5 found shot in French Alps

reply to post by theabsolutetruth

That's almost exactly what I posted in the first instance.....The obvious exception as I said before is the 7.65mm vz.61 machine pistol which has a twenty round magazine and can be silenced. It's a Czech weapon and apparently it's rather popular among the criminal fraternity in the Balkans.

Wikipedia - Škorpion vz. 61

EDIT: Thought there was a 25 round curved mag available for this weapon, but apparently not.....So even if the shooter used one of these he'd still have had to change magazines. Whoever it was certainly wanted to make sure that Mr. Al-Hilli (and everyone else) was pretty thoroughly dead.

reply to post by squarehead666


This report also mentions the same type of weapon.

www.standard.co.uk...

Foreign killers are invariably hired by those who do not want the gunmen to have any traceable link with their victims, with Lt Col François saying the Chevaline massacre had all the hallmarks of a slaying carried out by the Italian or Russian mafia.

As he went up the forest road before the drama, Philippe said he had “heard nothing and come across not a single person, no car, no bike”. This supports the theory that the gunman, or gunmen, were already in place before the shootings, or else had arrived by an isolated mountain path. Philippe said they would have been “able to escape by a winding track called Le Moulin” (the mill) which leads directly on to the main road.

www.theweek.co.uk...

THE BRITISH father murdered along with his wife, mother-in-law and a passing cyclist near Lake Annecy in southeast France last week had secretly met a number of people during his caravan holiday and suddenly moved campsites just two days before the shooting, it has emerged. The revelations, when considered along with the fact that Saad al-Hilli took his family on holiday just when his two daughters were due to start school, adds to speculation that he was a man under pressure.

Ok what have we got?

1 - Old weapons.

2 - Attack in Europe.

3 - High profile target.

Could he be talking Gladio here?

Or maybe it was done to look like Gladio?

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Ok what have we got?

1 - Old weapons.

2 - Attack in Europe.

3 - High profile target.

Could he be talking Gladio here?

Or maybe it was done to look like Gladio?

Not so sure.

Firstly, it maybe wasn't an old weapon as these could be modern.

It was in Europe but looks like it was perhaps a lure, or a pre planned meeting due to the meetings the guy had and the frequent going from the campsite.

He wasn't really very high profile, but possibly involved in certain things that would bring attention, such as aerial surveillance, links to nuclear projects, links to multi named businesses dealing in all sorts of things from anaesthetics to engineering.

Possibly it was a hit due to an unscrupulous deal or dabbling in things that got out of hand or that were underhand or compromised somebody / something.

More updates. Seems this guy was very active on forums, especially about certain types of conspiracies, maybe was a member?

www.mirror.co.uk...

The British engineer killed in the French Alps ­secretly held extreme anti-Israeli beliefs which could be the key to the massacre that has baffled police, a close friend claims. To his wealthy neighbours, Saad al-Hilli was a devoted family man. But behind closed doors he is said to have spent hours on his computer bombarding Arabic chatrooms with anti-Israeli posts.

“He would forever be talking about how the Israelis were taking over the world and specifically taking over America. He hated Israeli Jews taking big banks and strongholds in America. “He thought 9/11 was an inside job by the Israelis to create hatred against the Arabic nations. After 9/11 his involvement in chatrooms increased dramatically. He was very passionate about his beliefs. He didn’t believe the Jews should be in Israel. He thought the land should be Palestinian. “When I heard Saad and Ikbal had been murdered my first thought was, “What has he said? What has he done?’ I think it’s possible he has offended someone and Mossad has taken offence and put a hit out on him.”

