Arctic ice melting at 'amazing' speed, scientists find

reply to post by fenceSitter

I agree that it seems like we are at a tipping point, or more likely already past it. Get ready for the anti-climate change posts to start rolling in with the whole 'natural earth cycle' arguments.

Ehm....anti climate change posts?

You mean anti man made global warming posts?

What used to be called Global Warming is called Climate Change now because even the ones pushing it know that MMGW is a hoax.

Originally posted by OpenEars123

Originally posted by The X
if you were 10,000 years old you would be saying, so what?, it happens.

Something tells me you didn't think this through very well? ..

OK, your smarter than me, tell me what i missed, it must be very very obvious.


As for it being a rough ride, well, that is a certainty if it happens, we all die, we have our own cycle, why does it matter how it happens?.
If we do get things out of balance, nature will put it right, unfortunately it isn't just nature we got trying to wipe us out, global warming is the perfect soft kill cover for mass murder given the right technologies and enough fools to believe the scientists and the on message dribble they no doubt will serve up at the behest of their universities and political masters.

Originally posted by The X
Oh noes nature is doing its thing, OMG it's all our fault.

The Universe has a natural cycle of events, Our galaxy has a natural cycle of events, our solar system has a natural cycle of events, our planet has a natural cycle of events, our sun has its own natural cycle of events that also influence the earth to a greater or lesser degree dependent upon many factors, one of which is, where both of those are in their own cycles.

The weather has natural cycles of events, our Icesheets have natural cycles of events and if you were 10,000 years old you would be saying, so what?, it happens.

Yep, I agree, the universe has a natural cycle of events. Here's one, as human population increases, there is a greater need for food. (Yep we fit into your argument so far).

So we breed more cows (as a food example), each cow burps or farts 40L of methane every day (a really bad green house gas) and humans have mined over the last couple of HUNDRED years, fossil fuels that have been locked up over MILLIONS of years.

Hence all of the carbon dioxide locked away in the past millions of years by plants is now released in a couple of hundred years .... (don't bring up the volcano argument as the plants locked away a lot of their sh1t too)

Any chance of giving me the heads up on where in the past has THAT cycle happened? You don't have an answer? Thought not.

But as someone else said on here, who give a rats on how this has happened (global warming) can someone just find a way of fixing the problem Yes! it is a problem, not for the world, for us pathetic humans that are living on it.

Had to comment cause I am over sanctimonious fools trying to fob off the fact that we humans HAVE had an adverse effect on the planet.

reply to post by doubledutch


It's not happening.
I deny reality!!!
Satan is just trying to trick you into being more friendly to the environment.

I reckon it's all down to the Russians.

There was a news item a few years ago about them planting a flag under the Arctic ice, so they could lay claim to the Arctic seabed. I remember that the people commenting on it, on the BBC news and the newscaster himself, were all laughing about it.

My thought at the time was - Why on earth would you want to plant a flag under the sea? Perhaps they know that the earth's going to reverse it's poles and itself completely and what was sea will be land & vice versa.

Over the years since then, when hearing about the melting ice, I've thought perhaps they put some sort of device down there, to melt the ice, to further the climate change conspiracy - if there is one - or, more likely, to get at the oil.

From BBC News - 2nd August 2007:

Russian explorers have planted their country's flag on the seabed 4,200m (14,000ft) below the North Pole to further Moscow's claims to the Arctic. The rust-proof titanium metal flag was brought by explorers travelling in two mini-submarines, in what is believed to be the first expedition of its kind. Both vessels have now rejoined the expedition's ships, completing their risky return journey to the surface.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by doubledutch
I just remembered why I dont post anything on here anymore

i think that's how most of us who know climate change is real (and not from the sun or having nothing to do with humans). we've all pretty much given up and been run off. the mean-ness and condescending nature of the deniers is just too much sometimes and pointless to argue with.

i appreciate your post though!!!

reply to post by pirhanna


Absolutely - how could our recent industrial/technological 'progress' not have an effect? Even if the effect was very small, put it together with a 'natural' Earth warming cycle and the balance is tipped...........into the great unknown!

