Wolves Rising Numbers Causing Problems In The Upper Midwest.

I am glad to see the wolf population rising again. It has even risin enough to support wolf hunting seasons in some places. I can't wait untill they open a season here in Michigan as I will be taking advantage of it myself. I think wolves are one of the coolest wild animals there is and to know they are thriving in my home state makes me very happy. I know they are causing a problem with some farmers but it is the responsibility of the farmer to ensure the safety of his herd.

If the farmer chooses to not take steps to protect his heard then that farmer should not be paid any compensation from the state or federal government. I hope they will include that in any further legislation that is passed. We don't get paid when coyotes come and kill our livestock. We know it is our responsibility to care for and prottect our animals.

www.freep.com...

The growth in wolf populations since they went on the endangered list in the 1970s is one reason livestock loss claims are up. Geir Friisoe, who oversees the Minnesota Department of Agriculture’s compensation program, said another reason lately is higher livestock prices.

Michigan, with nearly 700 wolves, paid $22,382 for 46 incidents in 2010 and $15,755 for 35 incidents in 2011. It has paid $9,465 this year for 12 incidents as of June 2, and payments are pending for 11 other incidents since then, said Brian Roell, a wolf specialist with the Michigan DNR.


The rise in claim payments comes as no surprise to Joe Martin, executive director of the Minnesota State Cattlemen’s Association. He said producers’ actual livestock losses to wolves are much higher, but the government pays only for losses that are verified to be the work of wolves. Coyote losses aren’t covered.

This is another good reason people should not put their pets outside and leave them there for a time. It just enrages me when cat owners do that. It's the height of negligence and animal cruelty.

I just got back from northern Wisconsin and heard of it for the first time. I understand the concerns, but it's nice to see them make a comeback in my opinion. Here's a link to the story.

www.wrn.com...

Yeah Wolves are so evil its just loveable.
If you hear a normal pet dog howling 3 times in a row, myth has it that death follows. The howls are for the dead master.
Now if you hear the wolves howl, they just triangulated on the position of a sick loner and they are going to rip it to shreds. LOL Lots of people expecting to see a mythical scene of a wolf in the moonlit mist are going to be intimidated by the actual size and wildness of these creatures. Still awesome though.

ARH-WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Originally posted by Parksie
Yeah Wolves are so evil its just loveable.
If you hear a normal pet dog howling 3 times in a row, myth has it that death follows. The howls are for the dead master.
Now if you hear the wolves howl, they just triangulated on the position of a sick loner and they are going to rip it to shreds.

LOL Lots of people expecting to see a mythical scene of a wolf in the moonlit mist are going to be intimidated by the actual size and wildness of these creatures. Still awesome though.

ARH-WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

They are deffinitely much bigger than most people think. I have a friend who has a domesticated grey wolf and it is huge. It just sits on the top of their hill and watches the world. He is friendly but a little intimadating even for a dog lover like me. There is just something about wolves that is purely awsome.

Originally posted by specialcategory
This is another good reason people should not put their pets outside and leave them there for a time. It just enrages me when cat owners do that. It's the height of negligence and animal cruelty.

It is freedom, cats aren't meant to be in a house all day. Who are you to say that?

reply to post by specialcategory


LOL! Yeah....god forbid any animal higher on the food chain should EVER eat its prey. Now.....back to my steak....it's what's for dinner.

they arent to popular where i am in montana i see at least 6-10 "smoke a pack a day" bumperstickers and i dont see the attitude changing atleast where i am but it is sad to see that more and more states are having wolf seasons these days but i think most of my states problem comes from they are viewed as non native as i think we have Canadian wolves these days(we killed off the originals back in the day)

reply to post by KilrathiLG


I have no problem with wolf hunting as long as it is done responsibly and it is regulated properly. I think any species to be seen as game benifits from responsible hunting. I understand why people are sketchy about wolf hunting due to the fact that not long ago they were on the endangered species list but if the population grows too large too quickely there could be a multitude of problems that grows along with it. Especially if governments are seen to cover the costs of lost livestock and such.

Farmers that own farms in wolf territory should be proactive about the animals on their land. There should also be insurance policies that cover the loss of animals to predators rather than have the taxpayers cover it. As it stands now there is not enough revenue from wolf hunting to cover the costs being paid out by the government. Additional seasons with more hunters every year as the numbers grow will help in that department I suppose.

Wow...wolves have been reintroduced in certain areas to repopulate the breed...only to kill them? Yes they are a maginficent breed of animal and are at the top of their food chain. I cannot get my head around the idea that people who think they are so cool and beautiful are often the very ones that want to kill them. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone.....unless you are alone in their woods.... and then the howling starts...you hear it in the distance, it gets quieter and quieter...

I have issues with "culling" animals.
If there is an overpopulation issue then why aren't we "culling" humans too? Humans are more invasive than wolves.

BTW - which wolf is going to go to all the trouble of chasing down a buck and wasting energy when some stupid human has provided slow, easy to catch food in an enclosure?

Originally posted by Elentarri
I have issues with "culling" animals.

If there is an overpopulation issue then why aren't we "culling" humans too? Humans are more invasive than wolves.

BTW - which wolf is going to go to all the trouble of chasing down a buck and wasting energy when some stupid human has provided slow, easy to catch food in an enclosure?

Honestly we do practice the culling of humans, we just call it war, disease and famine. I am all for hunting them as long as it is highly regulated and done so responsibly.