Gary also had access to the family home where Saad went online to post his anti-Israeli rants. He believes police need to look at his friend’s banks of computers to get to the truth of what happened in France. He used a rear upstairs room to house four computers and a laptop worth up to £20,000 which he used to write his beliefs in Arabic forums. Saad also had a number of other PCs in an outside shed which Gary helped to build. The chatrooms Saad used were not only a magnet for hate-filled Islamic fundamentalists... but also for opposing forces trying to identify enemies. Gary believes Mossad – whose secret agents have been responsible for many assassinations – could have been ­tracking Saad’s outspoken views. British security services are already said to have put him under surveillance in the 1990s. Baghdad-born Saad arrived in the UK in the 1970s when his parents fled Iraq and one of his uncles was killed by Saddam Hussein’s henchmen. But he owned land in the war-torn country and often returned.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Last night a source close to the investigation said: ‘She told us there was only one killer, who she called a bad man.’

The news comes as it was revealed that police are looking for for a black Mitsubishi Pajero with British number plates in relation to shooting.

Is it just me or has no one else noticed the similarities between this shooting and Jack Johnson's book Swiss Trap? Freaky. Quite country road in the swiss alps. Police come across a car load of shot passengers. Dead people have Iranian background. Looks like a professional hit .... - and in the book looks like Mossad could have been involved. maybe the author did it to create a bit of PR... Kinda like fiction leading truth leading fiction....

reply to post by warrenmike40


Never read that book, will google it somewhen. Interesting.

More reports about potential links to agencies interested in gaining intelligence and M15.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Meanwhile, it is understood that Mr Al-Hilli worked for a satellite company which is being investigated by MI5 over fears it has been targeted by foreign agencies that want to develop hostile spying operations.

A cousin of Mr Al-Hilli, who was contacted in Baghdad but refused to be identified, said: ‘If you investigate and find out about Saad’s job, you will know who’s behind his killing.’ The cousin, who lives in Istanbul but was on a business trip to Baghdad, added: ‘We have been told by the police not to say anything more.’

It is believed that French police are examining Iraqi-born Mr Al-Hilli’s work with Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL). Intelligence sources said the company had ‘been of interest’ to MI5 for ten years during which time the security service had conducted surveillance operations on British-based individuals who had made contact with SSTL.

It provides state-of-the-art equipment that, in the wrong hands, could be turned into spy satellites. It also stores huge amounts of data obtained from many different satellite missions that might be of interest to another state or competitor company.

SSTL declined to discuss security surrounding the firm, but confirmed that Mr Al-Hilli had been working with it since November 2010 as part of a small team on an unnamed project.

A Whitehall security source also declined to confirm or deny MI5’s interest in the company, saying only that the security service would always ‘follow the intelligence’.

A friend of Mr Al-Hilli said that the engineer was not allowed to go to Iraq during the last Gulf War, even though he told the authorities he was going to see family members.

Clarence Oddman, 47, said: ‘I don’t know why he was not allowed to go, but I know the British Government refused him permission.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


A new report in Daily Mail says LE are now suggesting more strongly the target may well have been Sylvain Mollier after all: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Which is something I've felt from the beginning.

Is there another thread or what is the reason that this one is dead? Does nobody care about this crime?

Personally I think the dead biker AND al-hili had a deal and got killed by some organisation (mafia, fbi, mi6, cia etc... I don't know)

But the biker who found them... Somehow I have the feeling he might not be as innocent as it seems

reply to post by Floh


It possibly wouldn't make sense though, if it was Mollier as just a target, they would just wait until there weren't any people around.

I do think it is suspicious Mollier worked in the uranium industry for a company that had previously been accused of providing uranium to Iran, and that al Hilli was an Iraqi that reportedly hated Israel and spent a lot of time saying so on forums, as well as the secret meetings from the campsite and being involved in a secret nuclear project as well as a surveillance sideline being watched by M15.

It is possible they were meeting and it was a hit intended for them both, perhaps they were intending a meeting form a third party. Or, perhaps more likely, they were in allegiance, and either an investigating party or a deal they could have let down or exposed to investigations, decided they were too much of a risk.

This ties to the relative of al Hilli that said investigating his work will show the facts.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Cezus is owned by the Areva group which in 2007 was forced to deny a report in Der Spiegel that it had flouted UN sanctions by providing Iran with enriched uranium.

