Spirit Science; a full movie

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


This doesnt have to be an argumentive discussion ... Watch the video, do your own research. There has been enough said by myself and other members to make your own decisions, and the video is present in the OP.

The problem with people like you, you wait for others to make things "fact" so you dont have to go and find the truth yourself. Read a book ffs..

And it THOTH... you know the Egyptian GOD? Seemingly you know little about anything (including channeling..) so why are you agruing? Just watch the video and make your own conclusion or do some self research on a thing called the internet. It has more purposes then arguments and scrolling forums ...

Originally posted by Theophorus
im gonna go ahead and totally agree with you 100 % . That which can only be real is that which is constent. UNCHANGING. Here is where christian and buddhism differ. Christians believe that change is constent. And that is unchanging. The act of creation alone is change. Buddhists believe that god does not change and is real , the universe is an illusion. Reason tells us that everything and god change is the constent and never changes. Real.

This is why I said in a sense, because if you're trying to say Reason makes more sense than Christianity and Buddhism, I don't think it's that easy. I can't speak for Christianity either, just saying. You could say Buddhism has an unchanging Nirvana, but with Buddhism the Buddha isn't seen as a God, more as a teacher who shows others how to find the truth. It's not about a God, but about realising the truth.

So Buddhism doesn't rely on a God, or even say something is final and real, because to say something is real means that you also have to have unreal, which is division and nothing is really divided, the division is only illusion. (or has "the nature of" an illusion, again so that division isn't created. With words though things are divided in order to give different meanings so it's hard to explain.) So you can't have unchanging either in the sense that it's completely separate from changing, because again you're making division.

That's why Nirvana has an opposite called Samsara (the world.) but even they're not actually separate. Nirvana is pointed towards as a goal and means to extinguish or blow out, like a candle. This means that all of the clinging, craving, suffering and so on have been ended. But Nirvana is only a direction that's pointed towards and doesn't fully "exist". If you reach Nirvana there's no more suffering in the way we know it, but also there's no real Nirvana that's separate from Samsara, the whole teachings only serve to help you wake up, or to help you know how to wake up through meditation.

That's why they say once you reach the other shore, you no longer need the raft (the teachings.). Obviously an awakened person can use them to help others, but there's no relying on them in the same way they previously did, because the realisation is there.

So you could say that Reason is right that every "thing" and "God" change, in a relative sense, but ultimately there's something behind the appearance of all things, God, Nirvana (as a concept.), Reason and so on, and that's the thing that can't be explained in words, only pointed to.


Just to add : if there's contradictions in any of my posts it won't be any fault of Buddhism, it'll instead be the limited way that I can try to explain it and down to my own error(s).

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Facepalm. I wasn't arguing with you. I love spirit science. What I was trying to say is that people try to bash it by saying he has no evidence to back it up (regardless of whether he does or doesn't) and then claim the bible as fact. It makes no sense.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

This doesnt have to be an argumentive discussion ...

Watch the video, do your own research. There has been enough said by myself and other members to make your own decisions, and the video is present in the OP.

The problem with people like you, you wait for others to make things "fact" so you dont have to go and find the truth yourself. Read a book ffs..

And it THOTH... you know the Egyptian GOD? Seemingly you know little about anything (including channeling..) so why are you agruing? Just watch the video and make your own conclusion or do some self research on a thing called the internet. It has more purposes then arguments and scrolling forums ...

Excuse me? I wasn't being argumentative. I think I made some good points in my last post and asked questions about more on this subject for you to answer. You could have answered them. ( if you in fact do have those answers - I think you insulted me because you don't have the answers and didn't know how to deal with logical questions) You could have said, " yes, this is the historical data we have that corroborates these channeling messages_______. or here is the science backing it up _____. Instead, you chose to insult me and claim I am ignorant.

I don't like your tone, so NOW, I'm going to be argumentative. If your going to say you have an alternative history that you want people to believe and you got this information from some dead guy you channeled then you HAVE to bring supporting evidence - regardless if it's true or factual or not - you have to have something else that supports your claims other then, " Oh I was in communication with this spirit guy and he told me all this stuff ( never even bothering to consider the channeler could have been in contact with demons or not and was being given false information) I have had formal training as a minister. I have seen spirits speak through people and demon possessions. As in Seth and Jane Roberts, I have read much about channeling and conclude some may be demon possessed and some may be making things up but none of them have ever had information given that was very accurate, provable and beneficial to mankind including Edgar Caycee. How dare you presume to tell me what I know and don't know.

