Debunking "UFO's" in Biblical Paintings

Originally posted by Imtor
reply to post by CaptainBeno

 

Good one,
_______________________________

Now do you see OP, how everything is not symbolism, consider it whatever you want, that's the truth. And it is - not symbolism, some could be, others is a CERTAIN NO.

Does the sun have a face? I don't think it does now but maybe just maybe it did back then. Or maybe we should just ignore that the sun has a face in those paintings because we know that the sun does not have a face and just accept the rest of the painting as REALITY! Good one indeed.

Originally posted by ScientificUAPer

Originally posted by Unity_99
So intent on debunking what is there, and understood by even the Vatican, in its encyclopedia, just want to pull that box firmly over your head and live in a reduced dream.

...

'A reduced dream'?

Is this part of some new philosophy of self deception and ignorant bliss while ingesting shrooms liberally, or what is going on?

I think this is a fair question but not likely to produce a fair or straight answer in return. I like creativity and all but this seems more like a self portrait of a misunderstood jolly-rancher in a undisclosed part of reality that is lost in a stream of words that even this one has no way to navigate.

There were such things as meteors and comets back then correct? Did they have ballons? Don't these sometimes get confused with UFOs today? Maybe some jokester catapolted a crate of Cracker Jacks across the sky. Perhaps the same confusion that plagues modern UFOers was in play back then as well?

Loving this thread... I have to say I agree with the OP on the paintings presented... but these latest ones clearly are something different.

Originally posted by chawk610
Loving this thread... I have to say I agree with the OP on the paintings presented... but these latest ones clearly are something different.

So today people mistake natural phenomena with ufos. Today people take mind altering drugs and have visions and consider them real. Today we have people that suffer mental illness. Today we know that our own normal brain chemistry can cause us to hallucinate. Today we know the difference between dreams and reality. Today we have all kinds of science fiction and fantasy literature including paintings and illustrations of aliens and ufos. Today we have hoaxers and con artists who will tell you anything to make a buck.

I would venture to guess that they had the same issues we have today.

But you are telling me the only thing these paintings could possibly be are aliens and flying saucers?

The one thing we don't have today is any certainty that there are any beings from space or anyplace else visiting us. We don't even have a clear solid photo! Just lots of drawings and stories.

Yep... lots of drawings and theorys, that;s what makes this all so fun.

The theory of a man bringing humans to salvation from sin is just like the story of santa clause bringing us gifts on christmas eve. I myself believe that UFO's have been cited and they existed during the time of jesus. When in fact during the time of jesus the letter j didn't exist and his name would in fact have been SS. thank you.

reply to post by shyster


I think that understanding the elephant in the room is a conscious choice. That means you are really thinking. But, on that same subject of proof of the existence of God, can you disprove his existence? The way I see it, something has to make the whole big machine tick. People just naturally gravitate to some gray bearded man reaching down from the sky, but I think God is the core energy of existence. If you only believe in that energy, in my opinion, that is existence of a supreme being. Some people call that "God".

The word "alien" just means: foreign to us. I am a resident alien on the United States as I am originally from the United Kingdom. I look like everyone else so it is an easy adaptation. I am even from the same planet. But just because there are beings that may not look like us from other planets that have solved the space travel problem, should we be so surprised that they are on the same conquest as we are?

There is so much evidence on this planet of past technologies far more advanced than our modern day, that it is not such a far reach as to believe that since time is so flexible in space, these aliens could actually be us: Evolved or changed from the atmosphere of the entire cosmos. Think about this: we are about a foot or so taller than men were just in the mid 1800's. We changed that much in a mere 200 years. Just here on little ole Earth.

reply to post by CaptainBeno



Honest to goodness, you may be the most dense person i have ever encountered. The fact that you never managed to grasp this is fairly mind-boggling.
How can i claim to know for certain what they were painting? BECAUSE IT IS HISTORICAL FACT. What don't you understand? The church said "paint this. Paint it this way, with a dove encircled in light, because that is the symbolism we The Church use for that Biblical passage," and then the person freaking painted it. Sweet lord almighty.....I'm not guessing. It's not my belief or interpretation. It is historical fact. You may as well keep asking "but how do you KNOW this was painted by so-and-so?" Facts are facts.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


The Nuremberg paintings, as well as many of the others you posted along with it, are not representations of Biblical scenes, and thus have absolutely zero relevance. As i have stated numerous times, this is about the religious symbolism employed by the Church at that time to depict specific Biblical passages. So no matter how many times you post the Nuremberg painting, it still has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the topic.