I'm sure last week's New Scientist stated that the Artic ice hadn't melted like this for possibly three million years, a bit more than up to 1500 years but I cannot find my copy to double check.

The immediate effects of this ice melt are smack in front of us - changes in temperature and degree of salinity of the oceans with knock on effects on currents leading to climate changes leading to crops failing leading to hunger and famine leading to civil unrest and war......nuclear?

A carbon tax ain't going to sort this one out!

I guess our governments are getting a bit worried and are preparing some space for themselves, top scientists, the richest powerful families, to ride out the storm. When it's all over and we are all wiped out, they will emerge to a very different world. But it is reassuring to know that all these intelligent people will be able to get it right next time!

Amazing is a marketing term not a scientific one. Anything after that is BS

We also have the solar effect. We are in a solar max cycle and add that to the effects of the fluff cloud. I`m not saying that we humans are not having an effect. How ever what ever we do, is nothing compared to just one single volcanic eruption. Which seem to be happening a lot these days. Sure we should try to lesson our global foot print. Some one mentioned 13000 years ago, there was a great melt off? Cycles.

reply to post by doubledutch
It is truly amazing!


Extent of surface melt over Greenland’s ice sheet on July 8 (left) and July 12 (right). Measurements from three satellites showed that on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet had undergone thawing at or near the surface. In just a few days, the melting had dramatically accelerated and an estimated 97 percent of the ice sheet surface had thawed by July 12. In the image, the areas classified as “probable melt” (light pink) correspond to those sites where at least one satellite detected surface melting. The areas classified as “melt” (dark pink) correspond to sites where two or three satellites detected surface melting. The satellites are measuring different physical properties at different scales and are passing over Greenland at different times. As a whole, they provide a picture of an extreme melt event about which scientists are very confident. Credit: Nicolo E. DiGirolamo, SSAI/NASA GSFC, and Jesse Allen, NASA Earth Observatory
www.nasa.gov...

All that new melted ice= freshwater being added to the Atlantic Ocean.

=Bad news for countries with white people:

earthsky.org...

Originally posted by doubledutch
I haven't posted in ages but I came across this and thought it was worthy of posting

This is a rather scary article on the BBC news website stating that the ice melt this year is officially scaring the scientists...

"this is unprecedented in at least as much as 1,500 years. It is truly amazing - it is a huge dramatic change in the system,"

This is beginning to feel like tipping point to me. What with the seemingly increasing earthquake action, extreme weather and general bonkerness 2012 might still prove to be a really important year.

"It is a greater change than we could even imagine 20 years ago, even 10 years ago," Dr Holmen said. BBC Map "And it has taken us by surprise and we must adjust our understanding of the system and we must adjust our science and we must adjust our feelings for the nature around us."

"As a scientist, I know that this is unprecedented in at least as much as 1,500 years. It is truly amazing - it is a huge dramatic change in the system," Dr Hansen said. "This is not some short-lived phenomenon - this is an ongoing trend. You lose more and more ice and it is accelerating - you can just look at the graphs, the observations, and you can see what's happening."

This is a good article with 3 videos and lots of info, I think we all need to read this

do u have weather info from 1500 years ago

The world has survived for billions of years with fluctuations in temperature.... What some people don't realise is that we happen to be in an ICE AGE. Yes, there may be implications but I think if we can fly to Mars, I think we can handle a change in climates.... All these people trying to protect polar bears and so on. Have you heard of evolution? Why should we dictate what lives and what dies peace,sugarcookie1

Ice melting is a natural cycle of the Earth. We humans are superior, we can;t make the ice melt ourselves

Just joking I wanted to see what it felt like to be a stupid person.

Originally posted by The X
Oh noes nature is doing its thing, OMG it's all our fault.

