About Tonopah Test Range

I've been interesting in knowing about this facility just like area 51. What I'm really interested to know is, are there anonymous security guards at ttr as well? (Cammy dudes/People in the trucks). And do they stay on a hill watching you just like by the area 51 signs? Compared to area 51, how heavy is the security there? Is everything tested or made there also classified?

From Wikipedia: Tonopah Test Range (TTR), also known as Area 52,[1] is a restricted military installation located about 30 miles (48 km) southeast of Tonopah, Nevada. It is part of the northern fringe of the Nellis Range, measuring 625 sq mi (1,620 km2). Tonopah Test Range is located about 70 miles (110 km) northwest of Groom Dry Lake, home of the Area 51 facility. Like the Groom Lake facility, Tonopah is a site of interest to conspiracy theorists, mostly for its use of experimental and classified aircraft. As such, it is not the focus of alien enthusiasts, unlike its neighbor. It is currently used for nuclear weapons stockpile reliability testing, research and development of fusing and firing systems, and testing nuclear weapon delivery systems.[2] The airspace comprises restricted area R-4809 of the Nevada Test and Training Range and is often used for military training.

Camo Dudes only operate on the Groom Lake Base perimeter (Detachment 3, AFFTC) they are private security contractors dependent of a civilian commander inside the base, within the Base are the Military Police or Air Police (USAF Security Forces). TTR Safety is totally different to Groom Lake. That is, it has been said that TTR security can talk with you, unlike camo dudes,that is completely the opposite.

TTR, is owned by DOE, and security may be carried out by a contractor. I guess to some extent, like Groom Lake, there are several companies offering security to these bases. I'm sure that gariac know better than me.

I think that they hire various private security contractors and their career contracts are temporary, to perform a efficient compartimentalization of the range.

the Tonopah test range was used for several projects. Two stand out in my mind.

The first was the "Red Eagles" which was a program to test "acquired" Soviet MIGs. en.wikipedia.org...

Here is picture from Wikipedia of a MIG23 that is stated to be taken at Tonopah.



And a MIG-21





I now that it is MOST famous for housing the F-117A Nighthawk stealth fighter after it's prototypes were tested at Groom Lake/Area 51. This is where it went into Squadron Service even thought it was still classified. Once the plane was revealed tot he public and flew in Desert Storm it was moved to Holloman AFB, NM.

Now that the F117 is retired the wings have been removed and the planes have been decomissioned and put into storage back in there original hangers (climate controlled) back in Tonopah. At least a portion of them are stored in a manner that they could be returned to service if needed. I think there was some brief talk of also selling them to allies such Britian, but they are board with the F-35 program now.

en.wikipedia.org...

most of the F-117s were retired to their original hangars at the Tonopah Test Range Airport.[40] At Tonopah, their wings were removed and the aircraft are stored in their original climate-controlled hangars.[56] The decommissioning occurred in eight phases, with the operational aircraft retired to Tonapah in seven waves beginning on 13 March 2007, and ending with the last wave's arrival on 22 April 2008.[2][40] Four aircraft were kept flying beyond April by the 410th Flight Test Squadron at Palmdale for flight test. By the beginning of August, two were remaining. The last F-117 (AF ser. no. 86-0831) left Palmdale to fly to Tonopah on 11 August 2008. This was the last flight of an F-117.[40][57] With the last aircraft retired, the 410th was deactivated in a ceremony on 1 August 2008.[58]

Now, what's weird is that this next video was supposidly shot at the Nellis Test Range, (although in the youtube notes the author says they won't say exactly where, it's a big range, including Area 51, Tonopah, Indian Springs, and Nellis) with a date verbally stated on the video that says July 27, 2010. That's 2 years after retirement. I had heard at one time that Lockheed has one at the company they still fly for testing and so forth ( I heard this from a Reserve KC-135 tanker boom operator, who refueled it that past week). But who knows. Maybe a detachment is still flying out of Tonopah. Maybe other countries are evaluating them for sale.

I have a document dump of sorts about the TTR here:
www.lazygranch.com...
Because the TTR isn't in the black, they have to conform to some rules and regulation, certainly environmental laws. Thus you can learn a lot about the place, especially from the environmental reports. [The same is true about the NTS.]

