Constan Geo-Depression Mapping

I was talking about this in another forum yesterday and I have been trying to find out some more information about it but have had no luck. So basically what I have heard and seen is that the U.S. Govt. is using Satellites to perform Constant Geo-Depression Mapping to detect changes in the natural landscape to identify a presence within the vicinity of a Govt. Installation or somewhere that needs to be secure. It supposedly scans the terrain so quickly it can detect any intrusion within a second. Has anyone else heard of this style of surveillance or have any information? I have yet to find any real information besides appropriate satellite placements above Area 51.

I am doing quite a bit of research, so before you flame me for asking you to do the work for me understand that I have lost sleep over this(and other subjects at the same time) But I have turned up squat and need to find some info or at least something to go on.

-Sumdumguy

reply to post by Sumdumguy


I would think that motion detectors using IR would be quite sufficient when coupled with thermal sensing, video, micro-seismic (foot falls), drones, chem sniffers, and standard human guards along with all the low tech, but just as effective physical layer measures like fences, razor wire, hostile environment, would be enough.

Using satellites for such as a static emplacement OPSEC measure would seem wasteful of good up-link bandwidth.

reply to post by Sumdumguy


I remember talking with you in the infiltrating area 51 thread about this. I think it's fascinating. It make sense to me to have a satellite doing that. Apparently Red Cell was able to get past certain sensors if they simply moved slowly enough. This tech would negate their ability to do that. i'm guessing it works like a radar system but much more precise and sensitive. Have you heard what type of media it uses. ie...Microwaves, radar, lasers to scan the ground. That might be a way to get past the thing if you can figure out what sort of beam it's scanning with.

reply to post by Druscilla


Your draw a good point but what it does not account for is the physical evidence of the launched satellite that now hovers almost directly over the base and was stated to be a Terrain Research Satellite for the U.S. Forestry Service. Look it up it is public record but you have to track where it is yourself. Why else would a satellite with that equipment be suspended above an area such as that?

To be honest I'm not here to argue my case. I know its there I can prove its there but only by the equipment its carrying and its location. I am looking for: Who built it? Where did the money come from? Where did THAT money come from? I don't have enough information to prove anything other than what it is said to be and where it is. I will not stop until i have satisfied myself with all of the proper information. If that information does come out inconclusive then I will accept it. But I will always question no matter what. In short, I need assistance finding the trail.

-Sumdumguy

reply to post by Druscilla


I know seismic sensors were used in Vietnam with mixed success. I am sure the modern ones work a million times better. But couldn't the wind impacting a sand dune be enough to mess with the sensors. The tech or guard comes out to check on the seismic sensor that just went off and finds nothing. Figures it's the wind or something like an animal. If it happens too many times the guard just says screw it I'm not going out to check on it for the tenth time. The sensors just not calibrated right or something and gives up on said sensor.

Red Cell used to do something similar with motion sensors. They would release rabbits to trip them. Eventually the guard would give up on checking the sensor that kept gong off because he would blame it on rabbits. Then Red Cell would infiltrate tripping the sensor but confident the guard would just ignore it because it's obviously rabbits tripping it.

The techno gear is cool. But it still needs to be monitored by a human and that is the weak spot that can be taken advantage of.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


I do not know what it uses at all and that is what bothers me. I know it launched and I know where it is located but other than that I am at a loss I have searched and searched, dug and dug and I have found nothing. If it was just for the Forestry Service the records would be easily attainable and I am very good at getting information that isn't easy to get. But this has absolutely no trail that I can locate.

-Sumdumguy

Also I am not worrying about how to get by it for the simple fact that none of us can with the tech that's available to us. I just want to know the truth. That is my ultimate goal in life.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


With the Hyper-Sensitive Seismometer they use they also use triangulation and can pinpoint the exact location of the disturbance and I would assume that surveillance would be able to target that area within seconds.

Makes sense to me. I know the ones in vietnam were really simple. They basically told you if someone was coming down a trail. Damn trigonometry and triangulation!!!!

Pretty cool that you have an inside as to the launch of the satellite that does the geo-depression mapping. ANy idea where the sat was launched from.

