United States Will Become A Third World Country Overnight. Real Unemployment 22%

The “great hegemonic American economy” is on the verge of total collapse, because the only way it can pay for the imports that sustain it is by issuing more debt and printing more money. Once the debt and money creation undermine the dollar as world reserve currency, the US will become overnight a third world country, much to the relief of the rest of the world.

Hyperinflation will destroy the United States when the reserve currency status is lost.

Friday’s payroll jobs report says that 96,000 new jobs were created in August and that the unemployment rate (U.3) fell from 8.3% to 8.1%. As 96,000 new jobs are not enough to keep up with population growth, the decline in the U.3 unemployment rate was caused by 368,000 discouraged job seekers giving up on finding employment and dropping out of the work force as measured by U.3. Discouraged workers are not included in the U.3 measure of unemployment, which makes the measure useless. The only purpose of U.3 is to keep bad news out of the news. the U.3 unemployment rate only measures those who have not been discouraged by the inability to find a job and are still actively seeking employment.

The government produces another unemployment measure, U.6, which includes people who have been discouraged by the inability to find a job and have been out of the work force for less than a year. This measure of unemployment is 14.7%, a number that would get attention if reported.

When the long-term (more than one year) discouraged workers are included, the US unemployment rate is about 22%. In other words, the real US rate of unemployment is almost three times higher than the reported–headline rate–of 8.1%.

www.marketoracle.co.uk...

The figure of 22% is debatable but it is clear that the real unemployment figure is higher than 8.1%. The United States is in alot of trouble. Like the guy says, the US will become a third word country overnight when they lose the reserve status. The world is quickly moving toward a 'basket reserve' and have been for some time.

Hyperinflation will destroy the United States as we know it. It will be like the fall of the USSR or worse.

Do you know what would fix this entire debt crisis? If the major players around the world agreed to forgive all debts and start the cycle again. Sure millions would lose their so called "valuables" but at least the world won't rip itself apart. After the shock is over people will be able to lend and borrow again to create businesses.

I've always wondered why we carry the debt of previous generations on our shoulders.

It's likely higher than 22% Roughly 80 million working age Americans are either unemployed or underemployed. Real figures point to ~40-50% employment instability after you account Americans below the working age and Americans past retirement age.

Economic collapse won't happen; the powers that be will not allow the collapse of the dollar (and perhaps the Euro as well), this is why we invade countries that threaten to stop trading oil in dollars. Furthermore, who will try to shut us down? Most countries cannot contest our military capability, they cannot exactly sanction us.

Could America become a rogue nation when faced with the collapse of the dollar? Perhaps, and this would be scary indeed, but look at where we are now: (officially) over 16 trillion in debt with a reserve that prints money like it's toilet paper. If the collapse was going to happen, it would have already happened by now. We're at a point where it is literally impossible for us to pay off our debt.

Originally posted by zero1020
Do you know what would fix this entire debt crisis? If the major players around the world agreed to forgive all debts and start the cycle again. Sure millions would lose their so called "valuables" but at least the world won't rip itself apart. After the shock is over people will be able to lend and borrow again to create businesses.

I've always wondered why we carry the debt of previous generations on our shoulders.

The cycle is inherently flawed; we need a new economic system as well as a new monetary system.

We carry the debt of previous generations because somebody has to pay it back. Also, the last 30 years or so speak to why we're in so much debt. The generation responsible for this mess is still alive.

I always thought America was a 3rd world country that just relied heavily on credit
what was the national debt there as of late.... I hope that isn't compound interest ..

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy

Originally posted by zero1020
Do you know what would fix this entire debt crisis? If the major players around the world agreed to forgive all debts and start the cycle again. Sure millions would lose their so called "valuables" but at least the world won't rip itself apart. After the shock is over people will be able to lend and borrow again to create businesses.

I've always wondered why we carry the debt of previous generations on our shoulders.

The cycle is inherently flawed; we need a new economic system as well as a new monetary system.

We carry the debt of previous generations because somebody has to pay it back. Also, the last 30 years or so speak to why we're in so much debt. The generation responsible for this mess is still alive.

