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Please back this up with said scientific and empirical evidence.
They 'subscribe' to? That would be about right, it is a choice, or rather an aspect of nurture, it is not hardwired as you are trying to imply.
Imposing rules does not change thought processes, it merely penalises them.
There is nothing moral about denying women the freedom to feed their children in public because it may offend others, or arouse them.
That's your problem, not the woman's. Deal with it.
Well if it is natural while feel the need to conceal it?
I see men walking around topless all the time, in the summer that is, and I can control my 'impulse',
ame goes for a matriarchy while we're at it. I prefer progress and equality.
You can preserve that if that is what you want, your choice of spouse, the way you both raise your children...beyond that, you have to learn to live with the rights and freedoms that others have.
Why would a woman even want to feed in public?? That's what I would like to know.
If she wants to sit under a tree in a private area to suckle her child, I find nothing wrong with that. If, on the hand, she desires to breast feed on a public bench, I can help but wonder "why"?? Is she trying to make a public statement? Is she politicizing her motherhood?
Breast feeding isn't sexual.
Then, politicians influenced by Judeo-Christian morality made the activity illegal. That is simply one example of how that moral philosophy is repugnant.
It is entirely about control and conformity.
That paganism is one of many ways to achieve freedom.
Regarding your comments about the Greco-Roman world accepting Judaism. They didn't
Christianity was forced upon the inhabitants
That is the morality of Judeo-Christian thought
At least Romans would kill you relatively quickly.
You seem to be implying that any religion, philosophy, or practice that is non-Abrahamic in origin is somehow detrimental to society.
What about the people that do not want to live that way?
How is a discussion about feminism revolving mostly around women being topless?
What about the fact that a woman has the choice to abort a child which took BOTH parties to conceive yet a man has no choice to "abort" his obligation within the same time period? If one can choose to "not have their life ruined" or that it is "not the right time" why can't the other?
What about reducing requirements for firefighters and police officers to allow women equal access to these jobs when it can actually put people in danger?
Originally posted by dontreally
The other day I was with my sister and I passed by a woman cop that couldn't have been taller the 5'0. If I were in danger, what on earth could she do to help or protect me??
How can this be ignored? She isn't physically imposing enough - nay she's downright diminutive - to be serving in a position that requires her to sometimes come to other peoples physical protection.
Originally posted by Pinke
Soon as a male cop can walk into the women's night club bathroom without causing a riot, let me know?
Besides, where I come from police fitness tests for basic officers are downright useless anyway. One requirement is five push ups and clearing a 1.6 metre obstacle. This means I complete the police fitness test getting out of bed in the morning by accident.
Soon as a male cop can walk into the women's night club bathroom without causing a riot, let me know?
Besides, where I come from police fitness tests for basic officers are downright useless anyway. One requirement is five push ups and clearing a 1.6 metre obstacle. This means I complete the police fitness test getting out of bed in the morning by accident.
^Yep. Also, I've known some female cops that outperformed some of their male counterparts. There are always exceptions to these biological standards we seem to take for granted.
Regarding desensitization and your appalled astonishment that it can happen and relatively quickly, I advise you to look no further than Victorian pornography, where simply showing ankles and having women dressing (fully covered) in male attire was considered salacious.
Perceptions of appropriate dress can and do change based on context, time, and culture.
Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Biliverdin
Conversely, to enact laws that permit something which comes naturally - such as allowing woman to walk around topless - leaves very little room for someone who seeks to preserve his inner will, which means, to abide by a moral code, infinitely more difficult.
As a woman you seem to have very little understanding of what it is to be a man. It is not easy to turn away when you see an attractive woman; take off her top, and the will to look becomes almost intolerably hard to resist.
Why do you talk as if it's something in our power to control?? It's nature. Nature made man this way. Biology makes man respond this way. Your argument is as silly as blaming the depressive or obsessive person of being 'too weak' to "rise above" his or her depression or obsession. The THOUGHT fills your mind, grasps your attention and leaves you very little freedom to think of anything else. Hence, we enact laws against letting women walk around topless or nude because of the effect it has on Males.
Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Biliverdin
"Why would a woman even want to feed in public?? That's what I would like to know.
If she wants to sit under a tree in a private area to suckle her child, I find nothing wrong with that. If, on the hand, she desires to breast feed on a public bench, I can help but wonder "why"?? Is she trying to make a public statement? Is she politicizing her motherhood? "
If you are a father, I take it your wife never breastfed your child. I can come up with lots of examples of a mother needing to nurse in public. Here's one to enlighten you:
A mother is at a park to let her 4 -year-old play. She has brought her infant because dad is at work and the baby needs fresh air and sunshine. Baby gets hungry. The park is surrounded by males, females, children, parents, grandparents, etc...
There are no trees nearby so she can nurse in shame.
Would you rather her nurse on the park bench where she can feed her little one and keep an eye on her 4-year -old, or have her take her 4 year old away from his new found friends to go nurse in a hot car for a half hour?
A mother, who cares about both her children, will say to hell with perverted people, and stay on the bench nursing her baby and watching her son play with new friends.
edit on 10-9-2012 by collietta because: Couldn't separate the quote box, so took the box out.
I'm wondering, if men are so weak and can not control themselves when a woman is topless (attractiveness is relative), then how come men in other cultures have no problem controlling themselves? What makes western men (or your) biology so much weaker than what you call primitive?
At nude and non-nude beaches around the world, men don't suddenly become beasts when they see a barely dressed women. Male gynecologists also find ways to control their "nature" and they are being very invasive.
Children see their mothers topless
These children aren't harmed by seeing the purpose of the breast.
Please explain how children seeing a woman topless will put immoral thoughts into their mind?
Personally I think it's a culture, not biology that makes something sexual.