Obama has declared himself the messiah?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

there is no such thing really as a GROUP,

NewAgeMan, the first time I read this phrase I was going to let it slide. But then you reiterated it. There is very much "such thing as a GROUP". I can't imagine how you dismiss the dynamics of social interaction as "nonexistent."

Group dynamics is a very well studied and documented theory. When I was a kid in the marching band (yeah yeah, mock it all you like, folks)...our conductor used to say "We are only as good as our weakest member. Please stay in formation!" And we won championship after championship....because we all believed it.

Anyway, this is rather off-topic so I'll not take up band-width on it (heh, pun not intended, but I'll leave it anyway )...

I suggest you perhaps rethink your assessment. We are interdependent. That's all there is to it.

I agree with you about the balance, however. As a group grows larger, and individual "wanna"s come into play, individual freedoms must be considered. Look at traffic laws, for example. We mostly all obey them, because we know if we don't, someone's going to wind up dead. Group dynamics are an inextricable fact of "society", whether it's two roommates, or 300 million people...have you heard of "game theory"? The best society is one in which everyone gains...Non Zero Sum.....by cooperating.

Have a look at Robert Wright's book Non Zero, or at least the website (that's the link

reply to post by queenannie38


It's funny to see the lengths people go to defend their Dear Leader Obama.

First off, Farrakhan was not speaking in metaphors. Listen to what he said at Saviour's day. He said it there for a reason not as some metaphor. Of course he changed things up when he was asked about it. He wasn't going to come out and say, yeah I think Obama is the Messiah. He didn't have to because he already said it.

He didn't want to be a hindrance to Obama and he didn't want the spotlight to turn to his relationship with Rev. Wright. Obama's spiritual mentor for 20 years who gave Farrakhan an award and who went to Libya with Farrakhan.

You then try to twist the entire Bible to fit Barack's ideology. It's really sad how far people will go to support Barack. Nobody means what they say and even the Bible has to change to fit Barack's Black Liberation Theology.

The Bible doesn't talk about Collective Salvation. So please don't try to twist the Bible just to support Obama.

IF YOU CAN'T SUPPORT OBAMA WITHOUT TRYING TO CHANGE THE MEANING OF EVERYTHING TO SUPPORT HIM, THEN MAYBE YOU NEED TO QUESTION YOUR RELIGIOUS SUPPORT FOR HIM.

Obama was taught Black Liberation Theology. So, if you support Obama, you have to accept this fact.

He said his individual salvation depends on a collective salvation of the Country. This is radical and religious zealotry. If Bush or Reagan had said this, the same followers of Obama would be crying in the streets and using terms like theocracy.

Black Liberation treats Jesus as a victim and the first lynching. This is why Obama's individual salvation doesn't depend on Jesus but on collective salvation.

Black Liberation Theology says if God is white then we better kill him. Again, if Paul Ryan belonged to a Church whose founder said, if God is black we better kill him, the Obama followers would be crying in the streets and this would be the top news story every night.

Black Liberation Theology is dangerous because it takes something like lynching and slavery, which draws strong emotions of hatred and mixes it with Religion which draws strong emotions as well. When you combine the two, you justify hatred.

Listen to what Farrakhan said:



It wasn't any metaphor. He said when the messiah speaks, the youth will listen and the messiah is absolutely speaking. Of course he's going to walk it back after he said it because the people who understand what he was saying heard it.

Here's more from Black Liberation Theology

The fact that I am black is my ultimate reality. … It is impossible for me to surrender this basic reality for a “higher, more universal” reality. Black theology knows no authority more binding than the experience of oppression itself.

– James Cone, “Black Theology, Black Power”

The white God is an idol, created by the racist bastards, and we black people must perform the iconoclastic task of smashing their false images.