I would rather be stuck in another cycle and have time to find a sound economic system than have violent revolutions that would kill millions. I don't think we have enough time and enough people willing to commit to such a change.
I think America will survive in one form or another, we've been through a lot and still exist even if it's a lot different than 200 years ago.

I tend to agree that the major forces behind the scenes will not allow the US to collapse into a 3rd world country. It's not because they care about you or me. It's because that would not suit their interests. They need Americans to keep thinking that we are on the way to recovery. If they would have let everything collapse when it should have years ago, we could have come out on the other end 100x better off.

I don't know what's going to happen, but things are going to either get better or get worse. I think they're going to get worse BEFORE they get better. I hope in the future that the world's problems are completely solved. We do have the technology to end hunger, poverty, violence and all of the other modern plagues, but something keeps holding it back...

It is mathematically impossible to pay off the US national debt. Cutting programs does nothing to improve the situation, either way it will collapse eventually.

Someone should show the President this article.

Hell- give it to his entire administration and their followers.

It isnt lookin too good.

Hows that for doom and gloom?

We Are Broke. And They keep Spending.

..and the money they are spending is NOT for us.

..but we are the ones paying for it....isnt it Grand? Or short there-of?

Instead of cutting off the aid to the millions of Americans who need it, why don't we cut the defense budget by 60% ?

reply to post by freemarketsocialist

Remember when Obama and Geithner came over here, telling us how the American Way is so superior to ours?

Glad they were sent back home with a bump on the nose.

Maybe that is their entire plan....

Crash the Economy in order to revive it?

Maybe they are trying to "accidentally" bankrupt this nation in order to institute a new form of entitlement?

Maybe they think if we officially go bankrupt, then we can just "start over".

They sure do spend like they are out of control.

If some say it is mathmatically impossible to pay it back.. than that must mean IMO they are trying to avoid being held responsible for that debt, and are now trying to bankrupt itself on that debt. I owe you nothing now. ..Could THAT be possible?

Much of this basically is simply untrue and doom speak at best.

1: Even if the figure is 22% the reality is a lot of people choose to squeak by, America is like it or nor becoming somewhat more socialist with a greater portion of it's taxes coming from large corporations the actual budget plus from the lowest paid 10-15% of people if they choose not to work at all is not actually that much of a giant factor for a country spending 1 trillion on defense and only a few % of it's budget on social services.

The attitude of many people is different than it was during the last depression, the same man who during the great depression would be out in the street worrying about a family in his 30's ready to riot today might be Gay have a boyfriend who works, collect food stamps and make a couple hundred under the table as unreported income and just.... pay for xbox live with that and care...

Another big factor is women in the workplace

I'm not exactly sure how employment is assessed then compared to now but I do know the last depression didn't have a huge % of women working Jobs and stay at home dads were unheard of, so if during the great depression the OTHER half of the population wasn't employed and men were the judge of unemployment then figures like these represented a much bigger portion of the work force. I am pretty sure that when we made this into a 2 earner society America was definitely more prosperous and filling almost Everyone with jobs was possible...

With both sexes working if America is simply Ordinary... 22% not having or being able to find jobs actually is only tragic when gauged as this...ultra consumption ultra prosperous country realistically 50% of the adult population should be able to be unemployed before bread lines form and we could still be "the america of old" in regards to quality of life prior to the 1 Trillion dollar Military load that grew on the back of so called "feminism" which did nothing more but turn us into a slave labor society where women were forced to work.

2: "Can never be paid off"

Nonsense

Again the Trillion dollar Military lol, it's 32 years if that number is cut by 3/4 1/2 into payments and 1/4 into infrastructure...

Now factor in inflation and the rise of income from investment etc... maybe 20 years, maybe less who knows...

Either way it just really isn't that bleak, one way or another the war machine will halt or reap it's payoff

Understand, only 2 things can happen here, the US falters and the above scenario happens and we start paying off, of we end up with a great victory or series there of...

Lets say we go to war with china... 2 things happen we fail and then this whole Military industrial complex crumbles, it wont change the gdp much or for long, if we win well...what debt?

