The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Personally I don't know what your goal is -- are you trying to find out the truth to the UFO enigma in relation to the CIA disinfo?

You're about to find out. Mebbe you should listen a little more.

And: I made my point quite well on what I meant. Read it again. Peace.

The Aviary: SOLVED.

(No EBE's were harmed in this production. Strawberry Ice-Meme will be served after the Show.)

What's all this Meme bidness, GUT, I hear some of you ask? Take a close look below. It's the publication that Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green mother-hen'd into existence. There's more and better evidence, but if I do collate it, it will be piecemeal.

I'm basically done for the moment on this aspect. I've done a much poorer job than I intended to, but I present this as a gift to my brother's and sisters at ATS and the world. The document below gets heavier, and things become ever clearer. To collate, explain, and define some of the technical terms to really start to flesh it out probably deserves a better mind than myself. I'm also hoping some other researcher will run with the ball.

After I take a break and have some fun discussing the possibilities of interdimensional entities with fullotusqigong or some such, I will take the time to collate the better questions I've already asked and the revealing one's I haven't yet. They truly, to me, lead irrevocably to the final conclusion of what lies behind The Aviary.

I'm going to co-opt a famous piece of ufological lore and set the solution to the enigma within it. I'm not saying the genesis of the greatest psycho-social experiment to ever be SOLD had it's Genesis at the Core Story, but then again...

Kit Green, Pat Price, and Hal Puthoff (Sorry Jacques!)

Three friends met at a Denny's one day to discuss their observations and suspicions of what might lay behind the UFO phenomenon: Hal Puthoff, Jacques Vallee, and Kit Green. A brilliant and lovable group of guys dressed, for the most part, in the rather eccentric and goofy style of the 70's.

They discussed a few rumors they had heard and then their scientific mind turned towards the question itself. Jacques saw in the phenomenon a control system that could be tampered with experimentally. Hal ran with the ball and managed to come off rather smartly himself. Kit got a funny feeling when pondering Jacques theory. It wouldn't take full root for a few years to come, yet there was that tingle. They had some flap-jacks and lightened up and made a few cute jokes among themselves as they ogled the attractive waitress.

Flash Forward. Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green is now a man with heavy responsibility. He's tasked with coming up with innovative ways to insure our nation's superiority. One of the objectives he and his bosses have identified as a worthy goal is being able to predict and influence the behaviors of not just individuals, but groups as well.

From the Document: Dr. Green is a current member of the National Research Council’s Standing Committee on Technology Insight—Gauge, Evaluate, and Review (TIGER).

in developing the methodology, the committee considered the end user (analysts and predictors of the behaviors of individuals and groups), the data available to them, the desired output, and the unique aspects (if relevant) of neuroscience research. Intelligence analysts were available for consultation throughout the project in order to ensure that the methodology was realistically applied, given the limitations of the data sets.

It's a daunting task but Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green is an uber-brilliant man surrounded by the best of the best. But HOW to accomplish such a complex demand. Just then a cute secretary walks in by the name of Jenny. Kit's mind goes, for some odd neurophysiological reason as mind's are sometimes want to do, back to that day long ago at Denny's when he and Jacques and Hal were ogling that cute waitress and then…Bingo…or ZaaaaP as synapses are apt to do when they've been stimulated by electro-impulses.

Kit remembers Jacques talk of testing control systems. He thinks of UFOs. ZAAAAP, he thinks that a marginal & enthusiastic bunch of UFO enthusiasts, prone to forming "communities" would be a perfect--aaaand fairly ethical way of testing the complex set of modalities that such a project would require.

(Continued...)

...Kit Green's uber-brilliant mind realizes that to be successful such an experiment would require a wide range of sociological experience, hard science, behavioral science, neurophysiology, the understanding of human informational processing systems, philosophy even, and mathematics--his mind was speeding now--linguistics (he became at that moment the inventor of the modern meme, but the idea wouldn't sink in until later)…shew…almost out of breath from excitement and intellectual stimulation he sputtered out a last modality…"social influence."