The F117a flights are real. I've run down the sources of the video. Where is it based hasn't been determined. If they used a KC135 rcently, then it wasn't a Sierra 99 flight.

The only correction I see needed in this thread is that the DOE doesn't run the TTR. Even with all the documents dumped by the USAF and the DOE, I'm still not sure who is in charge. That is, when the USAF talks about the TTR, they can be referring to their portion of the base. Same goes for the DOE. The DOE and USAF have different buses. It wouldn't surprise me if they have different chow halls. They probably share the Mancamp. Documents indicate Sandia uses the mancamp, but certainly there must be USAF airmen TDY at the TTR.

Per Tom Mahood's investigation, if you work at Site-4, you use the Janets. We know from the crash of N27RA that JT3 visits both Groom and the TTR. Thus the bases are linked, if only by contractors, but most likely in other ways too.

At the very least Tonopah and Area 51 are probably divert fields for each other.

I thought that TTR was owned by DOE like NTS and managed by Sandia National Laboratories, but this is not a military air base under ownership by USAF?

What is the relationship between the Department of Energy, Sandia and the USAF in the TTR? Because I've seen that is in between a government agency like the DOE and Sandia Laboratories and then finally USAF, but I do not understand is what is the function of each them, TTR is owned by the USAF ? DOE manages the range? And Sandia Laboratories, what's carry out?

Originally posted by rayktheon
I thought that TTR was owned by DOE like NTS and managed by Sandia National Laboratories, but this is not a military air base under ownership by USAF?

What is the relationship between the Department of Energy, Sandia and the USAF in the TTR? Because I've seen that is in between a government agency like the DOE and Sandia Laboratories and then finally USAF, but I do not understand is what is the function of each them, TTR is owned by the USAF ? DOE manages the range? And Sandia Laboratories, what's carry out?

You need to review the page I posted. It has statements from the USAF regarding the TTR.

The facility is used jointly. This is not uncommon between the federal and military branches.[The JSS (joint surveillance site) is a good example of the DoD and the FAA sharing physical locations, in this case radio sites.] The DOE has their facility on the base. Mostly that is Sandia Base, but there are DOE facilities by Antelope Lake as well, plus all the camera kiosks used by the DOE are spread out over the range.) I presume the DoD has everything else.

Sandia is a civil organization. It has been run by Bechtel, Lockheed, etc via a contract with the feds. I would consider it captive of the federal government. A contrasting organization would be SAIC, which does government work, but presumably could contract outside the government.

Originally posted by gariac


The F117a flights are real. I've run down the sources of the video. Where is it based hasn't been determined. If they used a KC135 rcently, then it wasn't a Sierra 99 flight.

I'll just add that the latest T.O. -3 for inflight refueling procedures for the KC-135 show the F-117 listed in there as well as the F-35. Air speeds, altitudes, number of fuel pumps, etc. If it was retired, why would it still be in there as of 2012?

Basicly it comes down to one of a couple of possibilities.

1). Locheed kept one or a few for testing.
2). Locheed and/or USAF has kept a few around if they need to bring the fleet (or part of it) out of mothballs in the event the F-35 or F-22 have or has potential problems that question the reliability or availability of those aircraft. Even if just one or two is flying, that means the systems, training, pilots, ground crew capabilities are there and could be spun up in the event a squadron or wing was reformed.
3). The USAF (or Reserve) is still operating a small detachment, but in secret.
4). Locheed and/or the USAF is looking for potential customers for at least some of the mothballed airplanes, and so a few are flying for demonstrative and trial/training purposes.
5). Another allied country has actually bought the plane, and the recent flights are for training foreign pilots.

I find the last one unlikely, but still a possibility.

reply to post by SrWingCommander


How about using a F117 as a test bed for some pod or other avionics? After all, the TTR has site-4 handy. The only flaw this scenario is they would not have bothered to refuel one in flight if it was just an electronics test bed.

If the USAF wanted to keep one or two around, they could have simply stated they are keeping them around. No need for secrecy.

If they are refueling the bird, I'm leaning toward the scenario where they keep a few running just in case .The key would be to come up with something the F117 does better than te F-22 and F-35, which at the moment seems to be nothing particularly significant. The F22 and F-35 have a low probability of intercept radar, while the F117 has no radar (excluding some test articles).

