Are there any legit Gurus on ATS?

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by arpgme

 

Give you the simple truth? Nope. Give you a way that you might get at the simple truth yourself is more like it.

Morpheus couldn't take the red pill for Neo. He couldn't tell him what simple truth of the Matrix was. Words won't do it. Neo had to see it for himself by transcending the simple lie he took for reality. Morpheus just showed him the door. If you want the simple truth you have to walk through it and see.

edit on 18-8-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

The Matrix is what is creating the false reality that everyone is sleeping in, and if you understand The Matrix, you can control physics even - there you go - the plain and simple truth.

Morpheus understood the Matrix, and yet Neo still had to take the red pill in order for the truth to sink in deeply enough to make him puke. Why is that?

If you hear the truth it won't make you puke. But if you transcend the lie and unite directly with the truth, it will make you puke. It will make you think you are loosing your mind. It will initiate you. It will dismember your ego-self and then re-member it.

That is liberation. That, as Morpheus said, is the difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

reply to post by BlueMule


Ok, and that makes sense, but my point was that you can still just tell people the truth instead of trying to use fancy words (mumbo-jumbo, beating around the bush).

There are too many "gurus" just using fancy words, beating around the bush, and repeating old metaphors instead of coming up with their own creative way to explain it and just tell the truth instead of worrying about being seen as "crazy" or not. SOMEBODY will believe what they say.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Ok, and that makes sense, but my point was that you can still just tell people the truth instead of trying to use fancy words (mumbo-jumbo, beating around the bush).

There are too many "gurus" just using fancy words, beating around the bush, and repeating old metaphors instead of coming up with their own creative way to explain it and just tell the truth instead of worrying about being seen as "crazy" or not. SOMEBODY will believe what they say.

I do understand where you are coming from. I understand that kind of frustration. I lived with it for years.

Mystics can only tell the truth to the degree that their particular language allows them. That's why Lau Tzu said that the truth will sound paradoxical. Mystics come back from ego-death at a loss for words. Often they won't say anything. That's why the word mystic is related to the word mute.

Once I had your kind of frustration. Now I have a different kind of frustration. A frustration with the inadequacy of language to say what I want to say.

"Words and sentences are produced by the law of causation and are mutually conditioning—they cannot express highest Reality." -The Lankavatara Sutra (Buddhist)

"The gnostics know, but what they know cannot be communicated. It is not in the power of the possessors of this most delightful station...to coin a word which would denote what they know." -Ibn 'Arabi (Muslim)

"That Oneness is on the other side of descriptions and states. Nothing but duality enters speech's playing-field." -Rumi

reply to post by BlueMule


While Gurus have the ability to call on psychic faculties, just because one is psychic doesn't make them a Guru. High ethic/morality are not requirements for the use of psychic ability, and there is also the matter of where the power is coming from. One man may use a demon/ghost to manipulate the weather while another is using his own inner connection.

From the site, a characteristic of guru

"He lifts the student to be able to access the Soul knowledge within. This is as opposed to some people with sixth sense (ESP) who, as mediums, access knowledge from subtle bodies (spirits) in the subtle dimension. When one acts only as a medium, one cannot make spiritual progress."

Originally posted by MassOccurs
reply to post by BlueMule

 

While Gurus have the ability to call on psychic faculties, just because one is psychic doesn't make them a Guru.

Then there is no use using psychic ability as a litmus test, which you seem to be doing when you ask "can you pinpoint a friends location at will? Can you predict the weather" if gurus and non-gurus can.

High ethic/morality are not requirements for the use of psychic ability...

Nor are they requirements for being a guru.

One man may use a demon/ghost to manipulate the weather while another is using his own inner connection.

How would you determine that? Demons/ghosts could very well be manifestations of psychic ability in symbolic form. RSPK...

Originally posted by MassOccurs
reply to post by 0mage

 

You and I are using the term guru differently. Mine reflects enlightened conscious at its highest level and application, just having it doesn't qualify.

As far as your particular experience, I'm sure there are 600 people in New York State,let alone the world, who could provide a similar story of near 20 years of study and practice including breakthrough.

The guru has exceeding rare qualities that differ from the highly accomplished practitioner.

Here's one from the site:

-The Guru being omniscient intuitively knows what is best for the student to further his spiritual progress. He guides on a one-to-one basis.

Many people confuse awareness of the mind's high power with enlightenment. How many then go on to be able to direct and control this talent. Can you pinpoint a friends location at will? Can you predict the whether?

a practitioner is a disciple or student. a guru has attained. i believe ur interpretting ur own reference incorrectly. because according to your quote.. that is precisely what im doing.. via the internet no less.

Originally posted by MassOccurs
Or would you say that there are more than 600 equal at the top level? I'd find this hard to believe considering rampant problems in soceity...

edit on 18-8-2012 by MassOccurs because: (no reason given)

Not that I consider myself to be one of those, although the observing of the great illusion does appeal to me. Why should any such developed person be able to solve all of societies problems and why would they want to? If such persons exist then they made some choice in their lives which lead them to become more developed, once they have some level they would look around and see others not making that same choice and respect that I guess.

