq invasion of 2003, intervention in Libya in 2011 was justifed on humanitarian grounds. Justification is required because of international politics.

So this current debate between America and Israel is nothing more than an illusion to make the masses think America is in fact trying to avoid war. America cannot wade in with military strikes, it simply would not look good on an international scale.

This is where we have to get into the mindset of the policy planners. Military strikes are the only way to ensure regime change in Iran, yet they need 'something' to happen to make sure America is seen as the good guy. It could come from a terrorist attack (false flag), America could respond to this similar to 9/11. Another option is that Israel could lead the charge (thus America is not guilty of striking first), this would then lead to an Iranian retaliation, which would then justify American action in defense of their ally in the region.

These are the things the policy makers have thought out, by now their plan is almost certainly laid out. Which path they will take I do not know, but it can pretty much be narrowed down to the two options I've discussed. It is merely waiting for the implementation. But to appreciate this reality, you have to drop the politics and stop buying into the 'debate'.

It's just an illusion that choice stills exists.

edit on 10-9-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)

It is astoundingly obvious that you fail to mention Iran's repeated desire to eliminate Isreal from the earth. I wonder why that is? Iran is also the world's largest supporter of Hamas, Hezzbola, and the insurgencies in Iraq, Afganistan, Lebenon, and Syria.Iran is the worlds largest trader with North Korea. I'll let Russia, China, and the others for what they are.

You are a raging idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by charles1952
I suppose I shouldn't be posting, I'm too upset. Not Ronnieray123 upset (although he is the most honest and open poster in this thread), but upset enough that I might be impolite and I apologize for that in advance.

The OP is correct in saying the "Debate over a Nuclear Iran is just an illusion . . ." At least in this thread it has shown itself to be so. There was no dropping of preconceived notions by the supporters of Iran, you can see the same ideas, the same words, in dozens of threads already posted on ATS.

I wish to Heaven there was a debate, at least here if not world-wide. But all that seems to be happening is that another opportunity has been taken by some to repeat, yet again, that Israel is terrible, Iran is peaceful and has done nothing wrong, and the US is terrible.

Ignored here, are the threats, the treaty violations, the repeated statements of outrage from the UN and other agencies, the funding of terror groups, and on and on. A country can only be excused because it is acting stupidly, for just so long. It looks like Iran has passed that limit. A real debate would try to unearth the reason for Iran's apparent insanity. It may be that insanity is all there is.

If that's the case, then it's time to put Ronnieray123 in charge of our military.

Your post seems reasonable right up to the last sentence, but your posts are often like that. Nice and humble and civil looking on the outside but inferring a kind of arrogant rhetorical stance that is just as judgemental as the posts you criticize.

Are you really suggesting putting a self proclaimed homicidal psychopath, who sees nothing wrong with murdering millions of innocent men, women and children in order to exact revenge over a 60 year old 444 day incarceration of 52 people, in charge of the most powerful and destructive military force on the planet

i like it,couldnt agree more and hear is a little song i found on the subject hope u like.

www.youtube.com...

and another

www.youtube.com...

I have said this before as well.
Just like Iraq, their goal is regime change and nothing less

I think there are 2 reasons why this happens. First issue is I think alot of western nations (especially Americans) simply do not like Muslim people. It is viewed as a foreign religion to us and our Governments have all but brainwashed us into thinking that Islam is full of crazies. People see the media taking quotes out of context and buy right into it.

The second issue is I don't think people understand the difference between the Jewish religion and the Zionists in control of the Israeli state. If you even mention Israel in a negative light you're automatically labeled anti semitic.

At the end of the day neither side is in the right here and it is not any other nation's job to play world police. Let Israel fight it's own holy wars.