The Mirror is speculating something about an inheritance of £4m being uncovered, as a possible motive though just a theory.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

reply to post by aLLeKs


It is a bit odd the thread has gotten so bare, perhaps the mention of MOSSAD or something has such an effect?

I agree about it being suspicious and it was probably a meeting and a hit intended for them both, and also think it suspicious they were found by an ex RAF guy.

Hi
Couple of reasons for lack of interest.

Not headline news any-more.
Not American/UFO/Doom based.
Probably more to this than has appeared so far, so a deliberate down playing of information thus a genuine conspiracy?
A lot like all the other strange deaths (Suicides?) that have recently occurred with intelligence and scientific persons, the topics quickly fading from view.

Sure I heard on Radio 4 news over the weekend, confirmation that only one gunman involved. So, as the people in the car were found sitting (?) how come one man was able to shoot them all in the head? (Nobody tried to get away while any one person being shot?)

Have both girls now been returned to the UK? If so that does that not seem a little strange? Sure the French are very able to look after them, but it does remove survivors from direct French police investigations?

Maybe a quick recap is needed, please correct or add facts as I am not clear in my own mind what is now known and I am working from memory.

Holiday-making family are staying at various places in France, but not staying in hotels which I guess they could easily afford.
They like the great outdoors.
Visits and visitors are numerous.
They do not seem to have completely unpacked the car, thus expect to move on at short notice.
On a days (?) outing to a local beauty spot, they sit in the car while being shot.
A French cyclist arrives and is also shot.
An English, ex RAF, cyclist then arrives having heard shots being fired and sees a motorcyclist and another vehicle depart the scene.
This other vehicle is probably a 4x4 coloured, white, black, green and may have been found some distance away.
The driver of this vehicle may have been seen by a motorist travelling in the opposite direction as she is forced to swerve out of its way.
The weapon used was old but still available and required reloading part way through the shooting.
Some connection to nuclear/aerial surveillance/illegal supplies/inheritance.
A neighbour has suggested that he was left with some information that he would only tell to the police
A garden shed which might have housed suspicious materials/lots of computers. Maybe booby trapped hence bomb disposal support being called in?

What have I missed? Links, well it can all be found on this or other news reports.

Len Deighton would have had a field day with all this, I think. Must admit my pen is itching to write that book that everyone has inside them if only I could tie together all these details with the recent deaths and current political situation.

Please add to or amend these details if you are aware of new info or incorrect info that I have listed.

Originally posted by dowot
Have both girls now been returned to the UK? If so that does that not seem a little strange? Sure the French are very able to look after them, but it does remove survivors from direct French police investigations?

That's not strange at all. They are UK nationals as well as minors and as such, have been repatriated to be cared for (and protected). The French have virtually unfettered access to the UK with plenty of assistance being offered by Surrey police and others, if they so wish, they can interview them again in the future.

Personally, I am leaning towards the French cyclist being an interesting angle with the British family just in the wrong place at the wrong time. No witnesses and all that.

reply to post by stumason


Maybe maybe not. Seemed a bit quick for the girl who was shot, but you are right, a move back to the UK would happen. (Having a relation currently in a French hospital I know where I would prefer to be!)

The fact that two cyclists were using that road, within a short period of time,seems to indicate a well used cycleway and the French are a bit fanatical about cycling.

Maybe the fact that all those dead were still sitting in the car when shot adds a little to your idea that the French cyclist was the original target. Maybe we are looking at this as a UK conspiracy when in fact it is a French conspiracy?

Why do you think the older girl was out of the car?

I maybe have miss heard a radio report that implied that the RAF man arrived on scene and the French mans bicycle wheel was still spinning. (When I first heard this I thought they meant the cars wheel(s) were spinning but realised that this would be unlikely.) Would that have meant the people in the car were killed before the French cyclist arrived, would he have not been more alert because of the noise?

Originally posted by dowot
The fact that two cyclists were using that road, within a short period of time,seems to indicate a well used cycleway and the French are a bit fanatical about cycling.