That's just a silly example not for debate

All i'm saying is spending a trillion a year for war wont last much longer the way things are going however it ends... when over America with all the farmland in the world plenty of water a huge number of universities will be prosperous fast again, that kind of money in infrastructure would pay off 16 trillion Faster than anyone imagines and all scenarios will lead to debt relief as well...it wont be that much

If this might be helpful, it's one of the resources I used to build my budget thread.

State by State Unemployment with Alternate Measure

The Alternative Measure that speaks of is represented by the figures across the table for each state. A different number under each heading of U-1 through U-6. U-3 is the official unemployment number everyone hears on TV. Here is their breakdown of definition to the different measure numbers, to show why visiting the link it worth a minute:

U-1, persons unemployed 15 weeks or longer, as a percent of the civilian labor force;
U-2, job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs, as a percent of the civilian labor force;
U-3, total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force (this is the definition used for the official unemployment rate);
U-4, total unemployed plus discouraged workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus discouraged workers;
U-5, total unemployed, plus discouraged workers, plus all other marginally attached workers, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers; and
U-6, total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers.

That is official the U.S. Gov Labor site and it appears this is a fairly new way they are presenting the numbers. It sure makes for a higher number than we hear announced.

88 Million out of work in a nation of 330 Million....where a fair % are either too young or old to work...makes far more than 8% in my estimation too. I guess it depends on the size of the official workforce, but that strikes me closer to 1/3rd or more. It's hard times any way one looks at it...no doubt.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
It is mathematically impossible to pay off the US national debt. Cutting programs does nothing to improve the situation, either way it will collapse eventually.

Like I said above it's mathematically impossible to do with a trillion dollar war machine rolling, a sudden change of scenarios could change the whole game.

In the end we have a budget of 4 Trillion a year... eventually something will give, maybe our government, maybe war victory, maybe war defeat, maybe revolution, maybe social revolution

maybe just technology... it's said a single asteroid mined can yield 17 Trillion in Platinum...

so many game changers... what if Israel and Iran fly nukes?

and the oil fields burn? America has almost 2 Trillion Barrels of Shale under it's soil viable for production of Gas reaches 7.00 plus per Gallon, so a nuke exchange in the ME.... well there is 17 Trillion dollars right thee plus another 80 trillion as the world has to buy from us...

theoretical examples, not for argument as to why this or that will or will not happen

something like I said will give sooner or later, these ideas are based on TODAY as a constant, life is not a constant

reply to post by muse7

Instead of cutting off the aid to the millions of Americans who need it, why don't we cut the defense budget by 60% ?

Because that would only eliminate about 1/3 of our deficit and the debt would keep growing.

You've got the right idea, but you're not going nearly far enough. (And no, I don't mean cutting 100% of the defense budget, we'd still have about half of our annual deficit.)

Originally posted by Common Good
Maybe that is their entire plan....

Crash the Economy in order to revive it?

Maybe they are trying to "accidentally" bankrupt this nation in order to institute a new form of entitlement?

Maybe they think if we officially go bankrupt, then we can just "start over".

They sure do spend like they are out of control.

If some say it is mathmatically impossible to pay it back.. than that must mean IMO they are trying to avoid being held responsible for that debt, and are now trying to bankrupt itself on that debt. I owe you nothing now. ..Could THAT be possible?

A fairly interesting "war" tactic of the US against the world would indeed be simply to default on our debts, declare bankruptcy so to speak.

In the end we have a decent infrastructure, all the water we need particularly if you factor in Canada, food enough to rot away...

Lol the rest of the world doesn't...

we would crash... dozens of economies and in the end, if we wee humanitarian to our own people no one actually has to loose a house, starve or anything else... heck we could scrap 50% of the Military too and maintaining 3000 nukes what would anyone actually be able to do about it? 2 fleets on each coast 3000 nukes... standing national guard = come get your buildings lol...

