What would my grandad have known as a 3rd degree mason?

reply to post by network dude


Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
( Matthew 10: 32 -33 )

You keep on thinking that, yeah Jesus waits two hours, but youll wait an eternity. LOL. Funny isnt it.

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matt. 6:24)

Not to mention, you bow before the ' Worshipful Master ' at an alter, and declare you live in Darkness and seek the Light of Freemasonary? Really?

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

( John 1:5-8 )

Matthew 5:34-37, “I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one”

Originally posted by milkyway12
You keep on thinking that, yeah Jesus waits two hours, but youll wait an eternity. LOL. Funny isnt it.

The funny part is some zealot on ATS thinks he has the power to condemn others to eternal damnation. Talk about Blasphemy! With a tiny bit of arrogance to boot.

God bless you brother. I hope you don't spend your whole life thinking you are Jesus's executioner.


edit to add:
I cannot imagine how someone who claims to be a Christian can take pleasure in thinking someone else is going to hell. With "LOL. Funny isnt it" used in that way. If this is the way of Christ, I am damn glad I don't follow that logic.

I guess I'll just be happy knowing that I want the best for my brothers and sisters.

Enjoy your "faith".

Originally posted by milkyway12
you bow before the ' Worshipful Master '...

Actually you bow before God, the Master is still seated in the East when you are caused to kneel before the altar. Stop inventing things.

reply to post by network dude


I havent condemed you. Everything quoted has come straight from the Bible.

If you dont believe Yeshua (Jesus), then you have nothing to be worried about. If you are, you have everything to be worried about.

If you are a Christian, you have no business being a Mason, that is, if you are a real Christian, and just do not wear it as a face.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

Hmm, ringing true.. >.

reply to post by milkyway12

And I do pray to no one, but the King of Kings when I pray in or out of the Lodge.

GAOTU is not Yahweh.

Use only the names Yahweh has given us to use. I always ensure i use Yahweh, Yeshua, and Jesus in my prayers. Just for the comfort of my spirit. No matter who it offends.

To some it is. Who are you to say what is in my heart and what I am praying to? When I pray in Lodge, I pray to Christ.

GAOUT is a generic term for one to apply to the deity of the individual's faith.

Offerings are offered in respect to many ' supreme ' gods, because you believe Yahweh is one of the same of these false gods. He is not. Vishnu will not save you.

What offerings?

To some non-Christians, Vishnu...or at least his last avatar is the savior of mankind and cleanses the world of his demonic nemesis Kali (not to be confused with the Hindu goddess with the same name).

Hmmm, if you dont have a check in your spirit, you should start questioning whether you are under Jesus Christ .. or you are a Mason. You cannot be both.

I'm very confident in my faith, I just don't care what other MEN think. My relationship with God is the business of no one else, it is between God and I. Fanatics like you are one reason I don't attend church regularly. To the fanatical mind (a small box) it seems you must hate, I just can't be that. Far too many "christians" have taken the Christ out of the faith and replaced it with militancy, ignorance, fanaticism, and tyranny.

reply to post by milkyway12

Well, the title of "Worshipful" is old English for "one who is worthy of great respect". There is no worship of this officer. Nor do you bow down before him. You kneel at an altar while the Worshipful Master still holds his seat in the East.

Also, when we say we are in darkness, it is only in the context that we are in darkness in regards to the mysteries and secrets of Freemasonry, not anything else.

reply to post by milkyway12

You have condemned us, but now you're trying to hide.

I am both a Christian and a Freemason, and I have found nothing from each one that would contradict my beliefs in the other. The Masonic Chivalric Orders are some of the most beautiful and most personal ceremonies in all of Freemasonry, particularly the Order of the Temple. I have a particular great love for my Commandery of Knights Templar. This last year we were able to send off a local Minister to the Holy Land (we paid the airfare to and from NYC and the Grand Encampment pays the rest of the trip). We work with the DeMolay and Job's Daughter youth groups. I've also been rejuvenating the education and research programs in my area. Freemasonry can and does co-exist just fine with Christianity.

Very thorough response a star is deserved!

reply to post by KSigMason


Yes, i suppose i am a fanatic.

Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13-14

Yes, as it also seems, i do live in a very small box.

--------------------------

If you have not found any contradictory morals in Masonry through the word of God (for example a few verses i have posted), it seems it is up to the Holy Spirit to do his thing.

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Romans 14:1

reply to post by network dude


If you missed the sarcasm in relation to your, " He can wait two hours" comment, sorry ..

Originally posted by milkyway12
If you have not found any contradictory morals in Masonry...

It seems you found some contradictory morals in Christianity, ones that allow you to fabricate anecdotes to support a position against people with whom you do not agree. Very Jesus-like.

reply to post by milkyway12

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the definition of fanatic.

None of the verses you posted bear any contradiction between my faith and my fraternity. I'd say if anything, the Holy Spirit has guided me to and through Freemasonry.