– James Cone, “A Black Theology of Liberation”

Again, Black Liberation Theology redefines the Bible. So the Bible is seen through the eyes of slavery and lynching not the Redemption of man through Christ. Here's more:

What does the name (Christ) mean when black people are burning buildings and white people are responding with riot-police control? Whose side is Jesus on? The norm of black theology, which identifies revelation as a manifesta­tion of the black Christ, says that he (Christ) is those very blacks whom white society shoots and kills. The contemporary Christ is in the black ghetto, making decisions about white existence and black liberation.

Of course, this interpretation of theology will seem strange to most whites, and even some blacks will wonder whether it is really true that Christ is black. But the truth of the statement is not dependent on white or black affirmation, but on the reality of Christ himself who is presently breaking the power of white racism. This and this alone is the norm for black-talk about God.

So the goal is the destruction of America which represents whiteness and change and transform it to represent blackness as defined by Black Liberation Theology.

It has nothing to do with altruism. People who are ignorant of Black Liberation Theology will not understand what Obama is saying when he says, my individual salvation depends on a collective salvation for the Country. It has nothing to do with peace and harmony and everything to do with the destruction of whiteness which is represented by America.

reply to post by neoholographic

Obama was taught Black Liberation Theology. So, if you support Obama, you have to accept this fact.

Sir, are you Mr Obama? Were you sitting next to him in every class he took? Were you his childhood bff? law-school study-buddy? Just because someone is taught something does not mean they strive every moment living it with every breath and every word and thought.

I was taught many things in college (it's called a liberal arts education), but only a few of them are now applied to my life. I also learned about things that I completely discarded. Unless you can show Mr Obama saying "I AM THE MESSIAH", you have started trouble out of nothing but your imagination. Even the preacher man said "a harbinger of the Messiah", not "THE messiah". Get it straight. Stop putting words in that you select, and leaving out words that utterly change the message. Not fair. Nor honest.

YOU are the one who keeps making this about Religion. Nothing I have seen indicates he is some kind of religious zealot. It is YOU who are projecting onto the man. Shame on you for pigeon-holing and assuming you know him personally.

You are also conveniently ignoring the fact that "salvation" does NOT necessarily mean "religious/spiritual salvation". It's been pointed out to you repeatedly. Sheesh. Can you tone down the rampant exaggeration and hostility please? You're starting to look like a hard-core hater who is deliberately trying to twist things into what YOU want others to see.

It's not appropriate.

reply to post by wildtimes

When we lose our own individuality and unique individual spiritual experience in favor of group-think, we lose the very best part of what makes us human.

It is the individual and individual liberty which is the very keystone in the royal arch across which humanity may begin to pass, one by one into a new domain of limitless possibility.

Of course no man is an island and we're interdependant I get that, but to subjugate individuality or to lessen it in any way shape or form in favor of group dynamics is a sin, it's evil.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I've never espoused eradicating individuality. Every person is unique, and has something to offer the world, if they are allowed and encouraged to do so. Wanting for a collective group to ALL prosper, each in relation to what s/he has to offer, is not by definition stifling individuality.

It's validating one another's unique experience and strengths and talents, and being allowed to express our own, that makes for good society.

reply to post by wildtimes


Again, another case of trying to redefine what Obama is saying. You said:

You are also conveniently ignoring the fact that "salvation" does NOT necessarily mean "religious/spiritual salvation".

Yes it does. This is why he said my individual salvation depends on a collective salvation of the country. Collective salvation is more important than individual salvation in Black Liberation Theology. Cone said:

The fact that I am black is my ultimate reality. … It is impossible for me to surrender this basic reality for a “higher, more universal” reality. Black theology knows no authority more binding than the experience of oppression itself.

– James Cone, “Black Theology, Black Power”

THERE'S NO AUTHORITY MORE BINDING THAN THE EXPERIENCE OF OPPRESSION ITSELF.

Again, this is why Obama's individual salvation doesn't depend on Jesus because social justice(collective salvation) is more binding than what Jesus did on the Cross.

Sadly for followers of Obama, they want to live in an alternative reality. This also shows Obama wasn't vetted. Many Obama followers know nothing about Black Liberation Theology.

If a white politician belonged to a Church whose founder said if God is black we better kill him, he wouldn't get anywhere near the Presidency.

