A Brief Rant On Religion

Typically, I am very tolerant of religions. I have my opinions, and may express them freely. This does not mean that I harbor any ill feelings or will interact negatively with anyone. It is just a matter of philosophy, which I personally hold in high regard. On occasions where I am speaking personally with someone who is not up for discussion on these matters (but rather is seeking a pulpit from which to operate), I retreat and just try to get out of the situation. One thing is for certain: militant viewpoints are unalterable through rational discussion.

Nonetheless, I find myself in a difficult situation where my feelings on the topic of religious beliefs is likely to cause some issue in my own personal life. Over the last 3 days my best friend (truly, my only friend) has been in and out of consciousness in ICU. He has internal bleeding, and is not in a condition which allows them to explore for the location. It is presumed to be GI, likely at the junction of upper and lower (he is a gastric bypass patient from about 18 months ago). Not to bore you with needless details...just some background.

He is not "religious", although he does harbor behaviors related to his religious programming from his childhood. Being raised Jehova's Witness, his religious programming is a bit different than your average Christian. One of the major doctrines of his church's faith (and I said "his church's faith" loosely, as he was excommunicated from the only church he ever attended for some nonsense that JW's tend to excommunicate people over like wearing his drawers to high or his loafers too light...I don't know which) is that you cannot receive a blood transfusion. Out of habit, purely out of habit, he checked that box when he was being rushed through admissions, already running on about 6.2L of blood. Obviously, he was in no condition to make that decision at that time....nonetheless....

...it took some miracles to get him into a condition that he was cognizant enough to realize that he was going to die if he didn't accept blood. Of course, he was unconscious for a majority of the time, so it was hard to make him aware of anything. But the internal bleeding must not be bad enough when he doesn't eat that the NPO status he had for 48 hours while he was unconscious allowed him to regenerate enough blood to "wake up". And he almost passed out again when it was explained to him that he almost died, that he has a bad bleed internally, and that it is presumed to be in the pyloric sphincter region. When he eats it agitates it and make it bleed. Profusely. About 30 minutes later he expels blood from the back.

When I say "almost died" I am serious. I almost lost my only real friend (well...other than my wife and kids). We have known each other for 20 years, a little more. All because of a time before that 20 years when he was indoctrinated into a belief system.

Be VERY wary of what you teach your kids. It may kill them one day. His mother regrets ever introducing him to the church after this incident. And he still isn't in the clear, as his RBC is still very low, and they have yet to determine and repair the cause of the bleed. But it seems as though that is a matter of process, with the primary risk being that of surgery (the doctor is confident, and says he has seen this a few hundred times...they are at "the methodist" hospital in San Antonio).

I sure would have hated to have his mother knowing that her instruction to him as a child was the cause of his death. I love her like my own mother. Had he not regained consciousness, he would have bled to death and the doctors would have been powerless to stop it.

One of those moment where it's good to remember that we CAN be wrong, no?

And God bless him. He needs it now.

I don't want to get too much into the religion aspect tonight but I wanted to wish you and your friend the best. It's so hard seeing someone you care about go through that type of thing and I really hope everything works out well.

A good Shepherd of any religion should never encourage you forego common sense for zealously. If they do then run.

It offends common sense to believe prayer will fix any physical condition beyond a psychosomatic reaction.

hope that your friend stabilizes enough for them to repair the damage... sad to hear you may lose a friend because he was brainwashed with primitive superstition when he was young ... hang in there and continue to be there for your friend ... he needs all the support he can get at this point.. never easy losing friends.. outlived everyone Ive known ...

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Yes, Jesus Himself had much to say about religion - of which NONE of it was complimentary or accrediting.
Your warning is timely and true - be careful what you believe!
Jesus said that you will know a tree by the fruit that it bares.
As a basic starting point, any belief system that doesn't sanctify the value of life, or in this case the preservation of life, should be regarded as unacceptable and unworthy of even ones attention. Period.

My prayers are with your friend and his family. I pray for his total healing and restoration in the Name of Jesus. My prayers are also with you and your family - for comfort, encouragement and ease of worry.
May God Bless you friend.

I hope your friend pulls through. The blood issue has changed so many time.Now it is basically a conscience decision but you still can be disfellowshipped Most still hold true to the old belief to no blood at all out of guilt. They can have parts of the blood but not the whole thing. Its like having a ham sandwich without the bread.If they take no blood they have passed the test and prove good in god's eyes.....Hang in there and I hope things go well

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Once some Jehovah's witnesses came to my door preaching about how we aren't supposed to accept blood transfusions. I disagreed but I did accept their literature. The bible verses they highlighted made it sound like what they were proposing was right, but I took it upon myself to look up the verses in my own bible and proceeded to read the entire chapter.