The Universe has a natural cycle of events, Our galaxy has a natural cycle of events, our solar system has a natural cycle of events, our planet has a natural cycle of events, our sun has its own natural cycle of events that also influence the earth to a greater or lesser degree dependent upon many factors, one of which is, where both of those are in their own cycles.

The weather has natural cycles of events, our Icesheets have natural cycles of events and if you were 10,000 years old you would be saying, so what?, it happens.

10,000 years ago we lived in small tribal societies, the global population was estimated to be between 4 and 10 million. Today there are over 7bn people living in highly developed societies, most of which are in the northern hemisphere.

We DO NOT know for certain what is causing the decrease in the arctic ice or other unusual weather events and patterns around the world. Whether it is natural, man made or influenced is irrelevant at this stage. What is important is the potential impact which we simply do not know.

Its all well and good dismissing it as cyclical but you are comparing apples with oranges.

Reality is, any change in weather patterns can have significant detrimental impact on the economy, production of food, heating, goods and services. There can be flooding, droughts and mass population movement. These tend to lead to wars or territorial disputes.

Modern western socities are not filled with people with skills to survive when the "system" fails. Supermarkets have at best a weeks worth of food at any given time.

I have to question the mindset of people who dismiss significant events such as this so casually, it strikes me as the view of a nihlist, just waiting for everything to collapse.

We live in a delicate balance not just with the planet but with everyone and everything on it. Anything which throws out this balance can be massively detrimental to people all over the globe.

Originally posted by sugarcookie1
The world has survived for billions of years with fluctuations in temperature.... What some people don't realise is that we happen to be in an ICE AGE. Yes, there may be implications but I think if we can fly to Mars, I think we can handle a change in climates.... All these people trying to protect polar bears and so on. Have you heard of evolution? Why should we dictate what lives and what dies peace,sugarcookie1

Developing a craft to launch by burning fuel, survive in a vacuum with high temperature variance and parachute to the groud is sophisticated but very conventional science and engineering.

Managing an entire global climate is simply beyond our comprehension at this stage in our civilisation. Our science and engineering cannot manage local weather systems such as a hurricane or flood let alone a complex global system we can barely even model in real time.

You say we can "handle a change in climates" - do you have any concept of what that could mean? I don't think you realise that we're significantly overpopulated at the moment and expending all of our resources in maintaining the status quo.

Simplistic commentary such as this is damaging and needs to be challenged.

Oh noes nature is doing its thing, OMG it's all our fault.

The Universe has a natural cycle of events, Our galaxy has a natural cycle of events, our solar system has a natural cycle of events, our planet has a natural cycle of events, our sun has its own natural cycle of events that also influence the earth to a greater or lesser degree dependent upon many factors, one of which is, where both of those are in their own cycles.

The weather has natural cycles of events, our Icesheets have natural cycles of events and if you were 10,000 years old you would be saying, so what?, it happens.

And you have no idea really, if it is a natural cycle or not. If these natural cycles occur every 10, or 15k years.. what are the odds that one is happening just now.. during the advent of our industrial outburst of the last couple hundred years? It could be - but it may also be the case that we are indeed causing it. Or, that a small change is being accelerated by our efforts.

If there is one thing I learned working in the environmental sector for the last 15 years, it's that even SMALL changes caused by humans creates very noticeable and sometimes dramatic effects on the surrounding ecosystem. So I don't doubt we could in fact, change weather by means of dumping tons of crap into our skies.

But it's more convenient I know for many to just ignore it. It MIGHT not be us, let's just not worry about it! How grossly negligent on our parts as humans.

Originally posted by doubledutch
I just remembered why I dont post anything on here anymore

It's funny, as soon as I read that first post of yours I thought
the very same thing. I for one am so glad you posted this.
People need to hear it. Many (most) on ATS don't believe anything unless
Fox, Alex Jones or Rush Limbaugh tells them its ok to believe it.
I don't want deniers like them in charge of ANYTHING . Like US policies
& certainly not the health of the Earth.