Black Liberation Theology is about the destruction of whiteness.

Cone: “Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.”

More Cone:

Cone: “For white people, God’s reconciliation in Jesus Christ means that God has made black people a beautiful people; and if they are going to be in relationship with God, they must enter by means of their black brothers, who are a manifestation of God’s presence on earth. The assumption that one can know God without knowing blackness is the basic heresy of the white churches. They want God without blackness, Christ without obedience, love without death. What they fail to realize is that in America, God’s revelation on earth has always been black, red, or some other shocking shade, but never white. Whiteness, as revealed in the history of America, is the expression of what is wrong with man. It is a symbol of man’s depravity. God cannot be white even though white churches have portrayed him as white. When we look at what whiteness has done to the minds of men in this country, we can see clearly what the New Testament meant when it spoke of the principalities and powers. To speak of Satan and his powers becomes not just a way of speaking but a fact of reality. When we can see a people who are controlled by an ideology of whiteness, then we know what reconciliation must mean. The coming of Christ means a denial of what we thought we were. It means destroying the white devil in us. Reconciliation to God means that white people are prepared to deny themselves (whiteness), take up the cross (blackness) and follow Christ (black ghetto).”

Again, it's about the destruction of whiteness which is represented by America. So white people can't be in a relationship with God unless they go through black people. This is just nonsense but it's nonsense that our President learned from Rev. Wright for 20 years.

In an interview Cone was asked which Church most embodies his message and he said Trinity. The Church that Obama attended.

www.mcclatchydc.com...

However, the idea of a "collective salvation" is an interesting one I have to admit, and an interesting application of the Christian ideal.
A "Bodhisatva" is one who is willing to remain part of the human family for as many lifetimes as it takes for one and all to achieve absolute liberation and enlightenment, and we are one human family.
If there's a new day or a new age in our collective future, we need to cross that bridge, together. One cannot go alone and leave everyone else behind, it just doesn't work that way. So I underestand what it means, and it was Jesus' prayer in the Garden of Gethsemene that we be "so one" that we will know Jesus was Godsent. This is spiritual oneness in "one accord".
That said, how can one take responsibility for enlightening all the a-holes that abound who are as stuborn as mules and dumb as rocks, and who hate even the idea of "one accord" "in the spirit".
Even Jesus said that there comes a time when we must "leave the dead to bury their dead"..

reply to post by neoholographic

Definition of SALVATION

1
a : deliverance from the power and effects of sin
b : the agent or means that effects salvation
c Christian Science : the realization of the supremacy of infinite Mind over all bringing with it the destruction of the illusion of sin, sickness, and death
2
: liberation from ignorance or illusion
3
a : preservation from destruction or failure
b : deliverance from danger or difficulty

First: semantic clarity:

Exclude item 1. What Other Definitions Do You See Here? Please answer the question for the class.

Second: Cone is not running for President! And he is not Mr Wright! Neither is Mister Wright running for President!

You want to attack based on religious background??? A Mormon?? The faith that has been proven to be founded on lies and delusions espoused by J. Smith?

God save us....the POTUS is supposed to be leading everyone DESPITE THEIR RELIGIOUS STANDINGS.

I can't tell if you are a young Republican, or a retired racist who is stuck in the 1960s.

He's as much white as he is black. His mother was from small-town Kansas, for crying out loud!!!

Get over his race. I don't care if he's purple or an albino. The President needs to lead ALL of the people, AWAY from slavery, poverty, and war.

AND, edit to add: I don't see where Obama was ever "disenfranchised" or "oppressed" -- although he was effectively abandoned by his Kenyan father.

Originally posted by neoholographic
It has nothing to do with altruism. People who are ignorant of Black Liberation Theology will not understand what Obama is saying when he says, my individual salvation depends on a collective salvation for the Country. It has nothing to do with peace and harmony and everything to do with the destruction of whiteness which is represented by America.

People who are ignorant of the US Constitution might, in turn, have trouble understanding what Obama is saying.

