Asking for help around here......

I'm headed to bed and I'm tired, so forgive me all if I sound downright cranky. I really am.

Over my time here I've seen many people offer themselves up to the tender mercies of the membership in asking for help on this problem, or that one. Some, intensely personal and serious. Some, outright dangerous. Some others, downright silly..and stupid. However, the person ASKING is sincere and genuinely seeking help.

Why is it then, that those threads asking for help in an emotionally vulnerable way always attract two kinds of people? Without fail. they do! There are a couple forums here that all but dedicate their topics to such matters so it's easy to find some threads to look at for examples. You have:

1. ~ Members who respond with a sincere and honest desire to help. Whether the skills match the situation and the help is accepted or politely declined is secondary to the fact there are always at least a few to offer assistance. (Well..ALMOST always. Some threads tried and died, no doubt)

2 ~ Members who seemingly feel better when others feel worse. Those threads bring this type as predictably as the first. These folks attack, harass, ridicule or just badger with inane questions, outlandish suggestions or flat off topic horse manure. Sometimes a little pinch of all of the above to make a real brew of 'Lets make a bad situation worse!'.

It's this second class of folk I simply don't understand. Perhaps someone else can help enlighten?

I can see the new people (and there are always new people...I was one once..we all were) that do this. New folks who start out this way usually aren't going to be here long, so that's easy enough to tolerate.

However, it's just as often folks who have been here a long time and will, presumably, be here much longer. After trashing someone on a help thread, do these people honestly believe it's looked upon as amusing or cute by any OTHER members who see it? How do those people think they'll be treated in their own threads and posts going forward and until the display is forgotten (If ever)?

It just seems to me, and maybe I'm too touchy at times, that when those who have the courage or need or both, to lay out whatever is at the heart of their major issue at the time.....people who have nothing but divisive and mean spirited things to say can move on. No?

ATS had a total of 1,232 new threads created in the last 7 days, as the stats I checked before posting this show. Would it kill people who have nothing nice to say to simply skip those few help threads which come up and go haunt the other 1,225 or whatever the number?

(Hops off soapbox) Thats all..I had my say. It isn't about any particular thread right now or even a specific one recently. It's about the pattern that continues and had an example quite recently to remind me just how annoying it is to see others torn down so a few can feel smug with themselves that a situation really COULD be made just a little bit worse than it needed to be otherwise.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I guess it's all about perception. I really do think of everybody on ATS as people. That means that, if a serious request for help comes around - or posts that demonstrate a person really is in need of help ( even if they don't realize it ) I tend to become highly sympathetic and try to do right by them. My karma needs all the help it can get! Sure... I get into hot debates from time to time - and I've said some hurtful things in the past... But I honestly do try to respect folks.

I think that some people lose sight of all that. To them the Internet is anonymous and names on a screen are just names on a screen. They lack empathy and discipline enough to realize that there are living, breathing people on the other end of these avatars and 'net aliases. From that POV... this is just a video game where sarcasm and "whack a troll" are just ways to pass the time.

It's sad and I wholly and fully feel your disdain for it.

At the end of the day... I actually feel sorry for the bashers too. The fact that the are so calloused always makes me wonder what happened to them that made them want to lash out at others so viciously.

Thanks Rabbit for a great and relevant rant!

~Heff

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Totally agree there mate - it was only yesterday that a genuine call for advice went out and 2/3's of the respondents decided the best advice was to take the piss - some ATS members definitely need to clean their act up or simply move on......

Please help.....

Had it been posted in the correct forum maybe things may have been a little different but from where I stand it was irrelevant as it was an off-topic discussion. One would think ATS members were, by and large, alot better than that but wonders never cease.........

S&F

ETA: and the individual 3 posts below this one is exactly my case in point............whom just happen to post a similar comment on the aforementioned thread I mention (a true reflection of this persons own signature).

Your concern is warranted.
There is a fight happening throughout the world over.
Good vs evil. Never ending, the dualities cycle.
You have entered the front lines on behalf of good simply by speaking up and out.
A lot of pawns playing the part, putting on a show for each other is what that is.

Just continue the way you know you should and it's all good. That is revolution.
You do have an impact on our lives simply by being the wrabbit.
I do better in my life because of the positive influence I feel around here.
The naysayers come around eventually. All of them.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I just ignore those and respond to the people who are actually answering my question. I don't really care about the responses of those who will be jerks. I figure my question may have touched a personal nerve with them that they can't handle without lashing out at someone.

You sound like whiny schoolkids who cant play on the jungle gym today. If you are going to put your life out there to be analyzed expect ridicule! The sad thing is that you are surprised that people will scoff or make fun of someone in an ONLINE forum!
Ask yourself one question, " Would I say the same things in a public restaurant as I would on an online forum?"

reply to post by redbarron626

To reply without letting any irritation or annoyance bleed into my words has taken a moment to consider. I believe the best way to respond to your position is this....

It's an Online Forum, true. That makes it the Wild West, in some ways and people do need to have their adult game on before stepping into the ring. No question there.