What do you suppose such people would have to do in order to solve problems in society? Create mass hallucinations like invading aliens or angels and demons to impress people in order to subdue them to their will and command them to change their ways? Like going to a town, make everybody believe they are possessed by demons, then offer them to teach themselves how to defend against them.

Or is it more like just going on national television and look real 'divine' into the camera? Which I've always wondered how people think they can recognize that (or Jesus or 'Christ consciousness') when they've never been any place else than this planet. Then, if someone claims they have seen it, why did they look away?

reply to post by 0mage


I'm just saying I'm skeptical that I'm communicating with people at the highest level of attainment, on a website like this.

I don't doubt your a spiritual person who has put a lot of effort into your evolution and helps people selflessly.

I do doubt that you are significantly beyond the millions who also do this.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


I really liked your post. I think people who reach high success lend to overcome significant challenges. Do we really want the world to be better/easier? So we want to do away with suffering? There was an earlier post that talked about how a second path to enlightenment was a mental response to extreme fear. My personal experience has had me face a lot of hurdles, an I think maybe I have a higher potential to jump because of it.

reply to post by BlueMule


Well, I think psychic ability is a decent litmus test because of it's rarity in earnest. What brought me to it was the guru being referred to as omniscient.


Can you tell me about any enhanced ability as a result of your enlightenment? Anything that is practical?


Why don't you make a bunch of money? There's nothing wrong with that, you could donate most of it.

reply to post by MassOccurs


The traditional mystical technique of gurus is yoga. The goal of yoga is 'to yoke' the mind to God. In other words, to acheive a unitive state. I have acheived that, thanks to Divine Grace.

Blue Pearl Yoga

I've seen and interacted with many Blue Pearls. According to some, seeing a Blue Pearl means you are a guru of the highest order. I've seen and interacted with lights, both in my skull during altered states of mystical consciousness and 'out there' as what some people would call 'UFOs'. In terms of the ET mythos I am a UFO abductee. It might surprise some people to learn that "UFOs" are an ancient mystical phenomenon. Not a technological/biological phenomenon.

I've had many psychic experiences. I am capable of Siddhi but I chose to leave my capabilities for Divine Wisdom to use or not to use. I am not requried to seize control. Psychic abilities come from the unconscious mind, not the conscious mind. Trying to control them consciously is dangerous and sporadic and is not necessary for liberation.

A guru is not a guru because some website says so. A guru is a guru because of his or her mystical experiences. I've studied comparative mysticism and parapsychology enough to know what I am. I don't need a website or you to validate me.

God is beyond good and evil, beyond dualism, beyond pairs of opposites. When a guru 'yokes' himself to God, he too is beyond good and evil. He can do things that an observer might judge to be immoral without losing his "guru-hood".

But hey, believe what you want. It's not like I'm trying to recruit students or followers or whatever. I just like to talk and share what I can.

Originally posted by MassOccurs
reply to post by 0mage

 

I'm just saying I'm skeptical that I'm communicating with people at the highest level of attainment, on a website like this.

I don't doubt your a spiritual person who has put a lot of effort into your evolution and helps people selflessly.

I do doubt that you are significantly beyond the millions who also do this.

what does it matter what level we are.. this is not a competition! focus on ur own development. learn from others to assist u in catapulting urself further faster.

but by every and all means.. be skeptical. take everything with a grain of salt. you are absolutely right. u cannot just trust the words of someone over the internet wholeheartedly and dive in. or i would say.. one should not.. it is not wise. so i will commend u as well for taking an intelligent stance.

just u will have to figure out what you would do and how you would know when someone placed all the answers right under your nose. this could happen.. so u should have a system of some sort in place to test and gain ur insight into what u should follow. u need to learn how to identify truth. and in my case.. i prayed for years over the course of my journey for the Lord God to show me truth. dont know if ur a praying man/woman.. but i can only do what i can do.. and that is to put this information out there. to make my testimony and ask others if they truly want to know to try it for themselves.

im not asking u to believe me. im asking you to go and see if what i say is true for yourself by pointing you to the door that i walked thru. it is that simple.. i couldve transcended this earthly plane already. but i asked to stay.. i wanted to see how this all pans out with front row seats however stupid that sounds. and to help others by pointing to the door. walk thru it if u will... choose your pill LOL

chakra system, 3rd eye, path to enlightenment, kundalini - Real, Real, Real, Real.

reply to post by 0mage


I agree with pretty much your whole post.

The purpose of this thread was to have people consider the source when coming to ATS seeking spiritual guidance or confirmation of their ideas.

It's probably fair to say that many posts talking about the reality of spiritual ideas are coming from people who haven't accomplished much and are just sort of parroting and looking for acceptance.

Having someone tell you that the third eye is real carries a different impact when coming from someone who has achieved it's activation. Even if it is a true statement, if it is said by someone without experience it becomes dishonest and may become detrimental if a seeker puts any stock in it.

