South African Police open fire on protesting Miners.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


'Workers' wives join Lonmin protest- A group of women armed with knobkerries (traditional club) moved toward a hill yesterday where some striking miners had gathered near Lonmin's ...'

www.timeslive.co.za...

FK! thats all we need is a bunch of massacred women too.......theyll walk into the gunfire, mark my words...you do not piss off women with clubs...!
This is gonna get to the revolt stage sooner or later, and the boers will get it all back agaon.....right after the civil slaughter.

liveblog.mg.co.za...

7:52:43 am Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa said on Friday more than 30 miners were shot dead by the police. ”Police did everything they could… but people [miners] said they were not leaving and are prepared to fight,” he said in an interview with Talk Radio 702.

twitter.com...

Eyewitness News @ewnupdates
#Lonmin 6 days, 46 dead tinyurl.com/cj8f5pl

twitter.com...
John Robbie @702JohnRobbie
NUM Sec Gen Frans Baleni now on the show, telling us 36 have been killed #Lonmin.

Black morning here today.

I guess they don't think rubber bullets are good enough...sad day for all.

I can imagine the tensions they are facing on both sides. Where I live there have been many miners revolts, and I fear something like this. It is a pretty big deal. Loss of life makes it really bad though.

"From amongst the crowd, people opened fire on police and the police retaliated," he said in earlier comments re-broadcast on the same station.

Police crime scene investigators combed over the site of the shooting, which was cordoned off with yellow tape, collecting spent cartridges and bloodstained traditional weapons like machetes and spears which were carried by the slain miners. They said firearms were also recovered at the scene.

Mthethwa defended the police, saying officers had come under fire from the miners, members of the Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union (AMCU), an upstart group that is challenging the 25-year dominance of the National Union of Mineworkers (NUM), a close ally of the ruling ANC.

Source

This is a tragic event that took place.

It was a very volatile situation. This was not a peaceful protest with some posters and banners expressing their concerns. It was a violent situation. Like many protests are in SA. People seem to think that the protests they see in America or the UK are the same as protests down here. It sadly is not. These protests destroy private and public property, carrying weapons.

News sources here, and TV and Radio, seems to report that the police was fired upon first. They retaliated, and people got killed. The volatile situation coupled with the fact that the cops was outnumbered 10 to 1, probably all contributed to this tragic event.

vvv

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
The volatile situation coupled with the fact that the cops was outnumbered 10 to 1, probably all contributed to this tragic event.

Nope, 3000 miners and 3000 police. Which is wierd really?

Those guys all got their muti this week, no fear

Best for anyone who's interested to stream from here to get the story from all sides.

Talk 702

All i will say is: If i was a policeman and had a bunch of angry people run at me with pangas, i will have to defend myself. And i am totally against violence. What happened is shocking, looking at it from all perspectives.

In South Africa protests are "different" than the usual protest. Leave these protesters and they will take down anyone who is in the wrong place at the wrong time. These things get violent. These are workers that armed themselves with weapons, they are out for bloodshed.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Thanks VVV, I was hoping you would post in this thread. I understand it was not a normal protest or miners strike we are used to in Europe. That's why I didn't want to cast too much judgement not knowing enough about the issues involved. One thing for sure, it is a Tragic event.

reply to post by harryhaller


Where did you get that stats please?

vvv

www.saps.gov.za... URL=2086

SAPS official statement, Media circus 11h30 local time.

VvV Give me 5 i'll find it

EDIT:

www.iol.co.za... n-1.1364212#.UC36fmymDTo
Lonmin, the world's third-largest platinum producer, has threatened to sack 3,000 rock drill operators if they fail to end a wildcat pay strike that started on Friday at its flagship mine Marikana.

www.timeslive.co.za... n-striking-miners-several-dead
On Wednesday, up to 3,000 police officers, including members of an elite, camouflage-wearing riot control unit backed by helicopters and horses, confronted the striking rock-drill operators, but there were no clashes.

Both numbers were reported by several different reporters throughout the week.

Originally posted by harryhaller
www.saps.gov.za... URL=2086

SAPS official statement, Media circus 11h30 local time.

VvV Give me 5 i'll find it

Thanks man!!

