Lance Armstrong to lose Tour de France titles, be banned for life after ending defense

Since this thread has more attention for some reason, examples:

Michael Jordan in this same context used no matter what anyone says
Wayne Gretzky in this same context used no matter what anyone says


The only two athletes in this era that can compare to the accomplishments of Lance are these two.

No sport has been tested like Cycling for PED's. EVER. Most of the stuff that ends up being used in other sports COMES from cycling. Example just in the last two weeks: Cabrea and Colon.

Lance is clean. He is a Freak of Nature for Cycling. End of Story.

Go look at Eddie Mercxx and tell me that guy was on something.

reply to post by jiggerj

Come to think of it, Are there certain foods forbidden when in competitions?

Hey, you have me stumped...and that sounds too 'behind the scenes' a detail to trust to my usual turn to web research.

I wonder, is there anyone else on who could answer that? I can only speak to trucking and the 24/7 drug testing program we were all under as a standard part of commercial driving. To say they are picky...doesn't even touch it. lol.... However, for all that, nothing forbidden in terms of the drug testing program. Mythbusters showed Poppy Seed buns can actually throw a false positive for a brief time, as I recall..but I don't think that's what you meant. Hey, I'm really wanting to know that myself now.

Lance Armstrong was a fraud. He used illegal substances. This is proven by the UNITED STATES ANTI-DOPING AGENCY www.usada.org...

Like it or not.

My opinion anyways is the following: the Tour de France and similar events are one of the greatest fairs of bodyenhancing substances on the planet. I doubt the legality of EVERY SINGLE driver over the last (letssay) 20 years. They are doing things FOR WEEKS which would leave any other athlet after a day wiped out on his bed. They do it for several days in a row. Every day maximum speed. Impossible.

reply to post by ManFromEurope
Ur link is bogus. Cycling athletes are tested like no other in the World. Armstrong never failed a Drug Test. More legit Links are needed.

Also, just becuz you cant do it doesnt mean someone else cant. Go play the Sport of Basketball like MJ and come back to me and tell me "theres no way MJ couldnt of done that" without the help of PED's.

Again, sometimes there are Freaks, usually there at the Circus and sometimes there in Sports.

reply to post by jiggerj


A very valid point.

I think from that, the understanding is that they don't care so much about advantages, rather the 'naturalness' of it.

reply to post by ManFromEurope


Competitions are meant to be hard. That's why you train hard. Saying it's impossible and therefore everyone is a cheater is absolutely outrageous.

If they haven't got proof in black & white in the form of a positive drug test then what the hell are they even trying to do? He's always done the tests, never failed them, several hundreds too. How can this committee just ignore that? Hes the best therefore a cheater?

I guess Ferrari cheated too when Schumacher kept winning EVERY freakin' race!

Originally posted by Swizzy
reply to post by ManFromEurope

 

Competitions are meant to be hard. That's why you train hard. Saying it's impossible and therefore everyone is a cheater is absolutely outrageous.

No, it is simply impossible without energy boosts every night in the hotels. Do you need evidence besides the fact that there are always huge numbers of drug-related findings on the Tour? Really?

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Lance Armstrong was a fraud. He used illegal substances. This is proven by the UNITED STATES ANTI-DOPING AGENCY www.usada.org...

Like it or not.

My opinion anyways is the following: the Tour de France and similar events are one of the greatest fairs of bodyenhancing substances on the planet. I doubt the legality of EVERY SINGLE driver over the last (letssay) 20 years. They are doing things FOR WEEKS which would leave any other athlet after a day wiped out on his bed. They do it for several days in a row. Every day maximum speed. Impossible.

I hate to nitpick, but this is from your own linked source:

should Mr. Armstrong choose, where the evidence can be presented, witness testimony will be given under oath and subject to cross examination, and an independent panel of arbitrators will determine the outcome of the case.”

You realize how that wording indicates they proceeded on this, right? He was put in the position of being declared guilty be default with the opportunity graciously provided to prove his own innocence. Arbitration.. Yeah... It's not even a proper legal proceeding like court. He's been destroyed without due process with his only option being to prove innocence against what became presumed guilt. No evidence has been offered and he's never failed a test.

Not that proof of innocence necessarily matters these days. It seems to depend on one's real offense. His seemed to be winning too many times. If he'd been a solid and regular second placer and not 1st, I'll bet he'd still be racing if he wanted to be.

reply to post by ManFromEurope


Look at Iron Man contests. Tour de france isn't the only sport that requires copious amounts of energy daily. Not saying doping doesn't happen in either but to assume someone is cheating just because they keep winning, adhere to the rules and pass all tests is a cheater is ludicrous.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Great catch...