So Thoth was an Egyptian god.. so what? That/You doesn't/didn't answer my question. Do the writings we have from the Egyptians on Thoth back up the information that was channeled concerning him? Do other histories back it up? I could channel Billy The Kid and find out how to field strip a colt 45 or describe the inside of the O.K. Corral saloon but that doesn't mean the information would be accurate or even that it really came from Billy The Kid.

Enlightened? Judging by the tone you took with me I'd say you are far from enlightened. Doesn't look like this info is doing you any good.

reply to post by LoveisanArt

Hi, LoveisanArt.

I guess you already have watched what's in the link of my signature's first line ?

If not? Do so. I guess you would be **very** interrested ! ! B-)

Blue skies.

Originally posted by samara11278
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Facepalm. I wasn't arguing with you. I love spirit science. What I was trying to say is that people try to bash it by saying he has no evidence to back it up (regardless of whether he does or doesn't) and then claim the bible as fact. It makes no sense.

As I said in my above post, I have had in the past formal training as a minister and have experienced many paranormal things. Do I believe everything the Bible says? No. Do I believe some of the things spoken of in the Bible can be backed up with real science? Yes. Asking for more evidence is only natural and logical and not the same as bashing the subject outright. Especially if you say your pet project has something to do with science.. as in Spirit Science, people expect you to be able to use science to back up some of your claims - if you cant do that, you better rename your pet topic because it's not science at all. If it's found that your science has no other evidence than information that cannot be studied of corroborated people tend to frown on it. In the case with bible believing people, most claim a belief on faith where no factual evidence is needed. It makes perfect sense to them. The burden of proof is on the people that claim they have science to back up their beliefs, such as Spirit Science. So I ask you in this light.. is Spirit Science really based in Science or is it just another religion you have to have faith to believe in?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Was there any part of that video in the OP that the narrator said "You must have faith" or "Have faith and this will happen"?

No. Not once. There was either historical evidence, or there was cross-referencing, or there was mathematical support, or there was LOGIC. Deductive reasoning that made SENSE.

I can think of a LOT of places in the Bible that don't even come close to that standard.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

This doesnt have to be an argumentive discussion ...

Watch the video, do your own research. There has been enough said by myself and other members to make your own decisions, and the video is present in the OP.

The problem with people like you, you wait for others to make things "fact" so you dont have to go and find the truth yourself. Read a book ffs..

And it THOTH... you know the Egyptian GOD? Seemingly you know little about anything (including channeling..) so why are you agruing? Just watch the video and make your own conclusion or do some self research on a thing called the internet. It has more purposes then arguments and scrolling forums ...

Excuse me? I wasn't being argumentative. I think I made some good points in my last post and asked questions about more on this subject for you to answer. You could have answered them. ( if you in fact do have those answers - I think you insulted me because you don't have the answers and didn't know how to deal with logical questions) You could have said, " yes, this is the historical data we have that corroborates these channeling messages_______. or here is the science backing it up _____. Instead, you chose to insult me and claim I am ignorant.

I don't like your tone, so NOW, I'm going to be argumentative. If your going to say you have an alternative history that you want people to believe and you got this information from some dead guy you channeled then you HAVE to bring supporting evidence - regardless if it's true or factual or not - you have to have something else that supports your claims other then, " Oh I was in communication with this spirit guy and he told me all this stuff ( never even bothering to consider the channeler could have been in contact with demons or not and was being given false information) I have had formal training as a minister. I have seen spirits speak through people and demon possessions. As in Seth and Jane Roberts, I have read much about channeling and conclude some may be demon possessed and some may be making things up but none of them have ever had information given that was very accurate, provable and beneficial to mankind including Edgar Caycee. How dare you presume to tell me what I know and don't know.