The 3rd and 4th pictures down are very easily explainable, nonetheless. I would have assumed i had already done so, but if not i'll do it shortly.

Jesus was an elephant?

who knew!!

BTW - OP you must also prove that you are not just a figment of our imaginations... actually.. for that matter... you must prove that this is not all just a dream.

But seriously.... great thread. S&F

Doves were usually associated with peace, plus this also quite common in other mythologies where Gods were symbolized with birds.

Since when did Christ have anything to do with the sun or moon. The closest thing I think of that would be close to the word "sun" is "son". Plus the devil would be symbolized with the moon. Plus such symbolism is usually in pagan mythology. Plus their are many pictures that share this common symbolism of positive/negative.

I do agree with your points on the other biblical paintings like the one with Jesus and an army of clouds, and the red hat.

However I am really curious as to what started such a trend in art that seems to have different time periods of being created( Dont know how far apart they are), when it seems more based on the yin yang, which seems more oriental.

I think its hilarious how quick the OP put down those who have a serious interest in the ufo subject as if there crazy for assuming they exist/ were around in ancient times, yet your whole thread is based off a fictitious book about a long haired orator!

I think this is an awesome thread and I for one am grateful to the OP for illuminating me about conventions I was unaware of.

Nowadays when I see websites using these paintings as examples of Ancient Aliens, or the Abydos hieroglyph, I hope they are just being ignorant rather than outright deceitful. In my opinion, anyone who takes UFOlogy seriously must accept what has been properly debunked.

Otherwise it will forever retain its 'wacko' reputation.

Originally posted by ContractedMercenary
I think its hilarious how quick the OP put down those who have a serious interest in the ufo subject as if there crazy for assuming they exist/ were around in ancient times, yet your whole thread is based off a fictitious book about a long haired orator!

edit on 14-2-2013 by ContractedMercenary because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-2-2013 by ContractedMercenary because: (no reason given)

I don't think that the OP has in any way put down those with a serious interest in the UFO subject for assuming they were around in ancient times.

He does not even dscuss whether the Bible is fictitious or not; he simply shows a bunch of religious paintings, and illustrates why the images people assume are UFOs are actually representations of certain iconography like the sun and moon, in line with the accepted rules for religious paintings of that particular time.

reply to post by Maroboduus


no, you do not know what these artists were thinking. unless you are a soul traveler or remote viewer.
I take the point of the sputnik version. it does not look like an ufo.

most are the others, and I have a few which a presented in a even more clear way, like the aerial battle of nurnberg.
are IMO clear case of a REPRESENTATION ON DISGUISE, of the phenomena.
no author could ever dream of doing a painting of an ufo by itself it had to be in a religious context.
if it looked funny the artist in question could lose his head or go to the bonefire, one thing or the other.

so to me, it is more likely they are displaying an adaptation of a sight into a religious context. where the sight could fit without been a major problem to the artist.

the coincidence of the paintings with the event strongly suggests that.

so I don't think it is debunked at all, on the contrary it holds strong evidence of the ufo case, and add it up the cave paintings, so these event is recorded since man depicts figures in caves.

Great thread, well presented and thought out.
Keep the good work coming

reply to post by Druscilla

One often cited is

If not already mentioned...the holy spirit was often depicted in art as a golden disc (the precursor to the halo around holy figures). This painting represents the holy spirit entering Mary to beget Jesus. Not a UFO beaming her brainpan.

reply to post by flamengo

no, you do not know what these artists were thinking. unless you are a soul traveler or remote viewer.

True, but one versed in art history is aware of the common symbolism used by artists (and sanctioned by the Church, who was basically the patron of most such pieces), so they can certainly make an informed assessment on what influenced the artist's rendition.

Maybe I missed something, but I failed to see how you debunked this one.

I see no evidence of you proving that these are in fact the sun and the moon and represent positive/negative.

They could very well be UFOs that were depicted the same in each painting. Please, tell me if I missed something, I have not done much research into these paintings.