Americans shot in Mexico were CIA operatives

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm sure they were given a somewhat decent sum of cash.

THE mexican newspaper REPORTE INDIGO,is an independent one that has receive the report that wanst only the cartels shooting at the car there also some other people shouting orders along with federales,apparently was something that nobody knew what theyre were shooting at.One thing they knew,the vehicle was armored,and only when that armour start weakening they stop shooting,seems like one of those self-inflicted wounds just to appear like the victims from cartels,so the future interventions are justificable.Non of the agents die this time....

When is the government going to stop pouring funds into this black hole of the war on drugs? Just legalize and regulate the stuff for pete's sake, and squash the 2000% profit margins of the cartels, while at the same time VASTLY increasing revenue to the state...Money that could benefit so many people. I just don't see what the big deal is. The benefits far outweigh the risks. There aren't going to be that many people who do drugs only because they are legal. That is stupid.

Those who are going to use them will do so regardless of whether they are legal or illegal. So why not legalize them, clear out our prisons, make a lot of money, save a lot of money, save thousands of lives per year, etc...The benefits are enormous.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


I think it has a lot to do with a lack of understanding. There are many who do not understand those that do not fit into the square mold of society. Based on this lack of understanding there is a fear, commonly referred to as the fear of the unknown.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
When is the government going to stop pouring funds into this black hole of the war on drugs?

...clear out our prisons, make a lot of money, save a lot of money, save thousands of lives per year, etc...The benefits are enormous.

That would make so much sense. However, it is not just a few "Mexican cartels" or some inner-city street kids making a buck off the trade. The rabbit hole on this one is so deep it goes all the way to the top. Its global revenues, unregulated and undocumented, are in the trillions of $$$. Legalization would cure many, or most, societal ills but that just cannot be allowed to happen.

To abruptly stop this trade with the wave of a wand of legislation would destabilize global economics in an instant. the only way to stop the insanity would require a SHTF scenario. Illicit drugs would be nearly a valueless commodity in an open market. To maintain the prices and profits being made requires global cooperation. No one nation can be allowed to toss away drug prohibition, it would be considered a threat to national or global security. It would prompt an act of war. Despite limited decriminalization, no country has ever been permitted to normalize these substances.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

Although its capital is notorious among stoners and college kids for marijuana haze–filled "coffee shops," Holland has never actually legalized cannabis — the Dutch simply don't enforce their laws against the shops. The correct answer is Portugal, which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, coc aine, heroin and methamphetamine.

www.time.com...

"It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

reply to post by Symbiot


en.wikipedia.org...

The drug policy of Portugal was put in place in 2000, to be legally effective from July 2001. The new law maintained the status of illegality for using or possessing any drug for personal use without authorization. However, the offense was changed from a criminal one, with prison a possible punishment, to an administrative one if the amount possessed was no more than ten days' supply of that substance.

Still not legal but they've come a long way to approach sanity. It has remedied many of their societal ills to treat it administratively, however it is still a long way off from normalization/legalization. Seems to be a sticky problem with global greedys, erm... treaties.

In Portugal, recreational use of cannabis is forbidden by law; also the medicinal use is not yet officially recognized (there are a debate and some law projects in the Portuguese Parliament). Portugal signed all the UN conventions on narcotics and psychotropic to date. With the 2001 decriminalization bill, the consumer is now regarded as a patient and not as a criminal (having the amount usually used for ten days of personal use is not a punishible crime) but repression persists. One can be sent to a dissuasion committee and have a talk or must pay a fee.

The cultivation of cannabis, even if in very small-scale home grow for personal use only, can legally be prosecuted. However, an unknown number of enthusiasts of small-scale home growing, grow the plants with a high degree of secrecy due to the legal punishment they could face if persecuted and due to potential social stigma as well.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


It's definitely a long way from freedom, but it's a sign of opening minds I think. Apparently if caught carrying drugs one is given the option to addend free drug therapy, if the subject opts out they are free to go. I don't know for sure, but they probably still confiscate whatever they caught you with.

Update link here......in.reuters.com...
\Its Reuters so may be biased and inaccurate....enjoy

Flash back to: United States Invasion of Panama, code-named Operation Just Cause
When George H.W.Bush had to turn on his ol' buddy from their CIA days, General Noriega.

The U.S. went in on the premiss that the coc aine traffic had to be stopped.
The traffic tripled within a years time.

War on Drugs. Ha !!

Nothing really changes. It's the same old song and dance

"It's all the same ef*in# day man"- Janis Joplin -

I got a reply from my friend.

One of the things that he told me is that there is a lot of fear amongst the Mexican populace. Most are like you and I, just wanting to have the freedoms to work and live their lives peacefully. He told me that there are many aspects to the situation in his country now. The country is captive to the daily violence and disrespect of basic rights. And because all of this is fueled with millions of dollars and arms (Fast and Furious and other ops, probably some that we don't even know about and most agree aren't good ideas), due to evil and corruption on both sides of the border, there is no end in sight. "A Country that has tons of good and working people, loving and enigmatic places... and we just cannot find the day peace is settle back again."

