What is your problem with "matter" ?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

I would have to disagree in that I KNOW certain species of animals have a sense of Humor. Horses, Dogs, Cats, Dolphins, Ferrets and especially certain Birds...never mind various Great Apes and Monkeys.

People are not all that different than people think. Split Infinity

I think I wrote "laugh". I've been around dogs all my life and believe they do display a sense of humor when they play, but I've never seen one laughing ...

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

... and most likely are exchanging existence and numerical number between absolute Minimum and Maximum quantities within othe Protons and Neutrons that exist in Alternate Divergent Universal Realities via Probability, choice and Cause and Effect.

I'm not sure I understand that part? Do you mind explaining this to me?

Let's use a Proton....it is comprised of many different forms of Quantum Particles. Using one of these particles...say a Quark. There are various types of Quarks...called Up, Down, Strange, Charmed...etc. Now within a Proton...Quarks can exist in any Number between a Minimum and Maximum Numerical Quantity...but in between or at these two Numbers...they can exist numerically at will and literally BLINK IN AND OUT OF OUR UNIVERSAL EXISTENCE. It is most likely that they are moving or existing in another Alternate Universal Reality that is divergent of our Universal Realities Group...thus there are an infinite number of You's and Me's. Probability and cause and effect as well as choice will have Quarks Blinking out of our Universal Reality to a state near Minimum if there will be no change in average action...if choice by probability and cause and effect...ie...car breaks down you walk to the store and meet your future spouse...the Protons and Neutrons in your body will have Quarks existing close to or at maximum Numerical Existence...you car doesn't break down...you drive...do not meet future spouse...Quarks blick out of existence till they are close to or at Numerical Minimum. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I love it when you come into a thread, for me, it gets more interesting!

Thanks for bringing the matter to hand!

I'm going to continue to sit back and listen. :-)

Apparently, “The Spirit of God moved upon the Face of the Waters” is correct as a description of the first phase of the material evolution of the earth. As it moved through the Mind of God, its first appearance was as “mist” or vapors. . . . those portions as man looks up to in space, the mists that are gathering—what’s the beginning of this? In this same beginning, so began the earth’s sphere.

www.arecatalog.com...

I'm going to try and find this book today.... Sounds really interesting especially if you are a fan of Mr. Cayce's.

Matter was first a thought in the mind of God, then it manifested.... Of course. :-)

Someone spoke about dark matter and it is an interesting topic. Dark matter is the more generally accepted theory concerning one strange behavior that we observe when observing galaxies. It seems that there is not enough matter (stars, dust and planets) to justify for the amount of gravitational force that is at play, that holds together the stuff to form a galaxy. So scientists said that there must be some other matter there that we can't see or directly detect and they called it "dark matter" because it doesn't interact with light. There are other theories which say that dark matter is a stretch and that perhaps the answer is that at those bigger scales, gravity behaves differently, like if there was a threshold at which the gravitational force would increase exponentially.

To give an example : imagine a bag which weighs 1kg, and you put in it something that weighs 14kg. You then put the bag on a scale and surprisingly, the scale displays 100kg. Some people, the majority, will say : well, there must be something in that bag that weighs 85kg and that we can't directly detect. Others will say : no, it's the scale which is broken, and some others will say : no, it's the observer who can't read etc..

I think it is a good example of a topic in which science is in the dark. Something is happening but we don't know why, and it is obviously a topic of big importance because around 85% of the matter seems to be missing. It is different from the consciousness topic because we are not directly involved, but I imagine what would people say if we did find a strange behavior like the "dark matter" one but within our brain, in the way our brain functions. Imagine that : people would jump to the "immaterial" cause, they would invoke all sorts of religious or spiritual entities and concepts, they would say "look! it's 85% [whatever] difference!!! And science has no idea!!!"..
Don't you think ?