The label “cognitive” in the title and elsewhere in this report is used in the broad sense. Unless otherwise noted, it refers to the cognitive sciences in general and comprises psychological and physiological processes underlying human information processing, emotion, motivation, social influence, and development. It includes contributions from all directly related disciplines, including the behavioral and social sciences, neurogenetics, proteomics, philosophy, mathematics, computer science, and linguistics. The label “neuroscience” is also used in the broad sense (unless specified otherwise)

Things didn't happen over night mind you. This was BIG. But one day, in a very quiet whisper, one man in-tha-know, and not unfamiliar with the tactical lie, whispered to an unsuspecting but genial gent of the ufological persuasion, "The government is hiding an extraterrestrial being, ALIVE, retrieved from a crashed saucer."

...Other questions raised by controlling the mind: How can we make people trust us more? What if we could help the brain to remove fear or pain? Is there a way to make the enemy obey our commands?

...There is little doubt that great progress has been made over the last quarter century, particularly the last 10 to 15 years, in understanding the physiological and neural bases for psychological processes and behavior. Furthermore, there is a high likelihood that more progress will be made as more sophisticated theoretical models are developed and tested using ever more sophisticated assessment technology.

And now, dear brothers and sisters you have the key that makes all the lies make sense. It explains why everyone involved in the confusing drama has ties to the intelligence agencies. It explains why no one was ever punished. It explains why the power of the meme was so compelling.

You and I are an elaborate experiment in how to control and manipulate large communities of people. We were lied to in the name of national security, but we weren't zapped at least. Well, maybe some of us were, but that's the next chapter on our next enigmatic bird.

Sleep tight. And that's what Memes are made of.

National Research Council’s Standing Committee on Technology Insight—Gauge, Evaluate, and Review (TIGER)

reply to post by The GUT


Wow. That's pretty upsetting.

What sort of ethical backflips were pulled off in order to quash the discomfort resulting from treating a group of unwitting humans like guinea pigs?

Originally posted by Eidolon23
reply to post by The GUT

 

Wow. That's pretty upsetting.

What sort of ethical backflips were pulled off in order to quash the discomfort resulting from treating a group of unwitting humans like guinea pigs?

Yeah, I have some stuff about the challenges faced when addressing ethics, especially after MK, but hey, at least they didn't slip us a hypno-coctail and the tongue or sumpin"

reply to post by The GUT


You know, Brother GUT, I was instantly given to wonder if there might not be other, non-UFO related test groups. I then recalled this, and my extremities are still tingling a little. Courtesy of our very own Master of Puppets (maybe):

"Stories exert a powerful influence on human thoughts and behavior. They consolidate memory, shape emotions, cue heuristics and biases in judgment, influence in-group/out-group distinctions, and may affect the fundamental contents of personal identity..."

Victor Dix was one of my Merc School grads, later went on to a long career with various agencies including CIA and DIA. In private life, he fell into working security for Warner Bothers and consulting with various TV programs including "The Unit".

His latest included personnel security for Warners Leavesden and the Harry Potter movie series. he has many times talked about the interest that DoD and similar has had in the influence of the HP septology and adaptions in particular the affect of them on the under 40 mindset in accepting the premises of parallel worlds and unseen but known happenings in those worlds.

Dix claims that the interest is UFO and alien based.

Yes, UFO-based. As in, "We've had great success w/ the UFO rigamarole, let's see if we can't branch out into popular fiction (and a larger test group)."

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do please note that in all probability, Dix's persona is co-opted by Camper and his associates(?) if you decide to run a search.

Anyway, there's more:

I received just a touch of this in my MkUltra training, this concept DARPA is studying in StorYnet. There is a fine psyoperational line between fantasy, fairy tales and sci-fi.

As I remember, the relationship the human mind makes with concepts that generate more consciousness activity, that better relate consciousness with our physical medium, the greater the psyoperational impact (and remembering). Apparently, in some, a majority or minority I don't know, but in many there is greater effect from Harry Potter like fantasy although by literal definition, HP is neither fantasy, fairy tale or sci-fi.

This "none of the above but parts of each" that Harry Potter truly is, is what Dix referred to as the "vital combination, the acid drip" of mind penetration. Interesting stuff.

