Australian Military Is Responsible For Murdering Innocent Afghans.

Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai has condemned what he called a 'unilateral operation' by Australian troops in southern Uruzgan province, saying it breached an agreement with NATO. Karzai was responding to an apparent Australian operation on Friday in which a tribal elder, Raz Mohammad Khan, 70, and his son Abdul Jalil, 30, were killed. 'Raz Mohammad ... had no relationship with the government or the militants. He and his son were the victims of wrong reports received by Australian troops regarding (their) relations with the Taliban,' said Abdullah Hemmat, the provincial spokesman.

www.skynews.com.au...

This story is being underreported. The Australian media are trying to gloss over the whole thing. We have seen MPs are now willing to come out and be openly critical of the so called 'war' by saying that the Australian Politicians have "blood on their hands" since five more Australians were killed last week.. They do.

The Australian Army obviously thought they could just murder a couple randomn Afghans and claim they had got the person responsible for the '"green on blue' attack that killed three Australians. Aussie Aussie aussie right? Do they think we are American? Do they think the Australian public will feel better after a "man hunt"? Its like they thought they would get a reaction like the Americans got when they claimed they killed Osama. Americans on the streets chanting USA USA USA!

We are not American. Australians do not get off on revenge. Australia doesnt even have Capital Punishment. Why would the Australian public feel better about Australian lives being lost just because our soldiers carry out a revenge murder? And they couldnt even get that right. They murdered innocent people. One of the innocent people murdered was a 70 year old man. Aussie Aussie Aussie right? Wrong.

Yesterday we saw the media filled with propaganda military Fathers Day messages. Hmmm. Very newsworthy isnt it? A Fathers Day message from soldiers. Aussie Aussie Aussie! But this important story is being glossed over.

Our duopoly does not want people questioning our involvment but more and more are saying the truth. We are only in Afghanistan to appease the United States. Our duopoly are puppets of the United States. The 'war on terror' has made that fact clear,. I am glad MPs are coming out and speaking against this lunacy.

It sounds like Australia is ignoring Afghan Presidents condemnation. It sounds like the soldiers that murdered this 70 year old man and his son will face no consequences. Australia are saying that the President of Afghanistan is wrong. Im sure Australia is quite irked and they wish this product of Afghan 'democracy' would just shut his mouth and know his place.

We should all email Independant Andrew Wilkie, Liberal MP Mal Washer and Greens MP Adam Bandt for speaking the truth. Not many of our politicians have the guts to speak out against our blind, no gain alliance with the United States. Thank god we have a few politicians with some guts. They know the blood is on their hands and its getting harder for them all to bite their tongues.

there is no Australia
no great Britain, no Canada

we are already the new western alliance.

doing the bidding of our corporate overlords.

but its ok, we have new big brother and the war on internet trolls to make us feel safe...

Originally posted by okamitengu
there is no Australia
no great Britain, no Canada

we are already the new western alliance.

doing the bidding of our corporate overlords.

but its ok, we have new big brother and the war on internet trolls to make us feel safe...

I agree. Its a shame Australia is in the East isnt it?

We are so clever. We keep our 'enemies' closer.

We are the front line.

reply to post by freemarketsocialist

Dear freemarketsocialist,

Hello, nice to see you again. You seem to be an intelligent poster and I'm grateful for that.

I suppose I shouldn't be replying. I know almost zero about Australia and its many facets, it's three o'clock in the morning and I'm a little goofy, and I know nothing more about it than the article you've linked to. Feel free, therefore, to laugh your head off

'Raz Mohammad ... had no relationship with the government or the militants. He and his son were the victims of wrong reports received by Australian troops regarding (their) relations with the Taliban,' said Abdullah Hemmat, the provincial spokesman.

So the soldiers thought, reasonably but incorrectly, that they were Taliban.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the suicide bombings near a military base in Wardak province.

Eight civilians and four police were killed, while 47 civilians, seven police officers, three intelligence officers and two soldiers from the NATO-led coalition were wounded, Shahed said.

Maybe I'm suffering from "Outrage Fatigue," but this story leads me to believe that the Australians are being condemned for making a deadly mistake, and the Taliban is getting a pass, at least in your post. I would like to see the Taliban cursed in the press as inhuman killers of innocents that need to be stopped.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


I didnt mean to give the Taliban a pass. I just feel as though there is a double standard. It seems that Australian lives are worth more than the lives of Afghans. I hate that mentality.