Originally posted by AllIsOne

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by rwfresh

 

It is usually good form to define terms before one starts a debate. "Truth", "the truth", "a truth" are all very ambiguous terms. For me there is no absolute truth. It's all in the eye of the beholder, or as you stated before: one's OWN nervous system. A very subjective, individual little thingy.

Again the dictionary term works just fine for me.

truth/tro͞oTH/
Noun:

The quality or state of being true: "the truth of her accusation".
That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality: "tell me the truth".

You can assume i am using most words as described in the dictionary. I'm actually not trying to debate. I know it happens though. You are 100% correct about the truth being a personal subjective experience. It can't be any other way right? How else would one know anything if not personally? Objective truth in terms of human experience is a mumbo jumbo concept. Objective truth as i believe you are defining it is not real. It's some arbitrary belief used to absolve a person or group from having to be honest. Objectivity is the collective subjective, but that is not accessible in any normal cognitive state. It cannot be intellectualized or communicated from one subjective ego to another.

Some "truths" that were clear to me have shifted in the span of my lifetime, and have become less true. Did they shift, or did my perception change? Therefore I cannot say that I know the truth. Believing in a truth is a better term for me, knowing is not possible for a human at this point in time ... Maybe our brains and sensory inputs will catch up with the complexity of reality, but for now I believe that the truth will evade us, if it exists at all.

Admitting not knowing the truth is the beginning of wisdom. So i applaud you. You are not alone in your observation that truth as an idea is not static. That is how ideologies evolve. Science is no different. There aren't many scientific truths that have withstood the test of time. I don't know any actually. But this is not some failure of science but rather a challenge for those who cannot admit this. We can assume that the speed of light is an eternal constant but no one can personally know that as true. It's a belief some people have.

I took your advice and looked up the noun Spirituality:

Spirituality is belief in an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality ...

I'm not interested in "beliefs". Belief is a tricky companion that often shifts like an Escher sketch. I prefer knowing, which is not possible.

Having said all of this I'm really curious how you can state that you have experienced the truth in such absolute terms. It is an honest question on my part.

Peace

Cool. I am in no way here defending or even attempting to communicate anything about the word spiritual. I used the word one time in reference to Deepak Chopra (someone else brought him up) whom labels himself as such. So the dictionary word works.

In terms of truth. Not sure what i can tell you other than it's real.. The only thing that is real in fact. And i can tell you that Truth and Reality are the same thing. I can also tell you that Truth is the source of all phenomenon and illusion in our "universe". Call all those statements my beliefs.

I'm interested how you operate cognitively if you neither subscribe to knowledge or beliefs. You don't believe knowledge is possible and you don't believe in beliefs. Are you sure you aren't operating on beliefs? Making assumptions allows most people to operate on a day to day basis. How do you do it? If everything single thought, perception and observation in continuous question? If so you are either crazy or absolutely and totally connected with Reality.

Peace!

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Thank you for your post. It will take me some time to really understand what you wrote. Google is my friend :-)

reply to post by rwfresh


Thank you for your post. I appreciate it.

In terms of truth. Not sure what i can tell you other than it's real.. The only thing that is real in fact. And i can tell you that Truth and Reality are the same thing. I can also tell you that Truth is the source of all phenomenon and illusion in our "universe". Call all those statements my beliefs.

I still don't understand how you can speak in absolute terms when our set of sensory inputs is so limited, AND our brain is capable of playing many electrochemical tricks on us. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is an absolute reality out there, but it's not for us to grasp it at this time.

I'm interested how you operate cognitively if you neither subscribe to knowledge or beliefs. You don't believe knowledge is possible and you don't believe in beliefs. Are you sure you aren't operating on beliefs? Making assumptions allows most people to operate on a day to day basis. How do you do it? If everything single thought, perception and observation in continuous question? If so you are either crazy or absolutely and totally connected with Reality.

I operate on assumptions all day long, but I'm conscious enough to know that they're not "real". The plasticity of our brain structure is a good hint to see how biology deals with grasping "reality". It's a very fluid thing. Also, my Buddhist training regarding the Ten Worlds opened up another reality of knowing and not knowing. I hope that is cryptic enough for you

One of my favorite stories:

There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "Maybe," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "Maybe," replied the old man.