Having said that, to many here, this isn't just another forum site but a wide ranging and diverse community we consider ourselves to be members of. Personally, I call a number of people here friends, to the extent that word can apply to folks I've never met. By far, most people here, I consider good people whether they feel the same toward me or not.

So, it is in that sense that I started my OP on this topic and I appreciate the replies it's been getting. Even your reply here has been valuable in showing another aspect and perspective, I must say.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I tend to be outspoken an downright demanding of anyone posting in my threads to be honest. I actually have called people out on their lies to the point of derailing my own thread to make a point of them. The reality of cyberspace is every idiot with a keyboard and opinion can fake what ever the hell they want to, as to be perceived as caring, understanding, nice, politically correct ect. 90% of these people hold conflicting views that are convoluted and once you point out the contradictions in their view points they tend to hate you for it. Most tend to be hyper political as well as left leaning but even if i don't like them personally if I feel they are correct on something i will state it. Some people take stuff too personal and wait for a moment to attack others who's view points they may not like.

However sad this reality is, it's a reality. It gets really bad when its something personal shared by a member where it could hurt them when they are down. The people the op speaks of are sad opportunist plain and simple

well wrabbit,you missed the third kind of member on ats.
that would be the person that has been a member here for over 2 years,and doesn't 'lurk' around studying people.
this type of person actually has something interesting,or informative to bring to the table.
this same person shake his/her head at some of the frivolous topics that get posted on here,such as in grown chest hairs,or 'im a teenager and i wanna summon a demon' kind of threads.
someone that actually takes the time to research something,and then post their findings here gets less attention than some dupe that writes a one liner like 'just seen this' then posts a you tube video of something retarded!
so ya, your gonna find a few of your #2's ,and i'm proposing that a few of them are #3'!!!
ya some of us #3's may be a bit sarcastic,smug,self absorbed,etc...
but you have to admit our humor is intact!
c'mon! if you have to go to some anonymous web site to find 'help',for your own personal problems,what exactly is that saying about you?
i needed help finding a good fish batter,i went to the appropriate site and found the 'help' i needed.
if my husband/wife was beating on me on a regular basis,i sure as hell wouldn't come here to ask for advice on what to do!!!! get what i mean? (not making light of abusive relationships)
you have to understand that some people get tired of silly posts,and they will lash out at them.
in case you havent noticed,this is ATS! its a tuff audience!!!

reply to post by reficul


here here! well said! bravo!

reply to post by reficul

Well, I might tend to agree with you on some topics that find their way here. I won't be so crude as to say any by name and thus, make their authors feel bad on a thread written about not doing that very thing, but I won't deny there are threads that pop up which leave me shaking my head as to what someone was thinking.

The thing is, those are the threads I shake my head at and then move on without making comment. After all, if I have nothing constructive to say and all I could do is bring negativity to a thread which already has a fair amount to be asking for help in the first place, passing on it entirely seems the only logical thing to do.

Ridiculing and making the OP feel stupid or worse than they may already on whatever the issue is seems petty and almost cruel in a few cases that come to mind over the last few months. I do believe it has a very strong chilling effect though. In fact, a couple cases that I can think of were not 'almost' at all and I've felt bad for the people, given the abuse their thread attracted.

Those who don't want those posts to appear at ATS largely succeed in insuring others who might seek advice and help.......(in those forums where it's designed for exactly that.)......have very good reasons to NOT bother trying. After all, who would need the public flogging and abuse which can so often come?

(Just a side note....but what difference does it make if someone has been here 1 month or from the day ATS opened? I've been online in one form or another since 1989. Does that mean my time here should be looked at as if I just discovered the online world on the date my Mini- indicates I made an account?)

Originally posted by redbarron626
You sound like whiny schoolkids who cant play on the jungle gym today. If you are going to put your life out there to be analyzed expect ridicule! The sad thing is that you are surprised that people will scoff or make fun of someone in an ONLINE forum!
Ask yourself one question, " Would I say the same things in a public restaurant as I would on an online forum?"

The day always comes when people who have no compassion are in need of some, and the interesting thing is no matter how they have treated others in need, they still get the genital hand from those with a heart.

I think a lot of it has to do with people's age. Granted there are always different personality types amongst the collective, but I feel it is more often very young people with bloated egos or who just enjoy the animosity, or they have not seen/lived or been taught enough compassion from those around them . Yes, I realize not all kids are like this, but because they have not gained much wisdom from life's experiences, they may lack enough empathy to appreciate where others are coming from. Some people also care about what they say and how it is received whereas others could care less. I think it is an inevitable part o the mix, and while I personally wish for more civilized discussions and posts, or communications in life in general, I also realize it is just not how it is. I feel that all I can do is hope the example of civility may rub off on others. Also, everyone is on their own path, moving at their own pace, so diverse perspectives will alway be around, imo.

Peace,
spec

Yea, but come on, posting on a conspiracy forum about an ingrown hair?? Wouldn't Google have done the trick? LOL

Speaking of personal disclosures, some guy inboxed me the other day with about 2 pages of his life/sexual history, about how his Ex was so domineering, it scared him off sex, or women, or something, I read 2 paragraphs and decided my mind didn't want to know!!