ALso, what are you speculating the sat is using to do the mapping? I'm thinking some sort of microwave. But I am no expert in this subject.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


It was launched out of Houston according to the records but I did not see it launch. And it isn't used for mapping they already have depression maps of the area I am speculating that it is scanning the terrain and comparing those scans to the current map for any irregularities.

-Sumdumguy

Edit- Although the records state that it was launched out of Houston, I do not believe it was because if it was I would have known when it was launched and would have watched it launch.

I figure that it takes a scan and then uses that as it's benchmark for the next scan to detect any differences. So in effect it is remapping the area constantly and comparing the latest map to the previous one taken a few seconds earlier to see if there are any changes.

ALso it makes sense to bury the paper trail and say it was launched out of Houston. Probably could have been launched out in the pacific so that nobody would notice it. Do you know when the sat was launched by any chance?

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
reply to post by Druscilla

 

I know seismic sensors were used in Vietnam with mixed success. I am sure the modern ones work a million times better. But couldn't the wind impacting a sand dune be enough to mess with the sensors. The tech or guard comes out to check on the seismic sensor that just went off and finds nothing. Figures it's the wind or something like an animal. If it happens too many times the guard just says screw it I'm not going out to check on it for the tenth time. The sensors just not calibrated right or something and gives up on said sensor.

Red Cell used to do something similar with motion sensors. They would release rabbits to trip them. Eventually the guard would give up on checking the sensor that kept gong off because he would blame it on rabbits. Then Red Cell would infiltrate tripping the sensor but confident the guard would just ignore it because it's obviously rabbits tripping it.

The techno gear is cool. But it still needs to be monitored by a human and that is the weak spot that can be taken advantage of.

Ranged optics and drones could sort such things out without ever a bother to anyone.
Sensor goes off, and someone flips a switch in an air-conditioned building to see if there's anything showing on a monitor.
They cycle through IR, Thermal, visible, Low light, and UV where if they find something, then, killer drones can shred it, or personnel can be dispatched to detain. If not, no worries.

I keep waiting for a group of geeks to send in a distributed network of cheap crawlers to inch their way slowly closer to A51, where maybe after a month of creeping, the geek crawlers are close enough to get good visuals.

Wouldn't be difficult to program some cheap crawlers to simply go go go, and only send a chirp with position data and such every two or three days where the controlling geeks can then update instruction sets.

reply to post by Druscilla


While I accept your ideas may I just ask one question? What is easier to disable? a drone or a satellite? Your response would be something like this: drones can be taken out easier but they can launch more. satellites can maneuver very quickly in space when there is nothing stopping them such as gravity or air. U.S. Govt. satellites are equipped with many other defense mechanisms that divert heat guided arms as well as EMP shots that can disable any piece of equipment you can send at them as well as the Govt. techies that can hack into anything and relieve the controller of the armament of that control.

-Sumdumguy

Also may i request one more time that if you do not have information that can assist me in my searches please refrain from posting I am not here to argue the existence of this satellite because i know beyond a reasonable doubt it is there. please respect my wishes and the goal of this thread.

Originally posted by Sumdumguy
reply to post by Druscilla

 

While I accept your ideas may I just ask one question? What is easier to disable? a drone or a satellite? Your response would be something like this: drones can be taken out easier but they can launch more. satellites can maneuver very quickly in space when there is nothing stopping them such as gravity or air. U.S. Govt. satellites are equipped with many other defense mechanisms that divert heat guided arms as well as EMP shots that can disable any piece of equipment you can send at them as well as the Govt. techies that can hack into anything and relieve the controller of the armament of that control.

-Sumdumguy

Also may i request one more time that if you do not have information that can assist me in my searches please refrain from posting I am not here to argue the existence of this satellite because i know beyond a reasonable doubt it is there. please respect my wishes and the goal of this thread.

edit on 22-8-2012 by Sumdumguy because: Extra response

Actually, if a drone is "Taken Out", such action immediately compromises any OPSEC an intruder might hope to exploit through stealth.
Taking out a cheap drone would only draw attention; getting whoever killed the drone killed in the process thereby failing their entire reason for wanting to be there unseen/undetected.

