So why are jobs going overseas?

This is a thread hopefully filling the role of discussion regarding once-American jobs going overseas.

We seem to accept this trend with a nod of understanding, an acknowledgment that we accept it as a simple business plan in this modern world. There they go, and they're not coming back.

So...why exactly is this?

Firstly, I imagine it's all based on net cost of the company creating a good, for net profit, right? This makes enough sense. If they can pay substantially less to make a product for a US consumer, at a "affordable" price, it's win win, right? Especially if they can create the same, or almost, same level of quality as they could in country.

Electronics, for example, or rather electronic consumer goods(TV's, blu ray, computers, etc etc). It's always a constantly expanding market. The next best thing comes out every 6 months. The price for the new item jumps sky high, and within a year, is standard and costs 1/8th of the new wave price, at, seemingly, the same price to produce, a neat trick we keep falling for. "OH! It's so much improved! I have to have it NOW!." Those products were made months ago, they are making the next, new and improved run at the moment you buy the brand new product that will cost substantially less if you wait just a few months. It makes sense to them absolutely. Keep gradually expanding the line of product and price, and people will pay it just to have the latest and greatest.

It's the side effects that I note. When I was a youngster, not that long ago at all, there used to be electronic/TV repair shops. When was the last time you saw an electronic repair shop that wasn't upper crust-high end? It's got to be at least a decade. Why bother when you can buy a new one a year later that is better, for less than it would cost to repair it?

I know this is a bit of a rant, and at that a rambling one, but as I see it, this whole overseas job outlet is almost, entirely owned to what we know as mass consumerism.

My dad was an audiophile, for those who are unaware of this term, one who was into high end audio equipment(speakers, pre/post amps, record players, etc etc). I'm a guitarist into similar, older, higher end amps/effects etc etc, and I just note that this previous, albeit higher end(at the time) gear was of such a better quality, it bends the mind to think what they charge now for, essentially, crap goods that won't last more than two years, at the most. And really, the defining aspect in this particular case is that technology is growing at a rate as such, compared to the past where a TV might last 15-20 years, they last 3-5 which is generally acceptable.

I guess, what I'm really getting at, is this question...

Are we as a whole, better off with these overseas "crap" products, at the cost of in house jobs to fix them, or are we better off having cheap consumer goods.

Is mass, compulsive consumerism the cause, and is this a good or bad thing?

Thanks for your comments.

Because the socialists are taxing everyone to death in order to provide for the poor and progressives are over-regulating businesses to death trying to emulate Europe's systems so they can't really do anything without getting in trouble somewhere.

That's the simple answer.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Because the socialists are taxing everyone to death in order to provide for the poor and progressives are over-regulating businesses to death trying to emulate Europe's systems so they can't really do anything without getting in trouble somewhere.

That's the simple answer.

I don't exactly think that is that is the simple answer. In my eyes, that's more of a simple political cop out. Really, I don't think there is a simple answer. And in addition, I don't think your post makes much sense.

It's a complex issue with a complex answer, maybe no answer. I do see it as a reality that we need to at least think about, and why we collectively were led to this point.

reply to post by FrostForests


All it boils down to is the bottom line,money...I think companys that move jobs over seas should be fined heavily, Or fire the people who made the decision to do so.

Originally posted by thepolish1
reply to post by FrostForests

 

All it boils down to is the bottom line,money...I think companys that move jobs over seas should be fined heavily, Or fire the people who made the decision to do so.

The same companies sent lobbyist to pay off politicians and in turn allow these practices. There is no way to stop this without revolution of some sort, but I'm afraid that window has passed.

And that's another point, if the companies that control these products and services are getting no negative consumer feedback, or rather not enough valid feedback simply because this has become the status quo, is it really so wrong? And as noted, it all has come down to money.

I hear folks saying they call customer service, and get some "Foreign speaking person I can't understand!"

Ok. So the company puts a 40 cent surcharge on each bill to allocate funds to transfer calls to a service center in the US paying employees minimum wage.

"I don't think so! I'm not paying 40 cents a month to speak to an American!"