Needless to say when I finished reading the verses in the entire context it meant something very different to me than what they had presented. What I gleaned from reading the whole chapter was that we aren't to drink the blood or eat the flesh of our enemies that we defeat in battle- as was the custom of some of the tribes in that time period. Apparently then they thought if you drank the blood and ate the heart of your defeated enemy you gained their courage and strength.

Anyway, that's what I got from it. I don't listen to them anymore, but they continue to try. I just take their literature and close the door.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


My thoughts are with you and your friend, Big Guy. Hope everything turns out okay for him,

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Religion was created by people.

Not saying God isnt real. Just saying that religious teachings regarding God are made up stories.

A star and a flag from a former JW here. Nearly my entire family are still In the organization so I know the importance of the subject you bring up. My father was really lucky to survive heart surgery a couple years ago. He too refused blood and I watched as my brother sisters and mom all heartily endorsed his decision prior to the surgery. They viewed his survival as Jehovah rewarding their faith. My underage nieces and nephews all wear bracelets expressing their parents desire that no blood be used in the event of a medical emergency and the parents not be there to deny the blood. They take no chances in this regard. Someday like many other strident rules set forth by the Watchtower bible and tract society, I suspect the blood rule will be revoked in view of what they call "new light" or new enlightenment in bible understanding. Sadly how many will have died needlessly in the meantime. I wish the best for your friend. My sympathy for your situation.

I've had experience with JW's, and I have heard numerous accounts of people dying because they were forbidden to receive a blood transfusion. This cult has the blood of many on its hands. They are a cold, controlling religion and don't give a crap about anyone once they are indoctrinated and baptised. As long as people do as they are told, do their required amount of witnessing, and pay their donations, they will be fine. But as soon as there's a problem, that's when they show their true colours. I found this out the hard way, when I was really sick. They would not accept I was sick, they came round and literally dragged me out. That was when I woke up.

It really is disgusting how religion, through ignorance and misinterpretation of fairy stories, destroys so many lives. It needs to be obliterated from the face of the planet. It is a completely outdated system. Humans have developed far more meaningful and productive ways to congregate and enjoy life, such as music, sports, etc.. And political systems do not need to be religious either. Obviously, some of the laws are based on religious laws, but as we advanced as a species, we should do away with the superstition and concentrate on reality.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

I want to be extra careful how I respond to your post. One because I appreciate your posts, your points of view and though we don't always agree - the way and manner you present your opinions here on ATS is what makes ATS the place I want to be on the web.

Second - Because I'm wondering if in your grief and fear of losing your friend - your care and concern for him - you're losing sight of something of most importance for all of us. Free will.

Regardless of your friends choices? He's practiced his free will in taking the risks of practicing his religion. That religion is involved should not be the issue.

What if he was practicing his 'free will' by participating in an extreme sport? He could get hurt and he could die. Horribly. In my mind it's no different than him practicing his free will in choosing what he believes in. Isn't religion all about how we want to live our life vs. what we believe is good for us and what is not?

Maybe I'm muddling this all up what's important is - any friend of yours must be someone truly special. I can't imagine you ever advising him to go against what he believes in - just because it made you and everyone else feel better in the heat of the moment, or even to save his life.

ME? I lost my husband due to the infiltration of JW in his life. BUT! It was HIS choice, HIS life and HIS salvation - not mine. Would I go back and take that right from him? Never. I would think this is something you and I could agree on.

peace to you and prayers for you all

gracie

Everyone here has to remember, all of these rules were put in place due to lack of the medical knowledge necessary to prevent any problems that might arise from what would, at that point, been considered risky. Because of that lack of medical knowledge.

It's time to wake up, people. What worked back then doesn't work now. And what works now wouldn't have worked then. These are not identical times, these are DIFFERENT times, more ADVANCED times, and treating this era like the 1200's is just a half step above idiotic.

Get with the times, or get out of line. You're holding us up, and we really want to get on with growing. What's the point if living if we can't get better at it?

When it's said that more people have died in the name of religion over anything else, it is no lie.

Hope your friend recovers mate

Paul himself tells you in the bible that it is entirely an Allegory... Allegory is a form of extended metaphor, in which objects, persons, and actions in a narrative, are equated with the meanings that lie outside the narrative itself. The underlying meaning has moral, social, religious, or political significance, and characters are often personifications of abstract ideas as charity, greed, or envy.
The bible cannot be taken literally nor as a history book. It is a Great Book and one can learn many, many things from it if it is used correctly. Peeps need to use their minds when they read something...When is the last time you saw a snake talk to a person? How about a donkey talking to a person? How about the last time you saw a giant fish swallow a man and 3 days later the man comes out of the fish preaching? Things like this Do Not Happen in This World nor will they ever happen in This World...When you read something like this ask yourself, can this really happen in in our world at this time? If the answer is NO, then look for what it really might be saying. Like, would there be a man named Jesus (a hispanic name) in Israel? Would there be people named paul, peter, mary, james, (all english names) in Israel? As you can see these named people were really never there.They were just people used by the Greek Mythologist to explain a parable to you. Anyway, just understand that the bible is an important book of allegory and lots can be obtained from it if you know how to really read it. There is 1 great Creator and He/She has a Kingdom and as jesus said that kingdom is inside each of us. Stop looking outside of yourself for a saviour, if you need one, look inward. Namaste....

