Dead Fish, Birds Wash Up On Lake Erie Shores In Latest Mystery (PHOTO)

reply to post by deadeyedick


Lemme guess...Don Quixote is a favorite of yours...
Do you understand what I have written?
It is not very evident in your last response. If anything, it exhibits the opposite.
It has happened before. And there is a cause. And in order to ACCURATELY assess the cause, you will need to have a valid frame of reference where massive die offs have not occurred. Until then, you have speculation. And that is a fact.

reply to post by totallackey


No i'm not understanding you at all.
First you say that you seen birds and fish dead together but you have no proof at all that took place.
Then you say that massive fish and bird deaths are natural and to be expected and the only way i will ever know if there is contamination or bacteria involved in the death is to prove to you when and where this has not happened before.

All you are doing is spinning and taking my words personal instead showing any proof or offering any explanation other than this happened before because you seen it and i should take your word for it.
Show proof that massive fish and bird deaths have occurred before together and show evidence of the cause of death then we will not have such a mystery here.

The question was "what does a lack of O2 have to do with birds dying?" I answered that if fish die off from lack of oxygen than there is less food for the birds to eat. It's not like thats a foreign concept, it happens in eco systems often. It was an answer to the question is all. Don't need to be rude about replies it's not like we are arguing.

A little research shows this happens ALL the time ALL over the world. That doesnt make it acceptable or mean we shouldn't learn why but it doesn't make it a catastrophe or mean it's the new hip cause either. Asking someone to prove that fish died in large numbers in Michigan in 1954 and insinuating that they are dishonest and have some burden of proof is insulting to everyone. Use google and do a little research on the subject before you bloviate on conspiracy and doom. Its not like these events are disputable, they happened/happen often. I can think of at least 2 from last year alone on ATS and I don't really follow the subject.

reply to post by sputniksteve


I see you think the birds starved to death at the same time the fish died and floated to shore at the same time. It's just not happening that way. The chances of birds starving is pretty slim because they can fly.

I did not ask to show proof that massive fish deaths have occurred or that birds have died.
I am asking for any evidence that shows where they have died together. As far as wanting someone to back up claims with evidence is not a bad thing when that is exactly what we need to prove this has happened before and is normal.

Btw i have been searching for what i am asking but i have only found one of the other and no mass deaths together.

reply to post by deadeyedick


Of course the relation of my story is anecdotal. I have no newspaper stories or other MSM stories to corroborate...the newspapers and radio and TV at the time did not make reports of this, ASFAIK...why? Perhaps they knew it was just ADITL.

How many reports of massive die offs have read over the past 10 years? Numerous? Yep, me too...So, IT IS TO BE EXPECTED!!! And of course, YOU will need to find a time in the past where it did not take place to demonstrate the cause. You act like I just pulled this out of a hat...

I remember the bald eagle. Blamed DDT. Turned out the EXPERTS are not so sure anymore. I cannot help the equation is correlation does not equal causation.

I do not need to show you anything. I know what happened. You know it has happened within the last ten years. There must be numerous threads here on ATS alone about this stuff happening in the last ten years. So, that seems to me to be a natural event. Perhaps there is contamination or disease at play, but maybe not.

reply to post by totallackey


As i have stated many times already this case is different because it involves bird and fish deaths at the same time.

I have searched and have found nothing that involves bird and fish deaths at the same time.

This is not normal.

I hoped to find some reporting of your story to validate a similar event and not because i don't believe you.

No one has yet to comment on the related article link from my OP. On January 1st this year in Norway an estimated 20 tons of dead fish washed ashore and then just disappeared before they could clean it all up. You can debate all you want about how they died but 20 tons of dead fish on a beach doesn’t just all disappear instantly without help. Mass die offs are not “normal” no matter when it happens.

Norway 2012

reply to post by meticulous


Sorry i missed that link.
I bet it's got something to do with high and low tides and the current in that area.

That picture looks like it was taken at low tide cause the water seems pretty far from the fish.

reply to post by meticulous

Mass die offs are not “normal” no matter when it happens.

When in the past ten years have you not seen a story concerning a die off? You see a story on one or two every year. That makes it NORMAL.

reply to post by totallackey


Enough with the circular arguments people, this is an intriguing topic but so far we have two pages or bickering back and forth. No one knows what caused it, that's why we're here to discuss and provide some researched theories.

It seems the inversion theory, low or no oxygen in the water, could have killed the fish, but definitely does not explain the dead seagulls. Starvation of the seagulls, due to the depletion of their food source, is a slower process. We wouldn't see dead seagulls at the same time as the fish, deaths would occur after. And if their food is scarce, they would just fly to another area in search of food. So that definitely leaves infection, poison, or methane. The huff post article says:

He said there are other possible causes for the dead fish such as a fish disease called viral hemorrhagic septicemia and Type E botulism, a bacterial toxin which would kill birds that feed on dead fish. He said he’s already seen a sick gull near the dead fish but that is not conclusive evidence.

Anything at this point is pure speculation. But let's keep our eyes on this one.

Originally posted by IWant2Believe323
reply to post by totallackey

 

Enough with the circular arguments people, this is an intriguing topic but so far we have two pages or bickering back and forth. No one knows what caused it, that's why we're here to discuss and provide some researched theories.

It seems the inversion theory, low or no oxygen in the water, could have killed the fish, but definitely does not explain the dead seagulls. Starvation of the seagulls, due to the depletion of their food source, is a slower process. We wouldn't see dead seagulls at the same time as the fish, deaths would occur after. And if their food is scarce, they would just fly to another area in search of food. So that definitely leaves infection, poison, or methane. The huff post article says:

He said there are other possible causes for the dead fish such as a fish disease called viral hemorrhagic septicemia and Type E botulism, a bacterial toxin which would kill birds that feed on dead fish. He said he’s already seen a sick gull near the dead fish but that is not conclusive evidence.

Anything at this point is pure speculation. But let's keep our eyes on this one.

the virus is apparently inactive in the digestive tract of birds.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...
hemorrhagic septicemia as never infected birds so if this is the cause of death then there has been a mutation.

And that’s exactly what it’s doing. Since 1999, large epidemics of Type E botulism have been increasing in fish eating birds of the Great Lakes. In 2002, 25,000 birds died on the waters and shores of Lake Erie alone. This year, 2006, birds have been dying since July and the death toll continues to rise. Loons are particularly hard hit, along with mergansers, grebes, gulls, and shore birds. Fish are dying too, though even apparently healthy fish can contain the toxin. Many avian outbreaks are associated with obvious fish kills. Read more at Suite101: Type E Botulism and Birds: The Great Lakes Have Become a Toxic Place for Fish Eating Birds | Suite101.com suite101.com...

suite101.com...

This article seems to make some sense as to what happened here.