So...where is the line drawn?

corporate profit ... looks better on the annual reports to the shareholders that some poor person abroad is making less than the item sells for in a month ... living in subhuman accomadations slaving 20 hours + a day then committing suicide all so fat .. lazy.. westerners can have the latest idiot device and designer clothes ...

reply to post by wingsfan


OK, for example... a big company about 17 years ago had a great thing going....Everything in the store was made in the U S A. Well the owner died, and the inheritance of this "company" to his family has made the company do a 180. 17 years ago, managers cared about employees, now they treat you like $h1t. Yeah they give employees a discount, 5%, Gee, you save almost the cost in taxes, which is a Tax write off for them......makes me sick

Originally posted by FrostForests
This is a thread hopefully filling the role of discussion regarding once-American jobs going overseas.

We seem to accept this trend with a nod of understanding, an acknowledgment that we accept it as a simple business plan in this modern world. There they go, and they're not coming back.

So...why exactly is this?

Are we as a whole, better off with these overseas "crap" products, at the cost of in house jobs to fix them, or are we better off having cheap consumer goods.

Does the current economy look like we are better off? We need manufacturing jobs in this country; the U.S. cannot survive without producing something for export, besides debt based money. The service and Retail industries cannot support the average family of two, let alone a family with children.

Is mass, compulsive consumerism the cause, and is this a good or bad thing?

Mass consumerism could be one of the causes, but it doesn't cover everything.
Mass compulsive consumerism is definitely a bad thing. Consumerism alone - not so much, in my opinion.

1.) NAFTA is short for the North American Free Trade Agreement. NAFTA covers Canada, the U.S. and Mexico making it the world’s largest free trade area (in terms of GDP). NAFTA was launched 20 years ago to reduce trading costs, increase business investment, and help North America be more competitive in the global marketplace.

NAFTA was signed by President George H.W. Bush (Bush 1), Mexican President Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney in 1992.
It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on December 8, 1993 and entered force January 1, 1994.

useconomy.about.com...

2.) CAFTA is short for the Central America Free Trade Agreement.
The agreement is a treaty under international law, but not under the United States Constitution. In the U.S., laws require majority approval in both houses, while treaties require two-thirds approval in the Senate only. Under U.S. law, CAFTA-DR is a congressional-executive agreement.

The implementing legislation became Public Law 109-053 when it was signed by President George W. Bush (Bush 2 - Dubya) on August 2, 2005.

www.ustr.gov...

Emphasis mine.


Businesses leave a country when it becomes hard/unprofitable to operate in that country, they also leave when it is MORE profitable to operate in another country. Lower wages, less environmental restrictions, less taxes, etc...

The U.S. Consumer market is the largest market in the world but is by no means the only market.

Well I guess I will tell a story from here in Florida that will make you wonder on why jobs and technology is being shipped overseas.

I guess I can start with the Stimulus Money for St Lucie County Florida, Port St Lucie Florida and Florida itself. Three different sets of Stimulus Money given out by Barak Obama to create jobs. But the Republicans in Florida had other plans. Well heres one article that talks about the 20 million for Digital Domain from the State of Florida and another 51.8 million from the City of Port St Lucie. link And that is not everything they have got. They got write offs for taxes, write offs for permits to build and so on. Then the president of Digital Domain set up a deal so Port St Lucie could get a city in China to be a sister city? link What exactly is a sister city? Who knows. But I guess it has to do with this nonprofit. link The next step for the President of Digital Domain was to setup a transfer student exchange so he could get students to the Indian River State College.

Now a article.
www.cartoonbrew.com...

Classes starting in the education space, what’s interesting is the relationship between the digital studio and the college. Â Not only is this a first in a number of ways that we’ve talked about, but 30% of the workforce at our digital studio down in Florida, is not only going to be free, with student labor, it’s going to be labor that’s actually paying us for the privilege of working on our films. Now this was the controversial element of this and the first discussions with the Department of Education, ’cause it sounds like you’re taking advantage of the students. Â But we were able to persuade even the academic community, if we don’t do something to dramatically reduce costs in our industry, not only ours but many other industries in this country, then we’re going to lose these industries .. we’re going to lose these jobs. Â And our industry was going very quickly to India and China.