Concerning the UFO/alien issue, the way that Victor Dix explained this phenomena is that the interest of the acceptance of worlds (Wizards) that cohabit with us commoners (Muggles) - yet this cohabitation is scene as something of a snapshot of short term activities (like UFOs, like Wizards) - is of great interest since, as I am sure you can now relate, is very much like the UFO-human interaction.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am beginning to think that Camper delights in causing his former employers headaches. I am beginning to think that the sock puppet campaign wasn't an attempt to bury or obscure the thread, but to draw attention to it. Huh.

reply to post by The GUT

(No EBE's were harmed in this production. Strawberry Ice-Meme will be served after the Show.)

Unsurprisingly, the first use of this phrase/term EBE/EBEN/Extraterrestrial biological entity arose from within this apparent group. The first indirect mention I can think of was from Doty speaking to LMH around the early 1980s. In writing it first appeared in the MJ-12 documents and. to me, has become a fingerprint of the myth-makers.

It has the ring of scientific terminology and no doubt was expected to conjure up images of white lab coats and serious looking scientists. It sorta does, but in a different way

Even in the early days, Doty's *sources* were pushing the story of Roswell bodies and Holloman landings for treaties - all later content for MJ-12. If you haven't run down some Bob Emenegger, it's worth a punt. You could describe him as an early myth-maker (1970s) and with all the right alleged connections. He claimed to be a CIA asset and spoke of being approached to publicise the Holoman AFB alien treaty. It demonstrates some longevity in the extent of using the alien meme for purposes unknown to us.

For example, *if* any of the core story was true, would it be left to a diverse group of conflicting people to come up with a way forward? Would it be in any way likely that such knowledge would fall into the hands of this dozen or so US males? So many nations, so many people and here it all is - a few good men just doing their best to release the truth in the most jaw-droppingly self-defeating way they can manage.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
I am beginning to think that Camper delights in causing his former employers headaches. I am beginning to think that the sock puppet campaign wasn't an attempt to bury or obscure the thread, but to draw attention to it. Huh.

edit on 5-9-2012 by Eidolon23 because: (no reason given)

Sister Eidolon, your theorem is sound, it reminds me of what famous ancestor said: When lies start to make sense, truth is just around the corner.

Knowing the Skanklin like we do, we knew there was an objective and pattern that suggested purpose beyond the freak show. Confusical it was.

You may have whacked that mole down indeed.

Darling, your brilliance is showing.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
If you haven't run down some Bob Emenegger, it's worth a punt. You could describe him as an early myth-maker (1970s) and with all the right alleged connections. He claimed to be a CIA asset and spoke of being approached to publicise the Holoman AFB alien treaty.

I'm fairly familiar with Emenegger, but I hadn't thought of that. Solid.

What it makes me wonder is, since we do know that the old school spooks back in tha' day were known to use the phenomenon as a cover story for top secret tech, if they made observations and inroads that allowed the young shining lights to co-opt the lessons and techniques of those meme-pioneers?

reply to post by The GUT
Chase down a Greg Bishop interview with Emenegger and one with Angelia Joiner. There's another with Col Bob Friend (Blue Book) ,where Emenegger comes up, that you'll find interesting.

We're looking at mid-70s and seminal in the appearance of aliens. Ingo Swann, Targ, Geller, Puthoff etc.

Before I go to bed, I wanted to say that I've come to peace with my feelings about Dr. Christopher Canfield Green. While I will always have some concern about the ethics of such a program, I do understand that he's an honorable man working within the intelligence apparatus and as such bound to keep the secret.

It explains why, even though I don't know him, and even though I was determined to dig through the obfuscation, I continued to feel an affection and respect for him.

When you can feel such things at a distance, it says something very profound about us as human beings and especially about the person one feels the affection for.

It also explains why I continued to feel the same for Springer in spite of the suspicion that he might be a mind-control victim.

In anticipation that the one or two people that have stuck around might have some questions, here's the quick--though not complete version--of the line of thinking that lead to my personal--but firmly held--conclusions.

Why was Kit obfuscating?

Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green would never embarrass his service record or his long-proven allegiance.