Maybe the fact that all those dead were still sitting in the car when shot adds a little to your idea that the French cyclist was the original target. Maybe we are looking at this as a UK conspiracy when in fact it is a French conspiracy?

Or maybe the killer was expecting the other (British) cyclist, but the French cyclist arrived first.

Why do you think the older girl was out of the car?

That's one of the most intriguing things in this case, and I haven't seen any explanation for that.

I maybe have miss heard a radio report that implied that the RAF man arrived on scene and the French mans bicycle wheel was still spinning. (When I first heard this I thought they meant the cars wheel(s) were spinning but realised that this would be unlikely.) Would that have meant the people in the car were killed before the French cyclist arrived, would he have not been more alert because of the noise?

From what I understood, the car had its back against the side of the parking area and its wheels were still spinning (the first photos that showed the car show that the wheels had dug into the ground), that's why he broke the glass to turn off the engine.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Or maybe the killer was expecting the other (British) cyclist, but the French cyclist arrived first.

Unlikely, for several reasons. The supposed attackers (at at least, the cars seen leaving the area) passed the RAF chappy and did nothing. Secondly, he has gone public and made no effort to hide who he is, not the behaviour of someone who might have a contract out on him. Thirdly, the French dude worked for a Nuclear company with previous dodgy ties to Iran (selling enriched Uranium for example), amongst other places. It seems logical to think he may well have had been involved in something fishy.

Originally posted by ArMaP
That's one of the most intriguing things in this case, and I haven't seen any explanation for that.

Really? It's hardly a mystery to imagine. Someone starts shooting up your parents car, Mum shouts something like "Run!!" and you bloody well run, or she ran of her own volition. The fact the other girl was found hiding under her mothers skirt suggests that it might well have been a case of the older girl getting out the car and the mother seeing her be attacked, who then tells the younger to hide before she is killed herself.

Originally posted by ArMaP
From what I understood, the car had its back against the side of the parking area and its wheels were still spinning (the first photos that showed the car show that the wheels had dug into the ground), that's why he broke the glass to turn off the engine.

Or...

French dude gets shot, then family pull up and see the scene, they attempt to reverse and speed away but are gunned down as potential witnesses. The driver, now minus a significant portion of his brain, is slumped on the controls with his foot pressed down, but the gravelly surface and high revs dig the car in?

Originally posted by stumason
Really? It's hardly a mystery to imagine. Someone starts shooting up your parents car, Mum shouts something like "Run!!" and you bloody well run, or she ran of her own volition.

If the gunman was outside why get out of the car? And why only that girl did it? And what happened first, was she shot first and hit after or was it the other way? If she was hit on the head first then it means that she was close to the attacker, if she was shot first why not shoot her again and only hit hear?

Or...

French dude gets shot, then family pull up and see the scene, they attempt to reverse and speed away but are gunned down as potential witnesses. The driver, now minus a significant portion of his brain, is slumped on the controls with his foot pressed down, but the gravelly surface and high revs dig the car in?

I don't understand why you added that part, I only said that the car's wheels were still spinning, and that can only happen, as far as I know if something was pressing the accelerator.

So let me get this straight.....We have an Iraqi nuclear physicist and a French supplier of nuclear materiels shot dead together under rather mysterious circumstances and nobody finds this in any way suspicious?

Does anybody know what the white ski like elements of the roof rack on that BMW are? One of them is missing and there are some interesting marks in the dust around the other.....Might they be hollow? Somewhere you could hide documents perhaps?

Originally posted by squarehead666
So let me get this straight.....We have an Iraqi nuclear physicist and a French supplier of nuclear materiels shot dead together under rather mysterious circumstances and nobody finds this in any way suspicious?

It is obviously suspicious, I said it and others did too. Seeing as the guy was secretly meeting people at a campsite, this was possibly another guy he was meeting or somehow involved, perhaps they arranged to meet the guy that did it.

ETA he was an engineer working on a secret nuclear project, as well as the spying thing and other supposed 'companies', which look like fronts to something else.