He is going to use free labor from the College and he is going to be paid to have them work for him. So how is he going to do this? Check out some of the money from around the world he is getting. He got 50 million from China cash. He got 70 million from China to help pay for the land in Port St Lucie. Something I guess the Stimulus did not pay enough for. But he is also building a place in China. China will pay to have their students sent to Port St Lucie to learn at the new Digital Domain Building. But that is not all of it. There is still more countries. Abu Dhabi is also giving him 100's of millions and also building a facility there for Digital Domain.link And they now opened up in India. But I thought he said we were trying to keep up with these place? He is bringing them here to teach them while he gets paid for them to work on his projects. Like the hologram Tupac. That was a advertising piece to bring in more money from overseas to his pocket.

I don't know what any of this has to do with Job Stimulus for Florida. It all sounds like a man who found a way to get rich for free. And don't forget he is selling all this technology and software to other countries and teaching them how to use it. Not a student here in the United States. And then you have him suing people for patents infringements to protect his profit and selling to other countries.

Thanks Governor Charlie Crist and Rick Scott.

reply to post by FrostForests


If you are hiring for 1 position and 2 people apply for said job.
Man A says he can make that product, all included for 10$ an hour.
Man B says he can do almost a good of job as Man A, but he will only charge 0.02$ an hour.

Who do you hire?

reply to post by FrostForests




Really, thats your take on it. Lets see. They don't have to pay for medicare, they don't need insurance, No federal taxes, state taxes, city taxes.They pay low wages, no regulations or inspectors fee's breathing down their back, No laws on hour of work or break, no minimum wages, no unions or dues or fees, low rent fee's if they don't own the building, ceo's get paid less, and cost to run the plants sewer,water,electric and gas is far cheaper along with any materials they need to buy to make their products. They run sweat shops over there and we all know about them, we see them on t.v all the time. When u hear a job that says they are going global, thats another term for see ya later alligator, we are going over sea's. Everyone knows this. This is how they want america. CHEAP and to have the products that they make only last for a total of 4 or less years till it needs repairs. Thats buisness, thats how it works, to keep you buying, it keeps the cycle going and leaves the consumer broke. It is purposefully designed this way. You think that since the company saves so much money that maybe the employees get a better pay. NO WAY. 50% OR MORE of all manufacturing jobs went overseas and that does not count the other than manufacturing jobs that went overseas. The never ending cycle of well, we sucked these people dry, lets go over to another country and pay them less and suck them dry next. It is the GREEDERS never ending cycle. You get put down and if you stand up for yourself, you get labels branded on you and other companies won't hire you. Oh yeah, that sounds like a paradise waiting for us at the end of that rainbow. Some people want to much and never give to the poor and treat them like dirt when they are the workers who pour sweat out to make them rich. SAD,SAD,SAD. This process will only grow and the u.s will be over the hill where all the rest of the old go. This, is your future. OH, and i forgot. hush,hush,hush don't hire the dissabled.

Originally posted by FrostForests
And that's another point, if the companies that control these products and services are getting no negative consumer feedback, or rather not enough valid feedback simply because this has become the status quo, is it really so wrong? And as noted, it all has come down to money.

I hear folks saying they call customer service, and get some "Foreign speaking person I can't understand!"

Ok. So the company puts a 40 cent surcharge on each bill to allocate funds to transfer calls to a service center in the US paying employees minimum wage.

"I don't think so! I'm not paying 40 cents a month to speak to an American!"

So...where is the line drawn?

