The Neolithic Breeding Program.

ancient/cromag human breeding is what i remember most about the book The Good Earth, it seems the tribes of northeast europe, especially, selected for eye color, light hair and pale skin. it makes sense also since in areas so far from the equator, a clearer skin is needed for extra vit D synthesis (than those in the tropics laden with UV-absorbing melanin)

reply to post by Kantzveldt

It also needs to be kept in mind that the domestication of plants and animals followed on after the the development of the Neolithic type settlements and the associate people themselves arose.

Despite the first paper you posted in the OP, there is no proof whatsoever that selective breeding of humans preceded that of animals.

They seemingly learnt methodology from whatever principles had been applied within their own society, and of course that was not attempting to introduce plague into livestock and hoping for the best.

As BFFT said, it takes a shoehorn.

reply to post by DangerDeath



All of that assumes someone had a plan...the question would be who?




reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan




You make a good point regarding new mystery cults arising in tandem with advances in agricultural practises, there are any number of shepherd/herd Gods and grain Goddesses that arose thus, as far as the women holding 'cheat codes' i think that's kinda out there...




reply to post by minnow




Of course such choices would first have to be available, there are any number of ethnic groups living at similar latitudes were they aren't.




reply to post by Astyanax




There is exactly the same type of proof that is considered for the domestication of plants and animals, in that from a prior population a new type has derived with physical and behavioural modifications through practises at the early Neolithic settlements.


Behavioural modifications including the origin of Indo-European languages, an entirely new language of symbolic iconography, this in conjunction with the form of the settlements themselves and the acceptance of the associated lifestyle.

Perhaps the evidence from the Sumerian period can give good insight into how the peoples of the region did not differentiate between a breeding programme for people and of animals, the Flood narratives literaly put us in the same boat...






The Sumerian flood narratives involve a reed hut which was the focus for the breeding of animals, as the flood hero also recieves instruction whilst sleeping within such then also they had aspects of Divinination.

The clever aspect of the myths is that the reed hut can double as an ark of salvation in time of calamity, the flood, and yet post calamity then resumes its function of breeding centre to repopulate from the save breeding pairs, thus humanity and the animals are involved in the same process.







Above the concept of the flood myth is recounted to Gilgimish in the boat, with the iconography of the reed hut seen, which dates back to the Neolithic period, in that the fetish poles are derivative of Goddess iconography with extended neck and rings, possibly related to the bee hive on the tree.















The three fetish staves are also an aspect of the Genesis narrative were i pointed out the birthing of the patriarchs of Israel was interwoven with cattle breeding comparative, and there three branch types are utilised, with the branches stripped in streaks to reveal white in conjunction with the darker bark, again referance to the considered type that Israel would be.

The reed stave also became the symbol for the Goddess of sexuality and procreation, Inana, seen below, derivative of the breeding huts.






The architectual aspects of the reed huts are suggestive of the formal arrangemnts seen in Catalhoyuk architecture.













So like i said, the evidence from the earliest times suggest we were in the same boat.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


I use the term "cheat codes" as a metaphor.

The universe tends to run on the concept of cause and effect. If you can determine a cause for an effect, you can exploit that knowledge for your benefit. As an example, if I notice the whole concept of dominant and recessive genes, then I can employ concepts of animal husbandry to create a more desirable offspring, with traits that are superior to its ancestors.

Since women were, for the most part, left to plant the upcoming years crops (they didn't farm like we do today, by clearing land. Instead they planted "crops" by seeding plants back where they found them and then returning when they wee ready to "harvest" the crop). By virtue of their duties in the hunter/gatherer group, they would have had greater opportunity to gain understanding how selective breeding can be manipulated. This knowledge would have given them considerable leveraging power in their soceity.

Throughout history cultures have been dominated by those elements within them that had knowledge. Brute force is nice when you are taking what someone else has. But, if you have knoewledge, you can avoid having to take on the risk of physical aggression by exploiting that knowledge for the good of the society. Egypt would be a great example, whereby the Priest Class held all manner of knowledge of the sciences (the Egyptian Mysteries). In Egypt, the Priest very literally dominated society.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan




It's a well observed principle, for the period in question we should perhaps be looking more at the womens skills in gathering, sifting, refining, preparing and blending...


My favourite story from Sumeria with regards to the aquisition of areas of expertise and authority, is that of Inana were she gets Enki drunk and makes off with as many powers as she can carry. They had the idea of the ME tablet, or MES, which confered upon the owner the rights associated with whatever aspect of life it governed, it illustrates how every aspect of society was broken down into areas of specialization;


Inana, you have brought with you the office of en priest, you have brought with you the office of lagal priest, you have brought with you divinity, you have brought with you the great and good crown, you have brought with you the royal throne.

You have brought with you the noble sceptre, you have brought with you the staff and crook, you have brought with you the noble dress, you have brought with you shepherdship, you have brought with you kingship.

You have brought with you the office of egi-zi priestess, you have brought with you the office of nin-dijir priestess, you have brought with you the office of icib priest, you have brought with you the office of lu-mah priest, you have brought with you the office of gudu priest.