I sometimes imagine a person reading a post that is promoting spiritual ideas, considering them and feeling good from them, but then the thought is traced to it's source in the common mind and reaches a dead end. The ego mind still feels truth in the statement while at deeper levels it has been discounted creating a disconnect that impedes growth.

check out this movie.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

this movie aims to convey everything from a screenplay perspective. facts upon facts and some hidden meanings as well if u can grasp them. i'll consider doing a breakdown and analogy of some of the meanings of the symbols in the movie. and symbols can be entire sequences of action not just hand signs or pictures on the wall etc. they can even be in a tone of voice when saying particular words.

Deny ignorance.. connect everything because everything is connected. do not specialize.. do holistic study.

a mechanic will only see how it applies to mechanics.. a geneticist will only see how it applies to genetics.. but someone who studies multiple fields will see how ridiculously similar each field is in terms of the framework. the aim is to extract the universal equation. the answer is 0

but 0 im sure has a very different meaning for me.

reply to post by 0mage


Thanks, a lot. I wasn't familiar with the term kundalini, although I've pondered similar concepts. Did some reading on that today...

I try and study multiple fields and take the universal approach that you're promoting. I'm 21 and it takes a great deal of focus for me just to observe the conditioned aspects of my mentality that jam potential. Trying to break out of bad habits. Do you think media expansion has made the path to enlightenment more difficult for people born in more recent years? I guess it helps in the way of information access, but it hurts if one doesn't use it to actively gather knowledge and prioritizes (consciously or not) entertainment at the base emotion levels. The latter seems to be the approach in majority.


I also would like to hear what you say about the process of spiritual development. I was reading a Kaballah book and a point it made was that reading spiritual literature is not really required...anything that can be learned can be done so by simply observing nature. A part of me thought this may even be a superior approach and thought maybe I should discontinue philosophic study in the academic sense and instead allow my mind to take form more naturally...I don't know, I guess there is no proven superior method for all individuals. The different schools of yoga illustrate this well.

tell me gurus i am thinking of changing my real world name but i cannot decide what to change it to.

what is your advice? am i blowing my own horn? i do not desire a name but it has been hankering at me.

Originally posted by MassOccurs
There may be a higher potential for saints, which by the site's estimate there is a little over 10,500 worldwide. Some saints are at equal level as a guru, but the guru is more effective in managing that high level. Check out the sites.

"Every sinner has a future, and every saint, a past."
~ Oscar Wilde

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by MassOccurs
There may be a higher potential for saints, which by the site's estimate there is a little over 10,500 worldwide. Some saints are at equal level as a guru, but the guru is more effective in managing that high level. Check out the sites.

"Every sinner has a future, and every saint, a past."
~ Oscar Wilde

If that struck you as disturbing, or if you felt it speaks poorly of me to say such a thing, with you as my judge, then you are at a very very low level on the sliding sainthood % scale and are mired in extreme ignorance; if you found it slightly amuzing, then you may be on the path of the early stages of an authentic spiritual journey; if uproariously funny and playfully amuzing, then you too are definitely on the path to sainthood - congratulations!

Guru-hood - that's just the blind leading the blind, except for maybe a mere handful of individuals in our world at any given time, even then do any know the father as Jesus did?

"And as my father hath sent me, even so send I you."

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Star for that, and glad I read the first post and thought about it before the second. Found it to be astute and amusing, but not as amusing as the follow up.

Your comment about Guru-hood was also accurate by my thinking and in line with my OP which referred to a site where by their definition Gurus are one in over 12 million.

Last night i intoduced someone to their true self.
It was not expected, i did not plan it, it just happened. It was just the second time i had met them and they began telling me that they had tried to commit suicide in the past and that they were bipolar. I asked if they had recieved any therapy and inquired if they had explored their childhood, he said he had.
I then spoke to him about what had happened to me and how i had suffered greatly and how i had found the cure.
At some point he said he 'Oh my God i feel amazing, all tingly, i feel i could conquer the world feeling like this'. I told him that the feeling was 'aliveness' and that this is what life feels like.
There were two other people in the room playing pool who were not in on the conversation (but could hear what was being spoken) but when there was silence they kept saying 'i feel so chilled out', whereas when i got there one was saying 'i am tired and my stomach aches', that had gone and was replaced by an all emcompassing peace.
At one point he looked at me and said, shaking his head in disbelief 'You are so lovely, what you are saying is so lovely'. I just said that i was so glad he could hear what i was saying because most people can't. Because he has had enough suffering he could hear me. But not only could he hear me, he said that there was just a massive good feeling, he said is it called 'aura'? He told me i should open my own church, ha, ha.

At some point in the evening he said 'you had better stop because my mind is melting', i said that is good. I showed him the nothingness and he totally got it, i was as amazed as he was. To find someone so receptive was incredible and rare. Only someone who is ready to give their life up will hear the truth.