P/S...See Bill Donahues work at "HiddenMeanings" on the internet for more info....

I'll start my reply with a simple I hope your friend gets better soon, and I'll pray for him.

Your rant on Religion, is really a rant on a small something within a Religion, with the point that you should be careful what you teach your kids. That's fine. Now, over in my Brooklyn neighborhood there is a predominately Jewish Hospital, probably the best Hospital out here.Those Jewish doctors save lives day in and day out, the stepping stone for their success and hard work to save lives was their RELIGION. I've had surgery done in that Hospital twice in my life, one when I was about 2 for a hernia, and one 16 years later, for a recent emergency. Both surgeries went well, and those well educated JEWISH doctors are a blessing to me and many. I thank God they were raised with the right morals and through their belief were hard at work their entire lives to become something great in society.

I'm just wondering, how would you feel if a Doctor was able to save your friends life and in front of you grabbed his hand and said God Bless you I'll pray for your recovery. Would you be on ATS "ranting" about how this man was out of line mentioning God? And that you should be careful what you teach your kids because you might run into a situation like that. Rethink your rant on a broader scale.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I want to be extra careful how I respond to your post. One because I appreciate your posts, your points of view and though we don't always agree - the way and manner you present your opinions here on ATS is what makes ATS the place I want to be on the web.

Second - Because I'm wondering if in your grief and fear of losing your friend - your care and concern for him - you're losing sight of something of most importance for all of us. Free will.

Regardless of your friends choices? He's practiced his free will in taking the risks of practicing his religion. That religion is involved should not be the issue.

What if he was practicing his 'free will' by participating in an extreme sport? He could get hurt and he could die. Horribly. In my mind it's no different than him practicing his free will in choosing what he believes in. Isn't religion all about how we want to live our life vs. what we believe is good for us and what is not?

Maybe I'm muddling this all up what's important is - any friend of yours must be someone truly special. I can't imagine you ever advising him to go against what he believes in - just because it made you and everyone else feel better in the heat of the moment, or even to save his life.

ME? I lost my husband due to the infiltration of JW in his life. BUT! It was HIS choice, HIS life and HIS salvation - not mine. Would I go back and take that right from him? Never. I would think this is something you and I could agree on.

peace to you and prayers for you all

gracie

edit on 9-9-2012 by silo13 because: punctuation

The thing is, he has never really practiced a religion. He is wholly secular. He just hangs on to the customs of the religion he was exposed to as a child. In this case, it almost killed him. I suspect it will cause him to reflect a little more on matters of faith and spirituality. He and I have talked at length in the past. His actual beliefs would be classified more as deist. He knows something is out there....just not what.

First off, I'd like to say that I pray that your friend recovers and they find the source of the bleeding.

Second, looking at your post, I do have to agree with your point of being careful with what you believe. I'm Shaiva Hindu (Worshipper of Shiva) and I can tell you some practices can get a little out of hand, be them more mainstream and regional. We've all heard the stories of Sattee- burning the widow of a deceased man on his pyre, regardless of whether she wants to live, the cannibal Aghoris that smear the ash (bhasma) of dead people on their bodies, and many instances of where people had to marry animals in order to appeal local gods [links below for the curious]

My parents have discouraged me from practicing my faith using these examples (along with saying the use of cow excrement in Indian cuisine), but since Hinduism is a fairly fluid religion, I stick to the bare bones of what I believe: Karma influences the next life, your soul is permanent, the body is not, and abstaining from the meat of the cow (any Indian/Hindu ATSers want to call validity to some parts of India eating beef, because Predominately Christian Household says that happens too).

Now I'm not saying Hinduism is better, I'm just going off on your examples that not all religions are perfect in their belief system.

Satee
Aghori
Indian Woman Burned Alive-BBC
news.bbc.co.uk..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Man Marries Dog

Religious belief of some sort is almost universal among human beings. That's not an accident. Religious beliefs range from the vague comfort offered by a vague faith in some superior and benevolent being to very specific reliance on "allies" in the spirit world that are used to protect one and to wreak havoc on one's enemies. The gamut is very wide with many variations thoughout.

That is not mere happenstance. Religion is there, whether we like it or not and it will be there as long as human beings need help that they cannot get from one another.

Having said that, I quote my favorite quote from the field of psychiatry, "People are nutty."

Consequently, religion is nutty too, sometimes.

Best wishes to you and your friend, from a heavily laden, but confident Buddhist. Namo Buddhaya