So Thoth was an Egyptian god.. so what? That/You doesn't/didn't answer my question. Do the writings we have from the Egyptians on Thoth back up the information that was channeled concerning him? Do other histories back it up? I could channel Billy The Kid and find out how to field strip a colt 45 or describe the inside of the O.K. Corral saloon but that doesn't mean the information would be accurate or even that it really came from Billy The Kid.

Enlightened? Judging by the tone you took with me I'd say you are far from enlightened. Doesn't look like this info is doing you any good.

1) Its Sunday which means FOOTBALL, so I care less to focus on giving some minister-science-skeptic evidence of anything because he is too lazy to do his own research. Ive done mine, Ive been through this Ive filter things and took some truth. Didnt make it my "Holy Bible" but agreed with cerain principles..

2) You have no idea about channelling obviously.. whoever "billy the kid is" and something about a colt 45 what does that have to do with spirituality or science? And you say Im not enlightened..(when I have never claimed to be)..

You seem not to care about the topic at hand, the video, or what I have to say.. Im done responding to you. You can live another life without responding to my thread. You have nothing useful to add, so your activity here is meaningless.

Take care

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Was there any part of that video in the OP that the narrator said "You must have faith" or "Have faith and this will happen"?

No. Not once. There was either historical evidence, or there was cross-referencing, or there was mathematical support, or there was LOGIC. Deductive reasoning that made SENSE.

I can think of a LOT of places in the Bible that don't even come close to that standard.

I opened my posting in this thread by admitting I didn't see the 4 hour movie the op posted. I saw a one hour film by the same people instead. www.youtube.com... In that video I did not see any " historical evidence, or there was cross-referencing, or there was mathematical support, or there was LOGIC. Deductive reasoning that made SENSE." It was a jumble of fast moving ideas strung together with a few names dropped now and then. To me , it wasn't very coherent and believable from a scientific standpoint at all. After my disappointment in that film, I certainly wasn't going to sit through a 4 hour version.

So the consensus is that this is based in science? Can you then answer my questions the Op cannot? Where is any other historical data that backs up these ideas? Where is the science that backs up these ideas? What writings from Egyptians do we have on Thoth that backs up what this channeling says concerning him?

I'm just trying you see to get to the bottom of this from a science or real historic point of view. I just read the post above by the Op and I'm seriously not even going to bother to reply to it, it's so childish. Accuses me of not knowing anything but doesn't understand my reference to Billy The Kid and the Colt 45.. seriously.. is the Op like 12 years old? I think that above post completely discredits the Op.

I have a question regarding spirituality.

Isn't all reasoning circular?

When we speak of reasoning, we talk about ideas/concepts that are supported by other ideas concepts. Some of these are observable - but at no point in time are absolutely all of what anyone comes up with simply observable - the spiritual science offers explanations for what is not exactly observable - there is a degree of faith/error introduced.

One cannot explain.

Whether one should believe in Christ or not - eventually beauty is in the eye of the beholder... Who then is the beholder, if he/she is correct?

Is Buddhism an attempt at seeing the truth too? Is it not? Yet, every time we come to the conclusion that the beholder is the object we appreciate the most - yet it cannot be described - what conclusion have we reached? That we observe in error/imperfection?

The overarching desire to discover beyond us exists - if it comes from within - the description must be within - but is it in error? What can we conclude, if it cannot be explained? Of course, it cannot be explained! That is the answer.

The endless cycle of a dog chasing it's own tail.

reply to post by LoveisanArt


I was ready to open my mind and watch the video. I stopped it about 15 seconds in. Did anyone here actually listen to that voice for FOUR HOURS??? I even jumped ahead to see if it was temporary. ICK!

reply to post by jiggerj


If that's as much as you can handle, that's as much as you deserve.

Don't get me wrong, I am Christian myself.

I do understand that I don't know everything.... But, there are reasons that I believe in Christianity.

I simply endeavour to understand what I believe, and I looked at the bible, and it is a collection of stories in a manner of speaking, among other things. It is a collection of stories that are coming true IMHO.

But, anyone can tell a story of reality today - and a historian will be able to pick apart the story 7 ways to god knows where.