My beef is with Australias two major parties Labor and Liberal. I also feel as though the Australian media is blatantly pro war.

This whole incident shines a bright light on our pro war duopoly and pro war media in my opinion.

I also think that Australians must take responsiblity for our actions. We cant just blame the United States. The blood is on our hands too.

reply to post by freemarketsocialist

Dear freemarketsocialist,

Thanks a lot for setting me straight, I misunderstood.

Ok, I can agree. But I would rather put the blame on the government's hands. I know that tends to dilute responsibility, but I can't imagine the conditions the troops are fighting under. I'm sure that Australia and the US can find some war criminals in their ranks, my personal bias is to cut the individual soldiers a little slack.

But again, I'm not really disagreeing with you.

With respect,
Charles1952

I'm not saying its right, but in war mistakes happen.

If every soldier that fights a war was held liable for mistakes made during combat, how many soldiers would join up in the first place?

Of course it's under reported nationality has nothing to do with, no nation would seek to make a huge deal about such a thing.

They have to keep feeding the beast, they cant let themselves lose recruits because of something reported now can they?

It's why they do their best not to make a big deal about losses of soldiers as well, so it's not just inoccent deaths that gets under reported.

War has been and always will be a showcase for the worst man kind has to offer, even in a justified war this would happen.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by freemarketsocialist

 

Dear freemarketsocialist,

Thanks a lot for setting me straight, I misunderstood.

Ok, I can agree. But I would rather put the blame on the government's hands. I know that tends to dilute responsibility, but I can't imagine the conditions the troops are fighting under. I'm sure that Australia and the US can find some war criminals in their ranks, my personal bias is to cut the individual soldiers a little slack.

But again, I'm not really disagreeing with you.

With respect,
Charles1952

Yeah, I see what you are saying.

I could not comprehend how the soldiers feel. It must be similar to the paranoia felt by those that fought in Vietnam. They would always be looking over their shoulders wondering who is friend and who is enemy.

I can get carried away a little.

In my opinion bringing the troops home is the best option. There are no clear objectives and no guarantee of success in Afghanistan anyway. It seems like time to cut our loses. It has cost Australian lives. It has cost unthinkable Australian tax dollars. It has also caused floods of refugees to board leaky boats and make their way to our country seeking asylum. All Australia ever talks about is 'boat people' yet they never seem to mention that a huge percentage of those that are 'boat people' are from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Originally posted by benrl
I'm not saying its right, but in war mistakes happen.

If every soldier that fights a war was held liable for mistakes made during combat, how many soldiers would join up in the first place?

Of course it's under reported nationality has nothing to do with, no nation would seek to make a huge deal about such a thing.

They have to keep feeding the beast, they cant let themselves lose recruits because of something reported now can they?

It's why they do their best not to make a big deal about losses of soldiers as well, so it's not just inoccent deaths that gets under reported.

War has been and always will be a showcase for the worst man kind has to offer, even in a justified war this would happen.

edit on 3-9-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

Yeah. The medias response is the most troubling apect for me. And how are politicians have handled it for the most part.

I just hate that there is an agenda being pushed and that debate is muzzled. When one of our MPs said the politicians had "blood on their hands" they were brushed off by the media and had their integrity attacked when Gillard called the comments "ugly language".

Is this a big deal in other countries?

The United States military got alot of bad press any time it is claimed that they have taken innocent lives.

Why is everyone taking it easy on Australia?

Originally posted by freemarketsocialist
I didnt mean to give the Taliban a pass. I just feel as though there is a double standard. It seems that Australian lives are worth more than the lives of Afghans. I hate that mentality.

As long as there are borders, reasons to have borders and people of various desires, wants, greed and need, you will have conflict.

It's NOT the best way to win a conflict, by saying how badly our own guys are. No wonder this world is in a mess. People are ignoring their own people in favour of someone they will never meet.

Is an Aussie life worth more than an Afghani? On merit, no. We all die the same red and all turn into dust.

Is an Aussie life worth more than an Afghani IN A WAR? If you need cliffs notes on this, there is no point.