You have brought with you constancy, you have brought with you ......, you have brought with you ......, you have brought with you going down to the underworld, you have brought with you coming up from the underworld, you have brought with you the kur-jara priest.

You have brought with you sword and club, you have brought with you the cultic functionary saj-ursaj, you have brought with you the black garment, you have brought with you the colourful garment, you have brought with you the ...... hair-style, you have brought with you the ...... hair-style.

.You have brought with you the standard, you have brought with you the quiver, you have brought with you sexual intercourse, you have brought with you kissing, you have brought with you prostitution, you have brought with you ...... running (?).

You have brought with you forthright speech, you have brought with you deceitful speech, you have brought with you grandiloquent speech, you have brought with you ......, you have brought with you the cultic prostitute, you have brought with you the holy tavern.

You have brought with you the holy nijin-jar shrine, you have brought with you ......, you have brought with you the hierodule of heaven, you have brought with you loud musical instruments, you have brought with you the art of song, you have brought with you venerable old age.

You have brought with you heroism, you have brought with you power, you have brought with you wickedness, you have brought with you righteousness, you have brought with you the plundering of cities, you have brought with you making lamentations, you have brought with you rejoicing.

You have brought with you deceit, you have brought with you the rebel lands, you have brought with you kindness, you have brought with you being on the move, you have brought with you being sedentary.

You have brought with you the craft of the carpenter, you have brought with you the craft of the coppersmith, you have brought with you the craft of the scribe, you have brought with you the craft of the smith, you have brought with you the craft of the leather-worker, you have brought with you the craft of the fuller, you have brought with you the craft of the builder, you have brought with you the craft of the reed-worker.

You have brought with you wisdom, you have brought with you attentiveness, you have brought with you holy purification rites, you have brought with you the shepherd's hut, you have brought with you piling up glowing charcoals, you have brought with you the sheepfold, you have brought with you respect, you have brought with you awe, you have brought with you reverent silence.

You have brought with you the bitter-toothed (?) ......, you have brought with you the kindling of fire, you have brought with you the extinguishing of fire, you have brought with you hard work, you have brought with you ......, you have brought with you the assembled family, you have brought with you descendants.

You have brought with you strife, you have brought with you triumph, you have brought with you counselling, you have brought with you comforting, you have brought with you judging, you have brought with you decision-making.

You have brought with you the establishing of plans , the attractiveness of women, you have brought with you ...... to handle the perfect divine powers, you have brought with you ...... small ......, you have brought with you ...... exalted ......, you have brought with you the holy tigi, holy lilis, ub, meze and ala drums

The Goddess principle in Ancient Anatolia was all encompassing and much more than a superstitious wisdom afforded to women from knowing plants.

Additionally, the agriculture then was more than just planting seed where they fell. There was specific agriculture.

www.ancientanatolia.com...


books.google.co.uk... lSlfrkg&hl=en#v=onepage&q=


books.google.co.uk...=onepage&q&f=false

I think the Plan has to do with our ability to project. That means, when humans adopted emotions and especially ideas, this ability took over and the materialization of projection is nowadays called TECHNOLOGY. This projection actually takes over, and we serve its logic. As soon as it was possible to create a grand picture of human dominance, mapping the territory and peoples who live there, it was possible to conceive the idea of state. I don't think it was the state as we know it at first, it was more like a peaceful community without the real forceful distribution of authority. However, when bronze was developed, it enabled creation of weapons. This moment, in my hypothesis, marks the moment when political factories were first created - structures like pyramids which actually present a big manipulation of human consciousness and focusing it on political idea - hierarchy, unity, obedience to the idea and its many symbols. Also, creation of monotheistic religion which reflects political idea came about that time, at least in the form of hierarchy among the many gods.

Epic of Gilgamesh is also indicative. The breeding program is not only about quality, it is also about quantity. While for breeding you need females (priestess-whore or some similar ritual), you also need a male who does that - Gilgamesh would walk all around his domain breaking skulls and taking any woman he wanted. This was his prerogative, not just because he was strong enough to impose his will, but it was a law. Like the law of the first night, which survived into the middle ages.

What I want to say is - it is not OUR MIND anymore, it is the idea, technology, which does the work, and we are just its fuel. We follow the logic, logic demands and we never question this submission because we are trained and conditioned to be servile and not to question the authority.

reply to post by DangerDeath



Outstanding post. What you are talking about it the mechanism by which humanity went from individual to collective.

I will have to think on this for awhile, as it implies so much.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Outstanding post. What you are talking about it the mechanism by which humanity went from individual to collective.

I will have to think on this for awhile, as it implies so much.