I like to call it Einstein's theory of relativity - only from a social perspective. Which is why I also believe the Bhagavad Gita - and the Quran. It is an amazing picture if you could be shown what I've seen - yet, I cannot easily show you - it is a lifetime of experiences. I will try though - perhaps someday I will finish explaining too.

reply to post by sensibleSenseless

I have a question regarding spirituality.

Isn't all reasoning circular?

It's VERY funny you should ask that, actually.

All SPIRITUAL reasoning is circular, but use the wrong 'segments' and the spirals grow tighter and tighter...use the right 'segments' (AKA Logic) and you get a never-ending series of smooth spirals leading into infinity...

That's the nature of the universe. Ever seen the Flower of Life pattern? It's the most basic geometric expression of the universe, and it's a s**tload of circles overlapping one another.

reply to post by jiggerj


Really? A voice? Im sure your life has been very eventful.. you cant handle peoples voices

Im done with the whiny crap and those who choose to ignore the video but intend on commenting against it .. makes no sense.

reply to post by LoveisanArt


If only people would actually give it a chance, even if they have to do some research on their own time, they'd see how much sense the video makes. With such small things like the voice and the eccentric topics posing such great obstacles, it's a wonder these people know anything.

It's a wonder they've even survived up to this point, judging by their ability to handle slight discomforts.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

If only people would actually give it a chance, even if they have to do some research on their own time, they'd see how much sense the video makes. With such small things like the voice and the eccentric topics posing such great obstacles, it's a wonder these people know anything.

Okay, you'll be happy to know that I watched another one of his videos, the first one. Well, actually, I watched the video in the OP and stopped it after the first one.

There was nothing particularly insightful or offensive in that first ten minutes, or so -- some interesting philosophical notions, some clear misnomers (like speaking of ideas as if they were material things) but mostly just talking with no great substance.

Until the very end, when he mentioned an "amazing breakthrough from Japan that went largely unnoticed by the scientific community" -- the claim that putting words on the side of bottles of water would cause the crystals to freeze differently.

Well, some members of the scientific community DID notice this guy, including me, and his claims have been thoroughly debunked. He's a scam artist, selling $35 bottles of water that have been "treated" by him.

I wrote this in a post earlier this year:

Emoto’s popularity is a sad commentary on the scientific illiteracy of our society. His work is a morass of factual errors, misconceptions, misinterpretations, metaphors, and meaningless assertions. He writes in the language of magical thinking and superstition, not of science.

(Source: Masaru Emotos Wonderful World of Water)

(For the non-"scientific illiterates" who want to see details on this nut, here's a chemist's debunking of it: Structured Water Pseudoscience and Quackery.)

And, for me, that ends it -- yes, I gave it a chance, but anyone who thinks that this quackery is, in any way, scientific, valid or "amazing" either doesn't understand chemistry, is too lazy to go validate or invalidate a bizarre claim, or they are content to delude themselves because it bolsters an existing belief.

So there you go -- I gave it a chance, I did some research, and what I found was how LITTLE sense the video makes. I don't need to sit through another 3 hours of it to validate that statement.

You wanna follow someone who is deliberately lying to you, feel free.

Watch the video below -- until I did, I figured that it was just some excitable kid, who didn't understand what he was quoting from others. This, however, makes it pretty clear that he's well aware of the joke.

reply to post by adjensen

some clear misnomers (like speaking of ideas as if they were material things)

Oh, you mean like worshipping the cross?

Other than that, thanks for at least giving him a fighting chance. At the very least, it's fun to watch.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by adjensen

 

some clear misnomers (like speaking of ideas as if they were material things)

Oh, you mean like worshipping the cross?

Who worships the cross?

Way to deflect, Ace -- shows how truly devoted you are to that silliness, when the guy you're claiming is so insightful posts a video making fun of you, and all you can do is keep defending it.

reply to post by adjensen


Dog friend!! Do you even think astral projection is amazing!? Isnt it crazy that there is an infinite creation beyond your tiny planet, one the creator itself aloud to exist?!

Oh .. thats right.. your probably one of those "big bang" people who look for "science" (mans measurement of NATURE, which the creator CREATED)..

My bad

Enjoy a different thread, you are just one of a bunch of members who continue to respond to something they dont care for or agree with. Another individual with meaning and event in their life

Ats... *shakes head*