Kit wasn't the type to lie for petty purposes. He's obviously a man of honor, even if we might perceive--and rightly so--that the experiment contained some psychological cruelty.

A Top Secret obligation from Kit is not only Occam's, it fits ALL the evidence squeaky tight in why he was disingenuous at times.

The Memes were powerful, they penetrated to a fair depth in our society. Even after they were largely debunked, they had some staying power. That was unlikely to be by chance and strongly suggested structuring by psychological adepts of great understanding and education. Not Doty and Collins I was pretty sure.

The MJ-12 papers were exceptional as far as forgeries go--they blew poor ol' Stanton's mind--and suggested budget and intelligence skill.

All the key players were intelligence pros. No one got into any real trouble as a result of the scams. Doty had to take some heat, but that's what junior operatives do in a compromised operation. Although Kit refused to totally sell him down the river, partly for security reasons, but obviously, I think, out of loyalty too.

An operational and somewhat revealing mistake, that, but very human and there ain't nothing wrong with that. That's how I roll, too, and the main reason I didn't want to start a dialogue with Kit personally, as I didn't want to be swayed and let my peeps here at ATS down nor the ufological community as a whole.

Digging into the exact types of sciences that Dr. Green was involved in paints the picture in vivid colors.

Good Night, Y'all.

Originally posted by The GUT
Kit wasn't the type to lie for petty purposes.

That's a rather loaded comment! It's a bit like the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?". Where has Kit Green been shown to have lied at all?

One of the many problems about comments regarding members of the Aviary is that the conclusions reached are often based on a particular view of the facts, without clearly stating those facts.

This is one of the reasons why I've been reluctant to post any comments in this thread (as opposed to merely posting references to relevant discussions/books etc) because it would be very time consuming to set out all the facts upon which my comments would be based. That's not to mention the need to raise queries to fill in gaps in those facts. Some of those queries could be addressed by a few other researchers that have covered some of this ground before (and I've seen references to some material/resources that haven't been published in full that would shed more light on some of these issues), but others would have to be put to relevant members of the Aviary.

Other problems include the fact that in discussions of (and by) members of the Aviarythat it isn't always clear when people are being serious and when they are simply joking...

This might seem a tad off topic however it does relate to what we are talking about and to some extent, serves to illustrate how the "meme" thing can work.

I've mentioned the "MAFF" scam a couple of times on threads, with regards to how the intelligence services work so thought I'd catalogue the complete story as I know it from the person who started it all.

I will call the guy "Paul" one because, in the "new age traveller" world many went by nicknames and also because I have no wish to actually name the guy in public. Paul was, however, your archetypal "new age traveller" to look at. Matted dreads, old combat trouser, combat boots, and an old jumper were his typical mode of attire and this of course attracted attention from the law like a magnet. Paul was also typical of many travellers in that, he came from "nice family" and was, if anything, almost ferociously over educated and bright with it. A bequest from a dead relative saw him able to purchase a small holding in a part of Cornwall England, that was surrounded by the sort of middle class types who found his introduction to the area anything bar comfortable. Givne his appearance, almost everyone assumed he therefore must smoke pot, at the very least and that his life consisted of any number of unspeakable activities abhorrent to "nice folk".

The truth was, Paul didn't take drugs of any sort, recreational or medicinal and he used his small holding to grow all sorts of forgotten crop plants and was actually, more interested in reintroducing old strains of modern crop plants than partying 24/7. However, his appearance made him a target for the police almost, on a daily basis and they would take great delight in searching him for drugs in the high street of the local major town. Yes, it bothered him however he bore the brunt of it with a good humour and just carried on with his life.

That was until the day, his farm is raided after an "anonymous tip off" he was growing cannabis there. Of course, he wasn't however he spent nearly 24 hours in custody as the local law went through his farm with a fine tooth comb. It was during this period when he was being questioned, for some 10 hours, that he extracted his revenge.