The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Maybe," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out.

"Maybe," said the farmer.

Wisdom is seeing ALL consequences of action.

Peace!

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

... and most likely are exchanging existence and numerical number between absolute Minimum and Maximum quantities within othe Protons and Neutrons that exist in Alternate Divergent Universal Realities via Probability, choice and Cause and Effect.

I'm not sure I understand that part? Do you mind explaining this to me?

Isn't parallel universes just a theory?

Originally posted by gosseyn

Originally posted by r2d246
I think the problem with it is that people are brainwashed into believing thats' all there is is the phycial world. But if they'd study science which is telling them it's all physical matter then they'd also learn that inside an atom is mostly nothing. And all energy and not solid matter at all. So in those shire terms another way of putting it is everything is spiritual just doesn't have that appearance. And it's a good vr simulation

The paradox is that a great % or earth's population is religious and believes that there are angels around us and other non-physical beings. But I agree that for a lot of them, god and other beings are just part of another physical realm separated from our own. They even believe that in this other "divine non-physical but in a sense physical realm" they could physically feel pain or physically be delighted..

How would you account for endless strange sightings recorded in the history books? Millions of people just being dilusional? All having phycosys? All liars or good story tellers? Naaaa. Even with my limited exposure to certain dark arts I've experieced physical things. It's hard to explain without going into detail. But lets just say actual phycial marking left by something or someone out there. Like it's the most bizzare thing you could ever image. But talk to anyone who's played with stuff like weegee boards or other magical things and they'll likely tell you they've enountered these strange events in the physical world. Thats' what made me realize it's all real and why I became a Christian because I want to be on the right side of the equation when I die, otherwise the consequences I know wold be diar.

Originally posted by r2d246

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

... and most likely are exchanging existence and numerical number between absolute Minimum and Maximum quantities within othe Protons and Neutrons that exist in Alternate Divergent Universal Realities via Probability, choice and Cause and Effect.

I'm not sure I understand that part? Do you mind explaining this to me?

Isn't parallel universes just a theory?

Even though the concept of a Multiverse is Theory...the MATH dictates that it must be so. Our Universe is a FINITE SYSTEM but a MULTIVERSE would be an INFINITE SYSTEM. Current observations of Quantum Particle behavior and especially basic experiments of what and how Light or Photons...which are a Quantum Particle that behaves as both Particle and Wave as well as an Electron...also a Quantum Particle...which behaves as both Particle and Wave and thus we have FREQUENCY as Photons Wavelength determine the Light Spectrum as well as Electromagnetic Wavelengths determine Frequency or an easy to understand example is Radio Wave Broadcasts being received by a persons Car Radio at a Digital Channel or Frequency such as the Radio wave Length is Longer when you are tuned to 93.5 FM as opposed to 89.2 FM. The ability for a Quantum Particle to act as a Wave exhibits a condition of a system that is much more complex and larger than our Universal Reality.
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Could you link me to some sources that verify Multiverse Theory as complete and also some sources that state the Universe is finite? Preferably academic or science journals. Both is news to me. I thought Multiverse, as well as String Theory, were still in developing stages. I also thought physics moved away from a finite Newtonian Universe model about 70 or so years ago. Learn something everyday, I guess.

reply to post by openlocks
What I post are things i already have known for some time and I did not look it up but I can tell you this...Our Universe is 13.779 BILLION LIGHT YEARS. A Light Year is about 6 TRILLION MILES...as Light Travels 186,300 Miles Per Second.

The Hubble Space Telescope can see out 13.4 Billion Light Years where we run into the WMAP...a wall of Microwave Radiation and at this point there is an Ocean of Super Heated Plasma that is 379,000 Light Years Thick and ends at the point of the BIG BANG. This Super Heated Plasma impedes Lights Progress so we cannot see through it but we can calculate it as with anything in our Universe there are various ways such as Gravitational Effect as well as Doppler Shifts as well as Energy Output Calculations that allow us to determine size and distance and mass.