Frankly, if we want to be on top of the world.... Ron Paul would be our ultimo WMD

If we withdrew our forces world wide leaving power gaps? The whole world would be so busy fighting no one would be able to try

The economic mayhem would thrash everyone ... America is like, that redneck that wouldn't know when the zombie apocalypse started because they are just so far out there on the farm they don't care...

we live in the boonies after all... we have a well, ample land and food... and an arsenal

reply to post by penninja

I'm curious where your figures are coming from. The link in my signature shows where mine come from...and I see 3.7 Trillion as the 2012 Budget. 1.3 Trillion of which is a budget deficit and just over 700 Billion is Defense spending which DOES include "Overseas Contingency Funding" (yeah, the really call it that in the budget..lol). So if we outright redlined the military today and brought the whole thing to 0 funding. We'd still be running an annual deficit today of roughly 600 billion dollars. That's per year.

Of that which would remain, we still have a 1/4 trillion per year right now in just interest paid on the national debt. That is regardless of what debt or who holds it. The Gross interest due is almost twice that. This figure is after all the rest is taken off and accounted for. By 2017, that is over HALF a trillion in net payments due on interest to the national debt. You really don't want to know what 2022 looked like by the White House's own rosy projections.

Realspoke and I don't agree on much, but on this we agree entirely. The two solutions I see to the national debt are, as others noted and I admit myself, as bad or worse than the collapse this debt is going to bring. It breaks 20 TRILLION dollars by 2017...and that's really if unemployment falls below 6%, GDP growth doubles and a range of other assumptions the White House made in coming up with that figure all hold true.

We're in a world of serious hurt and that's no fear talk. It's straight talk...and straight from their own budget book.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by muse7

 

Instead of cutting off the aid to the millions of Americans who need it, why don't we cut the defense budget by 60% ?

Because that would only eliminate about 1/3 of our deficit and the debt would keep growing.

You've got the right idea, but you're not going nearly far enough. (And no, I don't mean cutting 100% of the defense budget, we'd still have about half of our annual deficit.)

True I might be exaggerating on that subject too...

I say half the military and then we'd have to get rid of our deficits, honestly tho if we stopped playing the global game that would be very, very, very easy

There is... very little this particular continent actually needs, NEEDS like as in we'd be screwed without... lots of nations need our bread basket to Survive, in the end we have all the leverage in the world

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by penninja

 

I'm curious where your figures are coming from. The link in my signature shows where mine come from...and I see 3.7 Trillion as the 2012 Budget. 1.3 Trillion of which is a budget deficit and just over 700 Billion is Defense spending which DOES include "Overseas Contingency Funding" (yeah, the really call it that in the budget..lol). So if we outright redlined the military today and brought the whole thing to 0 funding. We'd still be running an annual deficit today of roughly 600 billion dollars. That's per year.

Of that which would remain, we still have a 1/4 trillion per year right now in just interest paid on the national debt. That is regardless of what debt or who holds it. The Gross interest due is almost twice that. This figure is after all the rest is taken off and accounted for. By 2017, that is over HALF a trillion in net payments due on interest to the national debt. You really don't want to know what 2022 looked like by the White House's own rosy projections.

Realspoke and I don't agree on much, but on this we agree entirely. The two solutions I see to the national debt are, as others noted and I admit myself, as bad or worse than the collapse this debt is going to bring. It breaks 20 TRILLION dollars by 2017...and that's really if unemployment falls below 6%, GDP growth doubles and a range of other assumptions the White House made in coming up with that figure all hold true.

We're in a world of serious hurt and that's no fear talk. It's straight talk...and straight from their own budget book.

The black budget, puts it close to a Trillion, then you have a lot of miscellaneous which I'm sure bumps it higher "technically" like spook programs, for example I'm not even sure where the new NSA building comes from in Utah...

But as I see it

The deficits will end if we stop playing the Military game...

It isn't so much an "on paper thing" as common sense

we allow deficits to buy favor and play military games and gain support and play global politics...

If the US Military withdraws entirely... Europe HAS to spend to defend itself further, Japan HAS to spend to defend itself further, OZ, Israel, even Nations in latin America and Africa all have to UP the spending making them CONSUME more

That leaves quite a demand for Parts, labor from production and infra structure Decrease as manpower is shifted to defense (just like OUR situation) so other nations naturally become less competitive...

In a power vacuum there will be more wars not less, nations defeated need rebuilding, nations victorious need supplies...

The deficit would be gone almost over night my friend