During the course of the interrogation he was asked all sorts of idiot questions as the law was totally convinced that, the new age travellers, as a group, held some serious political agenda which they were seeking to expand upon and somehow "destroy the very fabric of society". The first thing this illustrates is this, when you hear members of the establishment pouring scorn on conspiracies the truth is, they are a hell of lot more paranoid than many so called conspiracy nuts. The level of paranoia about the whole new traveller thing in Britain, from the authorities was utterly ridiculous and some of the stuff they quizzed Paul about that day, would make many on here wonder quite who the nut jobs really are. Any way Paul just saw his chance and being and very savvy dude he suddenly makes some comment about an organisation called "MAFF".

To further establish his credentials he then does the whole "Bugger I shouldn't have said that"; routine and refuses to even discuss it further save for him to say to his interrogators "Oh you don't want to mess with them they really do have people everywhere and they are working behind the scenes and that MAFF stood for "Medievalist Agrarian Freedom Fighters" in honour of the Watt Tyler rebellion". It was all utter cobblers, he made the whole lot up cos he was, bored and frankly sick of people assuming cos he looked like A he was therefore B.

Within six months, police as far as a couple of hundred miles, away were questioning other new age travellers about "MAFF" and making out they knew what it was about and that they would "crack down on it". As Paul told his story to others "MAFF" became a standing joke and other travellers would embellish the tale and add their own twist with tales of dark ceremonies, high ranking connections, in effect, everything the intelligence communities wanted to hear as they had already bought into the whole thing 100%.

It would seem, that's exactly what has been going on here, with these various shadowy groups. The trick being that, you only really need one person saying the "right" thing to the "right" people at the "right" time and they then take on a life all of their own because of the "belief system" of those who hear it. The only real trick to it all is, to make sure you pant the original "seed" in fertile ground and it often, pretty much, looks after itself. It actually just a form of marketing .

The thing is, it works, we're all here and now, talking about "mid control" and "micro waves" placing voices in out heads and the truth is, there is actually less evidence to support anyone has managed it, in any genuine sense of the word, than there is that, UFOs are nut and bolts craft piloted by an unknown intelligence.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
That's a rather loaded comment! It's a bit like the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?". Where has Kit Green been shown to have lied at all?

No, I don't consider my conclusions a bit like a logical fallacy. Having said that, anyone waiting for hard copy documentation of the operation I mention, or the perfected neurophysiological lie detecting technology that Kit references in a few different papers and then waits for Kit to come sit in it for you will probably have to "wonder" at the mystery their whole life.

I prefer to use the word obfuscation, but I did use the word "lie" in that case. My example here, but it's certainly not the only example, was Dr. Green's interview with Ryan Dube. Since as far as I can see that Dube and Green have remained friendly and I find no instance of Dr. Green suing or filing complaint against that interview, and, further, finding it consistent about what is known and related about Green and Doty's relationship elsewhere; then Yes, I am totally comfortable and confident there's ample evidence of rather telling obfuscation therein.

One of the many problems about comments regarding members of the Aviary is that the conclusions reached are often based on a particular view of the facts, without clearly stating those facts.

The name Aviary is a shame really. I have no opinion or concern with many of the so-called members and their true relation to what I feel are the events the Aviary was constructed around which is mainly MJ-12.

I believe I've presented many facts here, although as I mentioned above if you're waiting for hard copies stamped "Aviary" that's one day going show up in your mailbox you'll probably never have a conclusion. Although, knowing these guys it would be suspect if it did.

Other problems include the fact that in discussions of (and by) members of the Aviarythat it isn't always clear when people are being serious and when they are simply joking...

Well, I find neither MJ-12 nor Serpo funny, and I certainly don't find Dr. Green naive enough to have bought them either. The world of operational intelligence often itself relies on interpretation of information, some have no skill for it, some do, it's a valid tool, it's not 100%, but in the world of spooks...it's sometimes all you've got.

reply to post by FireMoon

and "micro waves" placing voices in out heads and the truth is, there is actually less evidence to support anyone has managed it, in any genuine sense of the word, than there is that, UFOs are nut and bolts craft piloted by an unknown intelligence.