This is just an excuse. A company like Microsoft for example, makes billions of dollars per year in profits. These companies could operate call centers out of the US pay employees above minimum wage and give them full benefits without having to charge the consumer extra. They have plenty of money, they just cry when they have to give something back.

i think i can explain it.

i can remember back in the 80s/90s....nearly all countries signed with each other what are called "free trade agreements". this allows every country to freely trade with each other. basically it was just a way for big companies to get cheap overseas labour.

its the same here in australia. we have lost many many jobs and this is happening daily.

reply to post by FrostForests


I would have to say, that is one thing that horkes me off, try to get an issue resolved, by phone, for any company, and you spend a half an hour trying to get the person to understand you, or vice a versa. If anyone knows someone who works for any of these call centers, tell them to open one here, I'll run the place, know alot of people who need a good job.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Because the socialists are taxing everyone to death in order to provide for the poor and progressives are over-regulating businesses to death trying to emulate Europe's systems so they can't really do anything without getting in trouble somewhere.

That's the simple answer.

Yano, someone could ask you what day of the week it is and you'd still break out into anti-liberal rant. You a bloody paid agent or something!?

Originally posted by gostr
reply to post by FrostForests

 

If you are hiring for 1 position and 2 people apply for said job.
Man A says he can make that product, all included for 10$ an hour.
Man B says he can do almost a good of job as Man A, but he will only charge 0.02$ an hour.

Who do you hire?

I forgot how slavery is still acceptable... As long as its not an american right?

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Because the socialists are taxing everyone to death in order to provide for the poor and progressives are over-regulating businesses to death trying to emulate Europe's systems so they can't really do anything without getting in trouble somewhere.

That's the simple answer.

No, that is not the answer. Please stop confusing socialists with liberals.

"Liberalism is not socialism and never will be" Winston Churchill, 1908, as the Liberal Party candidate for Dundee

Winston BTW was a conservative from the upper classes, his father was a Lord. Liberalism (not libertarian) came from the right conservatives as a way to appease the workers. It maintained capitalism but with a social safety net payed for by the workers. It was a win-win for the capitalists.

There are no socialists in government. The liberals are not socialists, they're not even left-wing in the true traditional sense of the term. Liberals can be as fascist and right wing as conservatives. That is one of the many reasons people are so confused as to what socialism actually is. If you simply took the time to actually find out, but then I might as well suggest knitting a wooly jumper. Just remember liberals are not socialists, so when a liberal does, or claims something, it does not become the definition of socialism. Some liberals might think they are socialists, but just like you they are unfortunately misled by the MSM.

Socialism will always mean worker ownership, not capitalism with a social safety net.

As far as jobs going overseas we are in a global market, and we now have to compete for jobs with other nations.
The Chinese, for example, work longer hours for less pay. They have less government restrictions on industry than we do. But that is changing, and soon the capitalists will look for cheaper labour again somewhere else. The business cycle will continue to make capitalists wealthy, and leave in their wake unemployment and poverty.

This is just one of the problems of globalization, what the capitalists have been working towards for a couple of centuries.

Like most other things these days, it all comes down to money. As far as Wall Street banks are concerned, which lets not forget is also a big investor and shareholder in big corporations, there can NEVER be enough profit. The term "Money Junkies" describes them perfectly. They don't care that the economy is tanking and people are out of work, losing their homes and livelihoods, as long as the bottom line increases and they get a better return on their stock portfolios.

Even better, most of the big corporations who sent all the jobs overseas, now have huge amounts of profit sitting in foreign banks and want to bring that money home. So, lobby the government for a tax holiday to allow them to bring the money home and pay, if anything, a pittance in tax, although it's more likely they'd pay nothing at all because, well, they'll reinvest that money in the economy and create jobs... right?

The world revolves around money, or should I say debt, and the lives of people around the world ruined by the pursuit of it by criminals in expensive suits matters not one bit to them.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Nope. Liberals suck, and are the most intolerant and bigoted people of all. What makes them worse than conservatives is that they always play stupid games and hide their bigotry behind a cloak of morality. such as screaming racism over every single disagreement to shut honest discussion down. Conservatives have their bigotries and intolerance, but they're more straightforward and you know where you stand with them. No so with a liberal.

I'm really getting tired of you guys calling me a shill because I disagree with you.

Why don't you learn that there are more possibilities than someone either agrees with you or they're a shill? Why don't you open your mind rather than create this false dichotomy?