Drones are cheap and expendable.
Satellites are not.

Besides that, this is an open, public forum where all views, insights, criticisms and debates on a topic, so long as they are on topic are welcome.

While a satellite may very well be in geo-sync over A51, it's doubtful it's there for anything you might think or suspect it is there for.

It could very well be there to disable/jam communications to/from other satellites passing over the area so as to ensure control of what gets seen by anyone else. with satellites doing fly-overs.
It'd make much more operational sense to have such a Hawk in the sky to keep other eyes from seeing things that are not wanted to be seen.

Ground-based security is more than capable of covering all ground-based security from the ground with conventional non-space-based methods.

reply to post by Druscilla


That is fine in that post you brought something to the table without just arguing my theory. and while yes you have every right to be here and offer insight as to what it could be it is considered discourteous to join a forum conversation that has the intent to find information about something and debate the questions and thoughts of the people in the forum. This thread was not made for debate it was made for understanding, sharing information, and coming to a conclusion of what it was that they launched that now hovers over A51 if you would like to further discuss your ideas of what it could be I have no problem with you being here but if you prefer to try to debate the idea I would politely ask that you refrain from posting in this thread and create your own thread with the purpose of debating this idea.

Now if you would please respect my wishes to stay on the topic of sharing ideas of what it is/could be it would be greatly appreciated otherwise I will consider your posts off-topic(which they would be seeings as how the topic is finding out what it is) Off-Topic post would be arguing with posts without providing any ideas to support your argument. Thank you.

-Sumdumguy

reply to post by Druscilla


And also my scenario had nothing to do with stealth when I was stating about the "taking-out" of the drone the government does not solely focus on silent threats. In the event of a hostile attack where drones were taken out, the satellite would be an eye in the sky that would be crucial for their intel and one that would not be easily "Taken-Out".

-Sumdumguy

Another reason to have a satellite in geo synch over area 51 might be to do extensive communication with whatever aircraft/space capable aircraft they have flying out of area 51. The same satellite could be used for all three purposes proposed in this thread.

1. It can be constantly doing the geo-depression mapping.

2. While doing number 1 it can also jam any other satellites doing a fly over area 51 preventing any snooping.

3. It can be used as a permanent transceiver for whatever fly's around area 51.

Personally I have no reason o doubt there is a satellite in geo synch orbit over area 51. It makes sense to me.
The camo guys can't realistically patrol everything out there at once. THey can be avoided. Also, natural geography can shield people from the sensors on occasion, so it would seem smart to me that an eye in the sky is always around just to make sure. IR and Thermal can be defeated. But to constantly scan for any topographical strangeness that shouldn't be there. Just gotta wonder what the satellite is using to do this scanning.

reply to post by BASSPLYR

Personally I have no reason o doubt there is a satellite in geo synch orbit over area 51. It makes sense to me.

You can't have a satellite in a geostationary orbit over Area 51. That can only occur over the equator.

A geosynchronous satellite in a highly elliptical orbit wouldn't be of much use for constant anything other than communications.

And what the hell is geo-depression mapping?

reply to post by Phage


It maps the terrain heights and creates a topographic map with the elevations. and yes you can have a static satellite they can change course constantly to maintain their position.

-Sumdumguy

Phage,

Basically the OP is saying that there is a satellite over area 51 the constantly scans the ground like radar every few seconds to check for anything abnormal that wasn't in the previous scan. It makes sense.

I can't argue over whether its possible to have a geo synched satellite over someplace other than the equator. I am nooooooo subject expert in that matter. I'll leave that for you and the OP to battle over.

Phage all things aside of whether or not a satellite can be held in geo synchronous orbit over area 51, what do you think of the idea of the concept of "geo-depression mapping" for security purposes?

reply to post by BASSPLYR

There are satellites for radar mapping of the surface but in general they provide resolution barely approaching that of optical telescopes. Of course, they don't have problems with clouds. Such satellites would, at best, be able to "scan" Area 51 a few times a day.



Still don't get the "geo-depression" part of it though and there is no way a satellite could provide 24 hour observation with enough detail to detect intrusions.