Thank you for that, and a great story analogy as well. Common sense is needed, and by-the-way, basic human courtesy as well. I mean, yall (not you) are downright mean to some folk here, just because they digress, and then you go and call it thread derailment, and that the mysterious forces of Camper are behind it, to, devalue, the thread, no wait, bring attention to the thread. Don't you know that when you humiliate people they get vindictive? The paranoia, lack of empathy, sensitivity, humanity, courtesy, common sense, also manipulation, two facedness and lieing I have experienced first hand from ufo buffs, I don't care if you call yourself a Christian or scientific or athiest, dims that which allegedly supposedly comes from spook-ies.

Originally posted by FireMoon
The thing is, it works, we're all here and now, talking about "mid control" and "micro waves" placing voices in out heads and the truth is, there is actually less evidence to support anyone has managed it, in any genuine sense of the word, than there is that, UFOs are nut and bolts craft piloted by an unknown intelligence

I wouldn't say that at all. There's certainly more evidence for voice to skull technology than nuts & bolt UFOS. It has been demonstrated actually. And we know there have been victims of mind-control because we know MK-Ultra and related projects are real.

And while mind-control and microwaves have been mentioned in this thread, the only kind that might be applicable to my thesis of what MJ-12 and Serpo were about is the same kind that "Paul" produced in your story.

He presented a meme into the system and it blossomed.

Originally posted by specialcategory
the mysterious forces of Camper are behind it, to, devalue, the thread, no wait, bring attention to the thread. Don't you know that when you humiliate people they get vindictive? The paranoia, lack of empathy, sensitivity, humanity, courtesy, common sense, also manipulation, two facedness and lieing I have experienced first hand from ufo buffs...

Opinions are like Frankle Campers, special-c, everybunny has to suffer one....or dozens.

Thanks for weighing in. Again.

reply to post by The GUT


There's a fact about the '___' experiments that is not widely publicised. Whilst the odd person did "freak out" they rarely mention that the following happened. That was 40 % of those tested said.... "Woooooooooo I'd volunteer to do it again". In so many ways MKUltra was one of the most spectacular "own goals" ever. rather than compliance MKUltra actually led directly to the 60s explosion and the "counter culture".

Sound is my thing and whilst I can see how it might be feasible to project "sound" into the brain I'm still trying to work out how you do that and bypass the the ears. I'd like to see some genuine science that explains how it manages to be "heard". The old one about people's fillings picking up radio transmissions works because the mouth provides an acoustic chamber to amplify the sound. The brain is not really built to do the same job I really would love to know the actual mechanics of how that one works before making any decision on it. As it stands, it sounds (sic) fascinating as a possibility however, I'm still totally unclear as to the "scientific method" of it.

Originally posted by FireMoon
Sound is my thing and whilst I can see how it might be feasible to project "sound" into the brain I'm still trying to work out how you do that and bypass the the ears. I'd like to see some genuine science that explains how it manages to be "heard"..As it stands, it sounds (sic) fascinating as a possibility however, I'm still totally unclear as to the "scientific method" of it.

Here ya go. A article from Wired Magazine's Danger Room.



Federation of American Scientists:
Nonlethal weapon which includes (1) a neuro-electromagnetic device which uses microwave transmission of sound into the skull of persons or animals by way of pulse-modulated microwave radiation; and (2) a silent sound device which can transmit sound into the skull of person or animals. NOTE: The sound modulation may be voice or audio subliminal messages. One application of V2K is use as an electronic scarecrow to frighten birds in the vicinity of airports.
www.wired.com...

Ahh they use that at Bus Stops in Britain where it transmits a tone that most people, over he age of 15-18 can't hear as it's too high. Its used to stop gangs of kids hanging around in certain public places where others feel intimidated by the presence.


That diagram is utter hooey though, scientifically, it works because you ears can hear it It is not transmitted direct to the brain that's is just moonshine. That's a classic example of someone seeing 2 and 2 and reaching 6

Me singing at 15khz

Added this for clarity, this is actually not as band limited as the signal in that diagram. his is a human voice where I have shelved everything bar 15khz from it. The signal in the diagram is nothing but 15khz whereas even with sophisticated software I cannot remove everything around the 15 Khz however, this is what a human voice sounds like when "transmitted" as in the diagram.