I will keep an eye on this thread, and also on the media circus about to erupt.

vvv

I am not excusing the violence, but what good does peaceful protesting do? Maybe in the past, when it was a radical idea and it caught people unprepared it worked, but now, the establishment have had plenty of time to prepare and have new laws to render them ineffective. I don't know what the exact laws are in SA, but its evident that they realise peaceful protesting is pointless.

If the government did their job, and worked for the people rather than the corporations and themselves, then this situation would never have arisen. And what guarantee is there that the cops would not have got heavy handed even if they disarmed? If they expected people to disarm then they should have also disarmed. No way are angry people with a valid argument going to give way that easily.

I'm not going to tell you who told me this

Camo are the Special Task force
Black are the TRT , tactical response team
Berets are the NIU, national intervention unit

These weren't regular cops, these were the elites, who clearly had very specific instructions.

EDIT: Speaking of cops, the SAPS press statement posted earlier is no longer functioning.

This has been a very tragic series of events. Unfortunately, this was bound to happen as protesters in SA basically think they run the country and have every right to hold everyone else at ransom until their demands are met. They must not ever have expected police to fire live rounds of ammunition after the rubber bullets did nothing to calm the situation. Alternatively, they just didn't care. But, they must have expected a reaction.

I watched a local news show this morning where the police minister, Nathi Mthethwa, was interviewed telephonically about the situation, and he maintained that the police had control of the situation and had no choice but to fire live rounds. I don't entirely agree with that, even though the police did use their other options beforehand, but there is always a choice to not kill poeple.

On a side note, I believe that people who continue to protest in SA and think nothing of damaging property that does not belong to them and inconveniencing and putting others' lives at risk should be given common sense 101 lessons. As is happening in Cape Town, poeple are too easily swayed by others' politics and cannot think for themselves, and then proceed in causing chaos and trouble for everyone around.
I, for one, am very sick and tired of having to take detours and re-arrange my life because roads are closed due to people burning tyres and destroying traffic lights and causing damage, which the country then has to spend millions (from my tax money included) to fix again.
The mentality seems to be that it's easy to protest and demand a hand out from the government because it's owed to you, it's harder to go out and work for yourself and contribute to society.

I m not excusing the violence on either side. However, the miners are the ones who go down the mines and work in the tough conditions, to bring the valuable metals to the ground so the owners can sell them for huge profits. The Miners are paid $400 a month and can not afford to send their kids to school. They should be paid more.

reply to post by harryhaller


Yes, the camo ones are "the elite".

I ask myself: could i (you) have walked up that hill, where these protestors were "sitting", and walk away with no harm being done to us?

Originally posted by KaelemJames

I ask myself: could i (you) have walked up that hill, where these protestors were "sitting", and walk away with no harm being done to us?

From the photos and journos that were on the scene, they never had violence directed at them. A few of the men had been chosen as representatives to speak to media, which they did.

But that's not a few days ago, when the cops were attacked, would have been different then. You or i would not have returned alive.



EDIT: It's after 12 already and the presser hasn't started.

And parallel to the official press conference, the AMCU, who started all this trouble is now holding a press conference in morningside, which is walking distance from my office, where the same man who was yesterday shouting through a loudhailer that "we are prepared to die here" says:

twitter.com...
Mail & Guardian @MG_Reporter
Amcu president Joseph Mathunjwa calls on President Zuma to to institute a commission of inquiry to investigate the conduct of the police.

WTF?

#Lonmin New police commissioner Riah Phiyega confirms 34 dead and 78 injured.

Damn. Doesn't include the 2 cops or innocents killed beforehand.

#Lonmin Phiyega says one of guns found in the possession of slain protesters belonged to police officer killed in clashes.

That leaves 1 service pistol outstanding? (6 firearms in total found at the scene).

#lonmin Phiyega: More than 200 people have been arrested for various crimes.

But not the guy who incited the violence.

reply to post by harryhaller


They are busy with the statement, atm. Now they are saying 34 killed and 78 injured. They are saying they could see protestors attacking police from the police helicopter. Wonder if they will show us the footage.

And The Institute for Race Relations are calling for the immediate suspension of the police whom were involved in the shootings.

*You're much quicker in reporting the news, Harry