They don't don't have external racks. I can't see what they would test on an F117 that couldn't be tested on something else. I guess if you wanted the load carrying aircraft to be radar invisable.

I am wondering if some are being flown by some of our allies who are on the F35 program. That would give them some experience in stealth operations. Althought there are worlds of difference between the 117 and the 35.

Perhaps with the F35having issues maybe there is a chance some of our allies are looking at taking the second hand F117s to still have a basic stealth operations capability.

reply to post by SrWingCommander


Ditto on no racks. You would have to hack up a F117 considerably to put some test gear on it, but they did make a feeble attempt in the program to give it radar. Those airframes might be different and easily hacked.

Here is another rumor regading the TTR. If you are familiar with N747GE, there was this story going around that the TTR had some oddball airframe where they were slapping on test engines. The rumor was the trucks seen going to the TTR were carrying test engines. I got this from someone who wrote for the one of the aviation mags, but it seemed like the kind of story that could be verified if true, and nobody has ever done so. Then again, it isn't like the TTR has a lot of observers, even if it isn't all that remote compared to Groom.

Given the nature of the task, it would seem to me this airframe would have to be something with 3 or 4 engines since the test engine isn't exactly going to be trustworthy.

There are also stories about the TTR testing different fuels, mostly because they have a lot of tanks. Of course, you can have a lot of tanks of the same stuff.

So many stories, so few ways to verify them.

That grey F-117 I took a picture of was a civilian pilot from skunkworks. They told us that they have their own personal aircraft that they can take up and fly basically whenever they wanted. We even had to send them a fuel receipt for the gas they got instead of the usual forms for air force or navy planes.

After reading these questions online I joined this site to add a few tidbits about the Tonopah Test range.
I will not explain how I know the following facts to be absolutely true, but they are nonetheless.
1. Before the fall of the Berlin Wall, there was a complete replica of the communist controlled side of Berlin underground at the Tonopah Test Range. Troops, mostly foreign, but also a few US special forces would train on invasion tactics in this replica city. I do not know what is in this underground' facility today.
2. One of the biggest purposes of the Tonopah test range, is pilot training. There are numerous foreign made satellite and weapon systems placed throughout the canyons, the pilots practice destroying them by attempting to hit them with lasers, and a system detects whether the pilot was successful. Numerous foreign pilots go through this training and it used to be called red flag.
3. The biggest kept secret at the Tonopah Test range before it was announced to the public . was the development of stealth technology and flight testing it.
4. The base is hard to see and access and is very restricted to around a 1000 people who work there. But, there are buildings and bunkers on the site that are restricted to only a handful of people being able to access.

a reply to: JM2112

Gee, JM2112, thanks a lot for reviving an ancient thread and then completely derailing it with a load of nonsense and disinformation. That is against everything this site stands for.

a reply to: Shadowhawk

I was wondering why this showed up in my feed again. Incidentally, since it's up. I heard awhile back (I believe it was on an airline pilots forum but i would have to dig) that there were heavy rumors the pilots of those 2010 to 2012 flights had Stars of David patches on their flight suit shoulders.

a reply to: SrWingCommander

We watched two F-117s fly this past summer, one leading the other following, with two others being worked on in their hangars. The lead aircraft looked like it had a new antenna mounted on the spine, replacing the usual antenna. They flew a low level through the valley and back into the mountains before eventually returning. The flight we watched was the day after a group of three semi trucks with a classified shipment arrived, and parked next to their hangars.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: SrWingCommander

We watched two F-117s fly this past summer, one leading the other following, with two others being worked on in their hangars. The lead aircraft looked like it had a new antenna mounted on the spine, replacing the usual antenna. They flew a low level through the valley and back into the mountains before eventually returning. The flight we watched was the day after a group of three semi trucks with a classified shipment arrived, and parked next to their hangars.

How can you tell a truck has classified cargo?

a reply to: gariac

The first huge clue was the massive escort that was with the trucks. The second, and bigger clue, was that while we were stopped at a construction zone, another truck driver walked near one of the escorts and was chased back by the guy with them. He asked what it was, and was told that the pickup he was near was escorting a classified cargo.