And it is was YOU that made this about Jesus...The United States of America is not designed to be about Jesus but rather to protect those who want their lives to be about Jesus...or Allah..or Buddha...or even George Carlin.

I have not twisted the bible at all...just reminded of you of what you seem to value as ideal...yet your own zealotry shows otherwise.

If there is no America...you will no longer be an American.

That is the salvation Obama is talking about. Quit putting religion where it does not belong...ANYONE's religion.

It's truly sad to see Obama followers that can't accept reality. In a way though, it's eye opening. It shows how blindly people followed Obama.

If you can't accept Obama and his Black Liberation Theology, then that's something you will just have to deal with because Obama had no problem accepting it.

Rev. Wright would still be Obama's spiritual leader but he knew he couldn't become President without cutting ties with him. At first, Obama was not going to let go of his Black Liberation Theology mentor.

Here's Obama throwing his Grandmother under the Bus to support Rev. Wright before he was forced to cut ties.



Rev. Wright preached Black Liberation Theology. Cone said the best Church that embodies his message is Trinity, which is Obama's Church.

Black Liberation puts individual salvation second to social justice or collective salvation. This is religious and that's the danger. They elevate that feeling of hatred because of slavery and lynching to religious levels just like the Nation of Islam.

The Nation of Islam distorts Islam the religion. Black Liberation Theology distorts Christianity and turns Jesus into a victim that was lynched.

At the end of the day, if you can't accept the fact that Obama speaks Black Liberation Theology fluently and went to his Black Liberation Theology mentors Church for 20 years, then that's really your problem and it's a sad one.

We shouldn't turn politicians to gods because then we can't accept that their mere men or women.

If Bush or Reagan talked about collective salvation, the same people who defend Obama would be crying in the streets about a Theocracy.

This is why Obama said in his recent speech, my path is harder. Of course it is because the goal is to destroy whiteness represented by America and change and transform it to blackness(collective salvation,social justice).

reply to post by neoholographic


Is social justice really that abhorrent to you?

Really????

Why do you keep bringing up Jesus and then go on to give the idea that to you, social justice threatens everything America is supposed to stand for?

Or maybe a better question would be: What does America stand for (represent/signify/etc) for YOU, personally?

I'm thinking perhaps we might not share the same view of America as a nation. If so, then the disagreement is understandable.

Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by neoholographic

 

Is social justice really that abhorrent to you?

Really????

I can't speak for him, but for myself, "abhorrent" is a terribly anemic term that does not even begin to cover the contempt I hold that non-existent, oxymoronic concept in.

Or maybe a better question would be: What does America stand for (represent/signify/etc) for YOU, personally?

I'm thinking perhaps we might not share the same view of America as a nation. If so, then the disagreement is understandable.

Perhaps not. America represents freedom and liberty to me, not the slavery of conformity to a collective. That's for ants and bees, not humans.

reply to post by nenothtu


So, to you, freedom and liberty are totally antithetical to social justice?
Just wanting to make sure.

I need to ask you, then, just so I know that I am not misunderstanding you based on semantics...how do you define 'social justice?'
I'm sure we probably share the same definition for freedom and liberty, but perhaps social justice doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does to me.

Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by nenothtu

 

So, to you, freedom and liberty are totally antithetical to social justice?
Just wanting to make sure.

Yes. Freedom and liberty are real. "Social justice" is not.

I need to ask you, then, just so I know that I am not misunderstanding you based on semantics...how do you define 'social justice?'

I define it as an oxymoron. "Justice" is a legal term, not a social one.

I'm sure we probably share the same definition for freedom and liberty, but perhaps social justice doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does to me.

Probably not. It means nothing to me beyond a cute catch phrase designed to dupe the unwary and make cannon fodder out of them.

reply to post by neoholographic
Obama is the last king of the kingdom of man from Daniel chapters 7 and 11. He is the 11th president or king of the US since Israel became a nation under President Truman in 1948. I have blog post that quotes the scripture and explains it at danielbarzohar.blogspot.com.