It's war, like it or not. Justified or not. Historically notable or not. It's a war.

And it pisses me no end when I hear people accuse the men and women who are out there risking their lives for whatever purpose they are told, whatever purpose they feel, of being murderers and gun-ho happy barbarians.

I say this to you, and to anyone who feels that inclination. Why are YOU not out there on the enemy lines fighting this atrocity? Why are you sitting at home, where these people who you so eagerly criticise hail from, and berating the state of affairs? Cowards.

If you think the enemy is so hard done by, go fly over there and become a citizen. Go. No one here will miss you.

I have a sign I so mad, but forgot it because I on internet. rarr..

And just to clarify

If we screw up, you damn well know we get pulled in for it. BIG TIME. To think otherwise, and that some scumbag murderers are parading around in uniform eager to kill brown people.. well, just go there. Go wear the enemy uniform, and make your point.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by freemarketsocialist

 

Dear freemarketsocialist,

Thanks a lot for setting me straight, I misunderstood.

Ok, I can agree. But I would rather put the blame on the government's hands. I know that tends to dilute responsibility, but I can't imagine the conditions the troops are fighting under. I'm sure that Australia and the US can find some war criminals in their ranks, my personal bias is to cut the individual soldiers a little slack.

But again, I'm not really disagreeing with you.

I agree with you. Our bogan Prime Minister has bleated for years that 'we are there to get the job done'. None of us got a straight answer when she was asked to elaborate. She's run out of excuses but our rentgirl for the CIA sees herself as doing the right thing. She sees our very young service people as being her 'throw-away' soldiers and giving her gred with the CIA. The people of Iraq and Afghanistan never deserved what we helped to heap upon them. By staying in Afghanistan I cannot see that we will ever be able to undo the damage we have done. We need to go a.s.a.p.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by freemarketsocialist


Well said mate, What I can stand it the Hypricroacy and the fundmantal dishonesty of the australian politicians and the media. They always portray the Australian solidiers as the good guys and the afghans as the bad guys.

If they were honest they would refer to the Autralians and Americans as invaders because thats exactly what they are and they would refer to the afghan resistance fighters as exacly that because thats exactly what they are.

These same people are so dishonest that if china invaded australiia to potects its strategic interest the government, the politicans the media would be exhorting us to all join the milittree to thow the invaders out.

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by freemarketsocialist


Is an Aussie life worth more than an Afghani IN A WAR? If you need cliffs notes on this, there is no point.

It's war, like it or not. Justified or not. Historically notable or not. It's a war.

And it pisses me no end when I hear people accuse the men and women who are out there risking their lives for whatever purpose they are told, whatever purpose they feel, of being murderers and gun-ho happy barbarians.

a) - It's war, like it or not. Justified or not. Historically notable or not. It's a war.- So why complinn when Australian soldiers get killed, why treat them like hero's?

b) And it pisses me no end when I hear people accuse the men and women who are out there risking their lives for whatever purpose they are told, whatever purpose they feel, - If they are happy to poorly paid mercaeries for big American business whose fault is that???

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by freemarketsocialist
I didnt mean to give the Taliban a pass. I just feel as though there is a double standard. It seems that Australian lives are worth more than the lives of Afghans. I hate that mentality.

As long as there are borders, reasons to have borders and people of various desires, wants, greed and need, you will have conflict.

It's NOT the best way to win a conflict, by saying how badly our own guys are. No wonder this world is in a mess. People are ignoring their own people in favour of someone they will never meet.

Is an Aussie life worth more than an Afghani? On merit, no. We all die the same red and all turn into dust.

Is an Aussie life worth more than an Afghani IN A WAR? If you need cliffs notes on this, there is no point.

It's war, like it or not. Justified or not. Historically notable or not. It's a war.

And it pisses me no end when I hear people accuse the men and women who are out there risking their lives for whatever purpose they are told, whatever purpose they feel, of being murderers and gun-ho happy barbarians.

I say this to you, and to anyone who feels that inclination. Why are YOU not out there on the enemy lines fighting this atrocity? Why are you sitting at home, where these people who you so eagerly criticise hail from, and berating the state of affairs? Cowards.