He likens Calderon's policy of frontal assault on the cartels (which he states has strengthened the cartels and mafia instead of weakening them) to a person hitting a wasp's nest with a short stick.

He says that there are many instances that the people are not told about or followed up on in the media. He states that they have been told that this was the Federales doing the shooting, but also acknowleges that counterfeit/pirated "official" vehicles/uniforms are available on the black market and that it could be cartel or mafia instead of police. He states that not being told what is going on adds to the alarm and confusion. They only state that the Mexican Army and Navy are fighting the war against the cartels. It appears that our agencies being involved is kept secret from the populace. He said most of the populace hopes that our agencies are helping the Mexican government in ending the violence. The people that have been educated at private schools and universities are knowlegeable about the past history of the CIA and it's involvement in Central and South America. They watch since Tlatelolco incident in 1968 and acknowlege the Cartels associations with guerillas in central america since the 1960s. He states that "Somehow, Mafias or Cartels from the U.S., Mexico and Central America, had joined forces."

One of the other issues is the political environment. The PRI ruled Mexico for 70 years and are now returning to power. He states "The PRI party, has a lot to do with all these, because it is impossible for a party who has been just for 12 years (PAN) to create all this in this time span. It's known that the PRI supported all this through many years, and hide it." It is rumored that the President Elect, Pena Nieto, killed his wife. He told me that Nieto has a lot of skeletons in his closet. "There had been examples of good governors who had done their best to keep things as good as possible. the truth is that the governors with a PRI background, are always discovered doing all kinds of things, except the good ones they should be fulfilling and acomplishing". He said also, "We don't trust in Pena Nieto a thing. He wasn't the favorite candidate of the masses, Lopez Obrador was. Respect to people choice is far away from being a realistic thing....since things tend to be arranged and fixed with money."

Another is the mismanagement of the Mexican economy. He told me that the Peso has devalued by 600% over recent years and inflation is bad. He gave the example of a kilo of egg 2 months ago was about $1.30 usd and is now around $3.75.

I asked him if the populace was taking up arms for personal protection. He told me 2 things.
1) "Most of us do not trust in the police, it's people who aren't well prepared, and this is just another plan by our goverments to keep their salaries as low as possible...so the only thing they had done is to "factorize" a nest for more corruption. Unprepared and people without the right academic preparation are too fragile and easy to bribe."
2) "Most of us the people just keep our eyes wide open, and we do not have permit to carry guns with us. I prefer things being that way, because of the huge number of people that aren't well educated or weren't raised in a good embiroment, all things could turn into massacre if the government were giving us the "right" to have guns."

One of his final comments to me was: "We are a nation who also need to wake-up, and stop being a "sure thing" for all the things the governors decide to do to us. If we wake up and stop buying any product that the government dares to duplicate or triplicate, then the power will be ours. But if we continue with this "Oh, that how things are, and we can't do anything about it" type of thinking...they'll do with us whatever they like."

I thanked him for a different prospective on this. Funny, it seems that his country is a lot like my country.

reply to post by pwndnewb


There are a few thing I can agree and disagree with your friend about. We are fighting the Drug War for the benefit of the US as Mexico really doesn't have a large problem with drug use - the price of drugs in the US is much higher and for that reason its problems are amplified and much greater. And, yes, the tactic our US "advisors" here have us using are creating greater problems - as it seems to be its intent to do, or the alternative reason would be that the approach to Drug War here is just completely stupid and ineffective to do anything but create a bigger problem. It IS much the same as swatting at a hornet's nest with a short stick. In my city, however, daily affairs seem to be much undisturbed by the Drug War and cartels, the people are hardly aware of it outside media reporting, and it really does little to touch our lives here in the central highland - I live in a large city located about halfway between Guadalajara and Mexico City.

Prices do continue climbing and perhaps have greater regional variances than I would have guessed. Just after reading your post I asked at the corner market the price of eggs. The told me 32 pesos a kilo which comes out just under $2.45 - a kilo of eggs, 2.2 lbs., is about 15-18 eggs depending on size.

True about the Mexican elections here in that everyone I spoke to favored Andrés Manuel López Obrador over Enrique Pena Nieto yet he managed to get elected.

I am not in favor of gun-control in the US, nor here in Mexico either, but I feel just as well as your friend some relief that people here are not generally allowed to carry weapons. I can appreciate people being armed in their homes, but in the US as well I am uncomfortable with people wanting to show and demonstrate their new weapons for me - please, I don't need to see them, not that close and personal anyway.

My perspective. Thanks for your post. Star.

Daniel Hopsicker blows the lid on the CIA shot -- they were drug dealers.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Daniel Hopsicker blows the lid on the CIA shot -- they were drug dealers.

Surprise! Surprise! Who'da thunk it? CIA down here smuggling drugs. Say it isn't so!

What has remained undisclosed —until now —is ths: one of the agents is linked to the drug trafficking operation out of St Petersburg Florida in which two CIA-connected airplanes were seized—in separate incidents in 2006 and 2007—on Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula carrying a total of ten tons of coc aine.