So well live in a FINITE UNIVERSE of which there is a Limited Number of Galaxies, Stars, Planets and Moons as well as Dark Matter and Dark Energy. We can see to it's approx. EDGE. But our Universe is but ONE UNIVERSAL REALITY within a Multiverse and our Universal Reality is but ONE GROUP of Infinite Universal Realities as there are also an Infinite Number of Universal Realities that are not of our Group and are not Divergent Universal Realities that have the same Physical Laws as ours but are Infinite Alternate Versions of our Universes Group....Continued...Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Continued.....

Imagine the Multiverse as a FOREST with an INFINITE NUMBER OF TREES. Each Tree represents a specific Group of INFINITE DIVERGENT UNIVERSAL REALITIES that are based upon each other and have the same Physical Laws but each TREE represents this ONE GROUPS INFINITE VERSIONS OF WHICH WE ARE ONE VERSION of a UNIVERSAL BRANCH on that Tree. Each branch of the Tree is another version of our Universal Realities Physical Laws and thus there are infinite versions of you and I in every branch upon this Tree where every branch represents an ALTERNATE UNIVERSAL REALITY. So one branch has a Universal reality Divergent from another so one branch is this Universe where I am Posting...and there is another Branch or Divergent Universal Reality where I did not use a Capital P when typing the word Posting and another Branch or Universal Reality where I did use a Capital P but did not CAP LOCK ...ALTERNATE UNIVERSAL REALITY. And there is our branch or Universal Reality where I am posting this like I am. This works for EVERY POSSIBILITY!
Continued...Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Continued...

Then there are all the OTHER TREES which represent Alternate Universal Realities which are NOT DIVERGENT from our group or tree and they have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SET OF GEOMETRY AND PHYSICS or are of a Universal Existence so Alien to us that we HUMANS would have no concept of what they are or how they work or even understand WHAT THEY ARE!

These TREES of ALTERNATE UNIVERSAL REALITIES are infinite in a never ending Forest that is the MULTIVERSE...and although we have a Group or Tree with INFINITE BRANCHES or versions of our Universal Reality that are Divergent from each other. So do all do each one of these other Trees or Groups have infinite versions of their Alien in nature Reality to us. Thus the Multiverse is A SYSTEM SO GRANDE IN SCOPE AND CONCEPT THAT THE HUMAN MIND HAS DIFFICULTY CONCEIVING IT!
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


You should write a holy book and start a religion !

No really, imo, you should be more prudent, you should use a more conditional style of expression when you talk about those things, and you should also mention that there are other theories out there, even if the one you chose to describe is the (or isn't) the more generally accepted theory.

reply to post by gosseyn

It is a Theory but the difference in the Concept of a Multiverse is that THE MATH DICTATES IT MUST EXIST! That is the true tell in my opinion. Plus...it fits in very well with QUANTUM MECHANICS as well as why the Macro-Universe acts in one way and the Quantum World acts in a very different way.

This is made even more confusing by the FACT that all PARTICLES OF AN ATOM ARE MADE OF SMALLER QUANTUM PARTICLES...Electrons are a Quantum Particle. But Protons and Neutrons are completely comprised or constructed of smaller Quantum Particles that BLINK IN AND OUT OF OUR UNIVERSAL REALITY! This is NOT THEORY BUT FACT!