I think it was related to a thread about mens attitudes towards women I made, but that disclosure was more information than I was comfortable with!

He was sincere, but by golly, isn't their a limit to what you tell a stranger online?

I must attempt to read the whole thing and get back to him, I don't like to be rude!

Generally, I think that the person who asks a question or poses a predicament on the internet either can't be taken too seriously or is very naive. It's not often I will actually click on one of these threads to see whats up, and it's even rarer that I will think of responding, but when I do respond it's never for the sole purpose of insulting someone. I would only respond if I had something practical to offer. To be honest, both types of people that you listed in your OP tend to get on my nerves. The "helpful" types may or may not even have anything helpful to actually offer, rather they just say crap like " oh i hope you do fine and you are cool be well". These types come off as the people who cant stand anyone to dislike them in the slightest and want to be friends with everyone. Then there's the "negative" types who just want to crap all over you. They are either highly miserable or just like to troll or both. Now, I can have flares of "schadenfreud" (sp?) with the best of them, but seriously, when it comes to the internet, who really gives a #? Why not be a REAL prick and spout off on someone on the street?

tl;dr- if someone who has a problem is asking largely anonymous people for help on the net, then it either can't be that big of a problem or its non-existent.

reply to post by redbarron626


And I think that question should go to you as well....if you were in a public place and someone were to bare they're feelings about something going on in they're life, would you make fun of them and hurt them so you could have a laugh? Or would you be afraid of a face to face confrontation ? That goes for anyone that likes to troll others on here.

Personally, I think you should only be able to troll on 2 subjects per month. You go over that limit and you get kicked off.Is it more work for the administrators? Yep,but it comes with running a website.

Its unfortunate that in this day and age you have people that are online and for some strange reason think they are funny or cute when they verbally attack another person.Like I told my son once, these same people wouldn't have the guts to say these things in a bar, they know they'd get they're teeth knocked out if they tried.

Either way,there should be a way to /ignore or /ban a person on here for others if you don't want to hear what that person has to say.It wouldn't ban they from the site,just ban them from making a comment on your post.
That way if you find someone trolling your post you can at least fix it for future reference.

But it still comes down to just plain old fashioned common decency.

Lots of people of different ages around here as well as different maturity levels. There's always days where someone is in a bad mood and shares it all around. There are also lots of people who think differently so what could offend others might not seem offensive to an individual or there are just people who want to mess around. There are those who actually want to help this community and the people who have joined =) Asking for some help from many anonymous people is like talking to random people about problems. There will be those who will try to listen, and those who don't care as much you know?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Knowing the step by step process to give hope and encourage yourself and others ensures you will never be at loss for the right words to say to treasure hunt discouragement into encouragement and help others feel inspired. Some of us truly want to help other even if we dont know how, and when thats the case sometims the best and only thing to do is listen. But yet there are those other you mentioned, who just want to put people down, or think they are being funny, at the wrong time. Ive been lurking on this site for some time now and found what other have posted to be truly fasanating. And in time i will share some of my theroys and own personal stories. I wanted to wait to become a member until i fully understaned the coumminty i was eager to join. But it was after reading a post www.abovetopsecret.com... that a user was attacking the op even after the op clearly stated she knew not all would agree and wished for those who didnt to inteligently explain them selfs so she may see thier point of view, that i knew i had to respond. All my life i have beem the funny guy the person eho could make someone laugh or smile even when they were at thier worst. Ice also felt the need to try and protect others evenif i had not known them. Let me take the time to introduce myself. hello my name is Edward. I guess my parents knew at birth more than they thought because my name means happy protector. OP i agree with you 110%. I hope many read your post and try and reflect on comments they may have made in the past or in the futrue think twice about what they are about to say. S&F!

reply to post by Sinny


LOL, if you can find that post about the ingrown hair id love to read it, i could use a good laugh. But as for the guy that inboxed you that is deff going a little to far, but that is only my opinon. But the fact you said you are still willing to read as so to not be rube, speak tremendously of your character. And for that S&F!

reply to post by VeritatisIgnotae

Thank you for what you bring to the thread and I missed the thread you linked to. I'm going to return to that when I have a moment to read it over properly. It looks fascinating. I also agree with your comments here and there.

The thing I find most encouraging and why I think a rant like this is worth making in more than just the ability to publicly vent a little is a point I'd just made on another thread. ATS is what we make it and in a literal way that few other sites allow.

So, as you also seem to find fault with how attacking OPs seems to almost be developing into a sport at times, which you do show in that link, perhaps others will consider it more than they might have before as well.

_________________________

If enough people come to reject and shun that type of general thing, it wouldn't be near as common, if not largely ending. After all, those who bounce thread to thread dropping a couple lines of general attack are often doing it as much for attention and affirmation as running other people down.

Perhaps we all ought to consider simply withholding stars as a blanket thing when the messages have an overly aggressive tone or outward hostility and totally aside whether we agree with the point being made or not. That's the best way for the community to communicate something, and that would be noticed and then heard loudly, and quickly I'd be willing to bet.

(I just thought of this above, but I don't see why it wouldn't be quite effective.....if it could catch on as a general response among the majority)