What intelligence circles call “sloppy tradecraft” was one of the hallmarks of the rendition-linked drug trafficking operation, which escaped becoming a major scandal in the US only through the efforts (or non-efforts, or collusion) of America’s major media.

For example, one of the CIA planes frequently used in the rendition operation, a Gulfstream II (registration number N987SA) did double duty running drugs. It crashed with maximum publicity in the Yucatan in September of 2007, splitting apart and spilling 3.7 tons of coc aine across a rural area 30 miles from Merida, the Yucatan State capital.

Even worse, the downed CIA drug plane shared interlocking ownership with a second American-registered plane from St Petersburg, FL, a DC-9, that had also made headlines in Mexico when it too was busted on the Yucatan Peninsula carrying a massive 5.5 tons of coc aine.

Yep. The CIA is down here "training" our police. Only the US government must think Mexican police police are not corrupt enough already. Amazing to me that Americans feel corruption in the US is a rare thing. If they just had a real "press" instead of merely a massive public relations tool in the United States. Any that print or report the actual news are labelled alternative press. Yes, it would be a nice alternative for a change.

Is that 3.7 tons of coc aine down in Mérida part of that famous initiative we hear so much about? I remember when "a chicken in every pot" was a famous slogan, now for the CIA it is "a line on every mirror"?? Forget about the pot, these guys here are into running the hard drugs.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Yeah when Al Gore was Vice President - I confronted him for half hour in the basement of a veterans building -- when he was running for president. He had a dozen secret service with him.

I said to Al -- we were five feet apart and I had a dozen activists with me and we had Al on the defensive for half an hour. I asked most of the questions to him.

I said to Al -- "Everyone knows the CIA is complicit in the drug trade."

Al gave me this nervous look back and his secret service got real fidgety. At the end of the night -- I yelled to Al across from the banquet room -- "The blood of the U'wa is on your conscience!" This was in 2000 -- there were helicopters flying in the parking lot as Al left.

On the way home the cop pulled my car over. He asked for my license. I didn't say a word. He went back to his car. He then came back, returned my license and said: Thanks. That was it - never said why he pulled me over but I think it was obvious to both of us.

haha. I got all the details online if you want but otherwise it might be off thread topic -- basically about Oil and human rights, and corporate corruption, etc.

Anyway I was in Merida when I was 14 and one of my University housemates was from Merida.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


What you just said needs to be posted on every front page, needs to be broadcast on every network, needs to be said on American Idol, pro-football games, any where that americans will actually listen to it.

The AG Eric Holder needs to come clean, the CIA, FBI, ICE and every other organization needs to shout "Illegal drugs are controlled by the american legal teams, WE NEED THE MONEY!

Oil, food, healthcare, don't mean # when you can make soooooo much money on keeping illegal drugs illegal and selling them to americans.

Despite the money the "government" illegally pockets for their war games, their race-baiting, their "we want to help the middle class" crap, the government still wants our income tax dollars.

This isn't a new game, it's been going on for years.

How did Joe Kennedy make his millions? Prohibition.

The real news during the "Americans Summit" in Colombia this year, was that drugs had to be legalized to stop all of the violence. US and Canada said NO. All the americans heard was that the Secret Service was drunk and spent a lot of time with prostitutes and wouldn't pay them.

Will any polititian really be truthful with the american public?

reply to post by Happy1


Vietnam War = american gold for heroin. SOG.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

Oil, food, healthcare, don't mean # when you can make soooooo much money on keeping illegal drugs illegal and selling them to americans.

The real news during the "Americans Summit" in Colombia this year, was that drugs had to be legalized to stop all of the violence. US and Canada said NO. All the americans heard was that the Secret Service was drunk and spent a lot of time with prostitutes and wouldn't pay them.

Will any polititian really be truthful with the american public?

Plenty of politicians have been truthful about this. With the exception of Paul, Johnson, and perhaps very few others, NONE of them have been AMERICAN politicians! It is American drug policies, American forcing other governments to enforce those policies - on threat of invasion - that keep the death and violence to a fever pitch.

Our blood, insecurity, and social unrest is the small price we all are forced pay to keep their multi-trillion dollar illicit industry going. Hey, and it is a great way past our privacies and into our livingrooms, along with asset forfeiture for the local enforcers to keep them interested and playing the game too. A little something for everybody. And for us, we get to think we are doing the world a favor sacrificing our security and sovereignty to play this noble game for a good cause. Joe Six-pack would never believe the truth about this scam; our nation would never do anything like that!

The global Drug War is the most insidious, pervasive, and deviant scam plaguing our entire world at this time. Worse is that our most prized institutions are being propped-up by the blood that is sacrificed and the money that is scammed by it. To try to stop it, reform it, or even try to make sense of it is a threat to global security.

Those Secret Service guys had to carouse and cause a ruckus in Colombia. It was their duty to create a diversion away from the real news. Our nation loves a sex scandal. It is the only thing to get our minds off anything else of any importance. Individually we are noble creatures. Collectively we are pathetic.