The crux of the problems, for those not in the loop or far away, is that the wolves have thrived in the new ecosystems. The predictions made by biologists as to their population growth were grossly inaccurate. Some say it is because the Canadian wolves adapted much faster and efficiently to these warmer regions, others just point out the obvious: They have no predators and birth 2-4 pups a season. Pups that are adapted to survive much harsher environments.

So now the wolves are overhunting the elk and deer, and new packs pop up and stray into populated farmlands looking for easy food. This is where hunting and culling come into play. We screwed with nature, thinking we were fixing our past mistake, but we replaced the part labeled WOLF with an aftermarket part that doesn't work the same as the original.

And as for culling humans (don't take this politically please, I bring it up scientifically) we do. Abortion is voluntary culling of the population. It removes a very significant number of persons from the species every day.

Originally posted by Elentarri
BTW - which wolf is going to go to all the trouble of chasing down a buck and wasting energy when some stupid human has provided slow, easy to catch food in an enclosure?

Agreed, but that stupid human had provided adequate protection for his slow, easy-to-catch food with that enclosure. Until the government (against the local population's wishes) reintroduced wolves to the ecosystem.

You can't blame the ranchers when they have said from the very start that this would be the outcome. In reality, a bunch of Idaho/Montana/Wyoming ranchers were smarter than the government's ubermensch scientists!

The issue now is mediating the damage and making everyone happy-ish. Culling and hunting seasons cost far less than subsidizing tall fences and lost livestock compensations.

reply to post by Iron7

It is freedom, cats aren't meant to be in a house all day. Who are you to say that?

I am the cat PTB. Just ask my cat. In his pyramid-shaped napping thing. A tool for a New Household Order. Thus declareth Me. so mote it be. ( > thunderboom sound effect..) They must forever have our one eye on them.

Originally posted by usmc0311

Originally posted by Elentarri
I have issues with "culling" animals.

If there is an overpopulation issue then why aren't we "culling" humans too? Humans are more invasive than wolves.

Honestly we do practice the culling of humans, we just call it war, disease and famine. I am all for hunting them as long as it is highly regulated and done so responsibly.

Them as in humans? Or wolves?

I think "they" should stop interfering with natural selection in terms of humans. You can provide a helping hand if you like, but all this throwing money at a problem and calling it charity it not working.


I also think the number of politicians, lawyers and bankers should be culled. They cause more harm than the poor little wolves.

reply to post by Elentarri


Sorry, I meant the wolves in that last statement. I am all for culling the population of bankers, lawers, and politcians as well.

Originally posted by blamethegreys
The crux of the problems, for those not in the loop or far away, is that the wolves have thrived in the new ecosystems. The predictions made by biologists as to their population growth were grossly inaccurate. Some say it is because the Canadian wolves adapted much faster and efficiently to these warmer regions, others just point out the obvious: They have no predators and birth 2-4 pups a season. Pups that are adapted to survive much harsher environments.

So now the wolves are overhunting the elk and deer, and new packs pop up and stray into populated farmlands looking for easy food. This is where hunting and culling come into play. We screwed with nature, thinking we were fixing our past mistake, but we replaced the part labeled WOLF with an aftermarket part that doesn't work the same as the original.

Thanks for the extra info. I agree with you, but I still like any random wolf far more than I like people in general. So as far as I'm concerned people can go, the wolves can stay.

In Southern Africa, they have squashed elephant herds that used to roam the whole (or most of) the continent into tiny game reserves and then murder the elephants because they invade some farmers vegetable patch or there are too many of them for that little pin-prick of reserve. Seriously, with humans invading and taking over all available space, where is the wildlife supposed to go??

As you say, we have screwed with nature. One day it is going to come back and bite us in the rear-end.

Originally posted by blamethegreys


Agreed, but that stupid human had provided adequate protection for his slow, easy-to-catch food with that enclosure. Until the government (against the local population's wishes) reintroduced wolves to the ecosystem.

You can't blame the ranchers when they have said from the very start that this would be the outcome. In reality, a bunch of Idaho/Montana/Wyoming ranchers were smarter than the government's ubermensch scientists!

The issue now is mediating the damage and making everyone happy-ish. Culling and hunting seasons cost far less than subsidizing tall fences and lost livestock compensations.

I see your point, but...well... the wolves were there first until humans wiped them out. There must be a better way to deal with the whole situation besides killing wolves? How do ranchers in other parts of the world deal with wolves (besides killing them)? I know that in South Africa, some of the farmers phone the DeWildt Cheetah Sanctuary to come catch and relocate cheetahs if they think a cheetah is eating their livestock.

My other issue with killing any wild animal, is how many of them get wounded instead and then wonder around hurt before they keel over? How many people decide that since wolves are "bad" that they can commit all sorts of atrocities while getting around to killing them?

Good luck with making everyone happy-ish. Someone is always going to throw a spanner in the works.

BTW - It was probably some government official, not the scientist, who told them to go ahead. I see this all the time in my line of work. You tell "government official" that their "genius" plan is going to have xyz consequences and it will be a bad idea and they go do it anyway. Government officials regardless of background just don't have any common sense - it's like common sense gets surgically removed once you become a government official, or at least a high up one.

Originally posted by blamethegreys


Agreed, but that stupid human had provided adequate protection for his slow, easy-to-catch food with that enclosure. Until the government (against the local population's wishes) reintroduced wolves to the ecosystem.

Have you noticed that the government very seldom does what the population wishes? I sometimes wonder why the government even bothers asking for public input in the first place.