Sure, this has so many consequences. I can't possibly cover it all.
For instance, when we talk about breeding program. It is not hard to see how much genocide played the role in this breeding. All those who didn't accept the ideology were eliminated this or that way. Intelligent people were eliminated throughout history for not complying (Socrates, Bruno - to name just few among millions). Negative selection in society is ongoing. The whole system is about preventing people to be intelligent...
We know, when Europe was christened, all those who refused it were massacred. All previous culture in many places was destroyed.
Before that, this was also practiced. Romans destroyed almost any trace of Etruscan culture.
Before that, it's in the Bible, this happened many times.
Genocide and prevention of spread of knowledge (Destruction of the "Tower of Babel", today we call it "copyright" - and the way copyright is implemented, is really criminal. Economy is used just as an excuse to implement this kind of ban of knowledge. Even the story of Adam and Eve expulsion from Eden reeks of copyright infringement. "Don't eat from the tree of knowledge!"

Eugenics, all noble houses tried to selectively breed. I don't think they wanted to create better offspring, they just wanted to maintain the status quo. Hitler's "Aryans" were nothing but obedient slaves - Nazis had a program of eliminating all those individuals and nations that were resistant to authority.

One has to really start thinking in order to understand what has really happened to humanity.

reply to post by DangerDeath


Like the ''tree of life / knowledge'' of peaceful existence and that all are connected, that nature provides, arcane wisdom of collective consciousness and ''oneness'' that was deliberately hidden because a certain few want power and control over people, their lives, the food they eat, the things they think (religion), where and how they live (governments) (money) ...well we all know the story....

Thing is, this denial of the natural order has resulted in the mess that humanity is in today. Let's hope things can and will be rectified.

reply to post by DangerDeath

I'm with you 50%.

What I want to say is - it is not OUR MIND anymore, it is the idea, technology, which does the work, and we are just its fuel. We follow the logic, logic demands and we never question this submission because we are trained and conditioned to be servile and not to question the authority.

Well, to be sure, our inventions mould us. Consider the cultural shifts caused by the internal combustion engine, television, mobile phones and the internet. All these things were foreseen by imaginative people before they were invented, but few, or nobody, accurately foretold their effects. And just look what our most successful invention, money, has made of us...

I don't buy the 'trained, conditioned and servile' line, though. We simply adjust our behaviour, as we must, in order to get by as best we can in a world that is forever being changed in unforeseeable ways by the things we create. But then again, I don't buy conspiracy theories.

As William Gibson said, the street finds its own uses for things.

Howdy Kantzveldt

A very interesting idea

A few comments to all the posters

I would see us going from from collective to individual and the not the opposite but at the same time creating the idea or concept of a devotion or duty to a larger body than family, ie a clan and ultimately a 'village'. This may seem counter-intuitive but I believe we developed individualism at the same time we developed a commitment to a larger political organization.

reply to post by Hanslune




Hi Hanslune, yes i find these considerations very intriguing, which is why the totem of Gobekli Tepe also particularly interested me, with it's astonishing depiction of mothers giving birth whilst being born themselves, that would be a highly efficient 'Neolithic breeding programme'....

I would think it may have come down to what people do to day in hunter-gather groups, they tend to marry the person their parents arrange for them to marry. This is usually done with some associate of the family or a 1st or 2nd cousin. Not so much to improve the bloodline but to protect family wealth and to also protect the woman.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


I've been thinking about this sort of thing since seeing a telly programme about a megalithic structure in the Orkneys. This "temple complex" was contemporary with Stonehenge in England and Carnac in France, and others across Europe and the Middle East and beyond.
The structure in the Orkneys was roofed and seemed to have one entrance and two exits. So, I think there was a choice to be made, either by 'priests' or by the people processing through the structure - and there were many thousands of them gathered at the same time.
I think there was a selective breeding program going on all across the continent.

This led me to re-reading "The Development of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes (1975, I think) - you must read it!

I'm sure that what they were selecting for, at least by the time the whole process got organised and widespread, was modern consciousness.
That's what Inana brought back. That's what Prometheus stole from the gods.

The timeline is important.

reply to post by TaoZero5



Yes i've actually thought the same thing when i've seen the layout of the Orkneys complex, and i thought it was just me...


I'll try and get a read of what you suggest...thanks.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Despite the first paper you posted in the OP, there is no proof whatsoever that selective breeding of humans preceded that of animals.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Anyway, the OP has laid out a good case which cannot be disimssed out of hand.

Thanks OP for another great thought provoking thread.

Originally posted by Hanslune
I would think it may have come down to what people do to day in hunter-gather groups, they tend to marry the person their parents arrange for them to marry. This is usually done with some associate of the family or a 1st or 2nd cousin. Not so much to improve the bloodline but to protect family wealth and to also protect the woman.

Money and wealth are more recent developments in human history, even in some societies today individual wealth is a foreign concept; certainly the further back you go shared community property was the prevailing economic reality.

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE

Originally posted by Hanslune
I would think it may have come down to what people do to day in hunter-gather groups, they tend to marry the person their parents arrange for them to marry. This is usually done with some associate of the family or a 1st or 2nd cousin. Not so much to improve the bloodline but to protect family wealth and to also protect the woman.

Money and wealth are more recent developments in human history, even in some societies today individual wealth is a foreign concept; certainly the further back you go shared community property was the prevailing economic reality.

Yep communal property or 'no one owns it' was much more prevalent in the past. But many nomadic groups had a sense of 'hunting grounds', taboo areas and territorial limits which a stranger violated with caution.