If you think the enemy is so hard done by, go fly over there and become a citizen. Go. No one here will miss you.

I have a sign I so mad, but forgot it because I on internet. rarr..

And just to clarify

If we screw up, you damn well know we get pulled in for it. BIG TIME. To think otherwise, and that some scumbag murderers are parading around in uniform eager to kill brown people.. well, just go there. Go wear the enemy uniform, and make your point.

Blah blah.

Your nationalism is stupid. We are not at war with "Afghans". And their lives are worth just as much as any other.

It pisses me off to no end when guys get on here being defensive of the military. It is clear that the military is not defending Australia. There is no need to be in Afghanistan.

If you are scared of terrorists then I think you should settle down. Dont be so very afraid. There is no need to be wasting taxpayer money on Australian Soldiers in Afghanistan.

I just love hearing about an airsrike being called in on a broken down Aussie military vehicle just because they cant fix it where it is and cant leave it incase the Taliban grab it. Tax dollars well spent hey? The whole thing is nonsense and you know it.

The MPs said "blood on their hands" they were talking about the polticians. they think the politicians must take responsibilty. Many have responsibilty. Especially at this late stage. You could claim to be gullible at the start of the "war on terror" but come on.

Many have responsibility.

I also do not appreciate you telling me that I am the "enemy".

I also didnt know the "enemy" had a uniform. Did we give them uniforms when they were fighting the commies for us?

Originally posted by learnatic
reply to post by freemarketsocialist

 

Well said mate, What I can stand it the Hypricroacy and the fundmantal dishonesty of the australian politicians and the media. They always portray the Australian solidiers as the good guys and the afghans as the bad guys.

If they were honest they would refer to the Autralians and Americans as invaders because thats exactly what they are and they would refer to the afghan resistance fighters as exacly that because thats exactly what they are.

These same people are so dishonest that if china invaded australiia to potects its strategic interest the government, the politicans the media would be exhorting us to all join the milittree to thow the invaders out.

The interview with Bob Carr on Sky News touched on all this. The discussion led into China and I think you make a good point. Australia is growing weary of its alliance with the US in many ways. Western Australia has talked about annexing itself from the rest of Australia and becoming a part of Asia pretty much.

We are between a rock and a hard place in many ways.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by freemarketsocialist


Ahh it appears I must bow down to your insults. yours are ok, mine are obviously the stuff of hades.

you know what, I don't care what you think. What I said in my post stands.

If you don't like it, too bad really, I stand up for the men and women of this country who put their lives on the line. you choose not to. And denigrate them. Your posts stand, mine fall.

GO with it. We need more left wing shoe shiners around this place. All knowing how to do war, but always from the home arm chair.

yes.

reply to post by freemarketsocialist


Know what is ironic about this whole scenario? Our soldiers are so good that they have admitted that the "Rogue Shooter" will most likely never be caught... How does one kill 3 Aussie soldiers and simply run off un-noticed? Its a joke...

Next we are killing old tribesmen and their family members.. Whether it had anything to do with the shooting or not, It is wrong and whoever ordered that should be charged. All this will do is give another gunmen ammo to kill more soldiers and then we will be going through this again with another handful dead.

I respect the people fighting over there and they are nothing less than brave, but when we are killing innocent people and justifying it with bullsh!t, I can see why Afghan soldiers, civilians or militia are killing our army members. This is one isolated incident concerning killing innocent civilians. Add 7-8 years of it and you would have a heap of pissed of Afghans who would want nothing more than revenge for the deaths of family members and friends.

I know this part is off topic a bit but I will throw it out there. When our soldiers leave next year, I expect to see those shooters, taliban begin to fluorish and come out of the darkness. Afghanistan is a failure but no doubt when all the soldiers return home, the US and the like of AUS will claim victory while Afghanistan spirals out of control once again. That is just my opinion and I can't wait to see whether this occurs or not.

reply to post by charles1952


It doesn't matter. When it comes down to it, they performed a raid and killed innocents. This has most likely been going on all through the occupation also and I am not surprised that random Afghans are killing allied forces.. Imagine an Afghan occupying force in your country running around killing your friends. Would you cop it on the chin? Or would it make want to kill every towel head you seen in your country? Its not a patriotic thing to say but I can see why they are killing our soldiers.