I think this whole thing stinks to high heaven

Join the ranks of Barry Bonds...Mr Armstrong. Don't feel bad! They used you...just like they use everyone else. No one gets the BIG PICTURE, yet??? And, for those of you that don't think Bonds' got the same deal...look at his stats, when he was 160lbs in Pittsburgh. We live in a world of "public opinion"; which is hardly based on facts! All HEARSAY!

Explanation: Fixing broken links ...

lance armstrong ending fight vs anti doping agency could lose tour de france title [aol.sportingnews.com]

lance armstrong ban from cycling [huffingtonpost.com]

Armstrong doping charges [usatoday.com]

Personal Disclosure: LOL at the doping agency try to change the reality of what happened. :shk:

As someone who is suffering from cancer I have to say Lance Armstrong's books have both been inspirational to me. He will always be a legend in my eyes. It seems to me like the French have had a bit of a vendetta against Armstrong. They don't like it when it's not one of their own and especially an American that wins the Tour.

Anyway, for me as someone who had little interest in cycling, after reading "it's not about the bike", I had a new found respect for Armstrong and the Tour.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Lance Armstrong was a fraud. He used illegal substances. This is proven by the UNITED STATES ANTI-DOPING AGENCY www.usada.org...

Like it or not.

My opinion anyways is the following: the Tour de France and similar events are one of the greatest fairs of bodyenhancing substances on the planet. I doubt the legality of EVERY SINGLE driver over the last (letssay) 20 years. They are doing things FOR WEEKS which would leave any other athlet after a day wiped out on his bed. They do it for several days in a row. Every day maximum speed. Impossible.

I hate to nitpick, but this is from your own linked source:

should Mr. Armstrong choose, where the evidence can be presented, witness testimony will be given under oath and subject to cross examination, and an independent panel of arbitrators will determine the outcome of the case.”

You realize how that wording indicates they proceeded on this, right? He was put in the position of being declared guilty be default with the opportunity graciously provided to prove his own innocence. Arbitration.. Yeah... It's not even a proper legal proceeding like court. He's been destroyed without due process with his only option being to prove innocence against what became presumed guilt. No evidence has been offered and he's never failed a test.

Not that proof of innocence necessarily matters these days. It seems to depend on one's real offense. His seemed to be winning too many times. If he'd been a solid and regular second placer and not 1st, I'll bet he'd still be racing if he wanted to be.

edit on 24-8-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

My guess goes that if you had "won" 7 TdF, became famous about it - you would FIGHT for it. If Armstrong gives up so easily, not even going to court, I guess he knows that he would fail. This way he may say "woah, I couldn't stand the stench of those guys in the court room anymore, I just quit it!".

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Here's some interesting information from your first link:

USADA maintains that Armstrong has used banned substances as far back as 1996, including the blood-booster EPO and steroids as well as blood transfusions — all to boost his performance.

The 40-year-old Armstrong walked away from the sport in 2011 without being charged following a two-year federal criminal investigation into many of the same accusations he faces from USADA. The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods — and encouraged their use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team. USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him. Other than suggesting they include Landis and Tyler Hamilton, both of whom have admitted to doping offenses, the agency has refused to say who they are or specifically what they would say.

Seriously? Does everyone really think that Landis would have given detailed allegations of a complex blood doping program on the TEAM if it was a lie? It sounds like a team problem, not just Armstrong's.

Originally posted by theknuckler
Bottom line is he cheated,....

No. The bottom line is he was bullied and bullied and finally decided he'd spent enough time and money defending himself against a bunch of people who simply couldn't prove their accusations. He hasn't been proven guilty .. not even close.

I doubt there is a team in professional cycling that is completely clean. Someone is doping or has doped to get to that level. Now, if the team is actively encouraging doping and denying riders an oppurtunity if they refuse to use enhancements is a a different matter.

Also, the current Olympic mens gold medal winner, a 38y/o Khazkistani was banned for 2 years for a failed EPO test after the 07 Tour De France.

How long can a testing agency keep samples and continue to test them? If every pro athlete from every sport was required to give urine, hair, blood, stool, toe nail clippings and eye boogers and those samples could be tested 50 years from now, no athlete would be clean. Back in the day coc aine wasn't illegal, golfers use blood pressure meds to steady their hands. 70's baseball players used amphetamines, Andre' Agassi used meth. There are stories of a few NFL players that played better with a hang-over; are the after effects of alcohol performance enhancing? probably not for most, but if it just helpful for a few isn't that a enhancement?

What about residual BGH is the food supply? 6'2 250lb 12 year olds isn't normal.

Where does testing start and when does it end?

All your links are 404ed.

Existing thread here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please add further comments to the ongoing discussion.
Thank you







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