So...where do they go? I have described this earlier. Einstein worked on THE UNIFIED FIELD THEORY till his death and this means understanding and connecting the Macro-Universal Laws such as Gravity and behavior of Celestial Bodies as large as Galaxies and as small as an Atoms Nucleus ...to the smaller Quantum Particles that MAKE UP EVERYTHING. Yet they do not behave by the same rules. Since Matter and Energy are INTERCHANGEABLE and people forget...Matter has energy as a part of it or in reality...All Matter is comprised of Quantum Particles that exist in Particle/Wave Form as well as exist in a Divergent Alternate Universal Reality FLUX. Thus the BLINK IN AND OUT OF EXISTENCE! But like QUARKS...which many different types exist inside a Proton or Neutron...Up, Down, Charmed, Strange...etc...these Quarks exist in between or at a Minimum Number and Maximum Number inside every Proton or Neutron. There cannot exist more or less than these Numerical Minimums or Maximums...BUT THEY CAN EXIST IN ANY QUANTITY AT OR IN BETWEEN! This is a FACT! They Blink in and out of existence and my Theory and I have conferred with other Physicists about this...is that they will transfer existence to another Divergent Universes Proton or Neutron of that alternate double of matter construct if it is either about to have a change occur by choice or cause and effect via probability...they will transfer to that Divergent Universe and exist at or close to Maximum...if there is to be no real change...they will exist in their current Universal Reality at a Minimum...if Probability Dictates a 50/50% chance of either action or no action...Quarks will exist at a Medium number. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


This is awesome.... Please continue with your thoughts.

Thanks!

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by rwfresh

 

Thank you for your post. I appreciate it.

Glad to speak with you! Thanks for all your insight and challenging ideas.

I still don't understand how you can speak in absolute terms when our set of sensory inputs is so limited, AND our brain is capable of playing many electrochemical tricks on us. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is an absolute reality out there, but it's not for us to grasp it at this time.

Think of it this way. Can i know my sensory inputs are totally lacking? My mental capacity is totally lacking? My ability to perceive Truth in it's absolute glory is totally lacking? Despite my ability to ever be able to comprehend it or communicate it it(Reality/Truth) absolutely exists.. for me and without me. Whether "I" can admit it or not.. it exists. If i deny it it exists. If i label it, it exists. But knowing this i am able to admit and accept it. And the experience itself.. it communicates beyond my failure it's absolute existence. If anything it is more real than anything i might believe myself to be. I don't pretend i have anything to do with it. Like i am special or so smart. I do feel blessed and i am extremely grateful for the gift of knowing that despite my total lack, temporal being and failure to express it.. the perfect truth exists eternally. I have no doubt. But yeah i don't "grasp" it intellectually. Maybe someone will someday.. But from what i do know about it that seems HIGHLY unlikely and it also seems like wrong thinking. Trying to understand it intellectually is like trying to taste something with your eyes. We would all love to. But it's not the most real kind of relationship we can have with it (just my beliefs for sure).

I operate on assumptions all day long, but I'm conscious enough to know that they're not "real". The plasticity of our brain structure is a good hint to see how biology deals with grasping "reality". It's a very fluid thing. Also, my Buddhist training regarding the Ten Worlds opened up another reality of knowing and not knowing. I hope that is cryptic enough for you

I totally get where you are coming from and i am quite certain i operate the same way.. No doubt!

One of my favorite stories:

There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "Maybe," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "Maybe," replied the old man.

The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Maybe," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out.

"Maybe," said the farmer.

Wisdom is seeing ALL consequences of action.

Peace!


Great story! It's true. And i understand that all the while the neighbors labelled the events good or bad and the farmer remained undecided because the larger event was still unfolding. the Truth existed and persisted beyond all the reasoning, questioning, observation. None of them may have grasped it, the farmer may have been more connected to it through his honesty towards it.. it remained! But great story, thanks!

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by gosseyn

 

So...where do they go

Is it possible they go to the same place a mirage goes when we get close enough to it? ie: nowhere because there is no actual substance to it?

Anything is possible. I think the multiverse theory is very likely. But no more likely than the universe theory It just seems like a never-ending theoretical maze.. at each exit we add another corner. Like the often cited misunderstanding of our creation of Reality. It's a misquoted concept because it makes a lot of sense to a lot of people. The apparent reality is not real. It is not actual. It is without substance. Our observation is creating it.