My faith is strong. I don't need to attack others to validate my own though.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by GreatOwl

 

And yet Masons are only expelled at worst for breaking the rules.

Are there any living expelled Masons whom we can check this with? Or are they all dead?

reply to post by GreatOwl

 

They remain separate only to the ignorant.

Then the "Pope" must be one of the most ignorant men on the planet, since he has forbidden all Catholics from becoming Freemasons. Moreover, all the popes before him must have been just as ignorant, since they have all decreed the same.

I like it when some men set them selves up as the ones that know. It's a pity they never share that knowledge with the rest of us, so that we too can know, and be wise like them.

That's the darned thing about a "society with secrets."

reply to post by GreatOwl


Surely even masons are covered by their respective countries anti murder laws? In my opinion theres something dodgy about any society who see's the need to keep secrets from non members. Bit childish is it not?

reply to post by GreatOwl

There are plenty of expelled Masons, but I cannot reveal private information.

Then the "Pope" must be one of the most ignorant men on the planet, since he has forbidden all Catholics from becoming Freemasons.

I wouldn't say the most ignorant.

Moreover, all the popes before him must have been just as ignorant, since they have all decreed the same.

Actually its only been the Popes since 1738, not all of the Popes.

reply to post by BlueNose

Everyone has secrets.

reply to post by KSigMason


The Holy Spirit will not guide you through something that would deny scripture. As obviously, the few verses i posted, contradicts the fraternity.

You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I have revealed and saved and proclaimed-- I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "that I am God.

The bible clearly states you lied, when you told ' god ' you walk in darkness and need the light of Masonry. Jesus is the light, not ' Free Masonry '.

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Also, you do not take blood oaths. For the bible clearly states, anything more than yes or no is of the ' evil one '.

Also, the Holy Spirit would not lead you at any point of time to deny Jesus's name in prayer and use a ' General ' term for the name of god, which in the christian faith, has no authority given it through the Word of God.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

No, sir, the Holy Spirit is not leading you through Masonry. Unless the Holy Spirit lead you to ' Lie ', unless the Holy Spirit lead you to deny Christ in favor and reverence to another god, and unless the Holy Spirit lead you to take a blood oath in which the Word of God tells you never to do.

Or if a person swears thoughtlessly with his lips to do evil or to do good, in whatever matter a man may speak thoughtlessly with an oath, and it is hidden from him, and then he comes to know it, he will be guilty in one of these. 5‘So it shall be when he becomes guilty in one of these, that he shall confess that in which he has sinned.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

"Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35

"For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?" 2 Samuel 22:32

I just dont understand how you cant ... see.

edit on 26-8-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Regarding the original post, and setting aside the ridiculous anti-masonic sentiment in this thread, to answer the original question - A 3rd degree Mason would be considered a Master Mason as others have mentioned. With the advent of the internet, you can now read the Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, and Master Mason degrees online, which would shed some light on the degrees your grandfather attended.

The degrees themselves would have taken place in a Masonic Lodge or "Masonic Temple", and the initiation into the Master Mason degree would have been a major milestone in your grandfather's life assuming he was a serious candidate into the mysteries of Masonry.

Once you read the degrees, you would have to actually visit a Lodge in person to see the fellowship, camaraderie, friendship, and long-standing personal relationships developed among Lodge brethren. The closeness and fellowship is genuine, and cannot be described in reading a ritual book. Reading the rituals will at least give you a context.

If, in fact, your grandfather was raised to the sublime degree of a Master Mason in the Grand Lodge of England as I believe you suggested, then he would have been raised in the English tradition of Masonry, which is quite similar but has some slight differences from American Masonry.

You might consider actually visiting the Lodge where he was raised to the degree of a Master Mason, or looking up the Lodge online if the Lodge is too remote from your current residence. Call them, write them, send them an e-mail that you would like to learn more.

Regarding the sentiments regarding having to be "rich" to be a Mason, these sentiments are false, and quite preposterous. I became a Master Mason in my twenties with only a few hundred dollars to my name. I was hardly rich then. You need to make enough money to pay the Lodge dues - about $75-80 per year. Most people can afford the Lodge dues. Each initiation costs roughly $100-150 - so for about $300 you could become a Master Mason. There are few, if any other costs associated with membership. A membership in Masonry is inexpensive compared to joining most any other organization, such as country clubs, sports clubs, etc.

Originally posted by KSigMason

Actually its only been the Popes since 1738, not all of the Popes.

Well, of course, smart guy, Freemasonry only began in 1717.

Originally posted by BlueNose
reply to post by GreatOwl

 

Surely even masons are covered by their respective countries anti murder laws? In my opinion theres something dodgy about any society who see's the need to keep secrets from non members. Bit childish is it not?

Who is going to arrest that mason? The chief of police is probably a mason and required to protect a brother.

Who is going to judge that mason? The chief judge is probably a mason and required to protect a brother.

Who is going to jail that mason? The chief jailer is probably a mason and required to protect a brother.

And since they all keep these things secret, what would the outsiders know about any of this?

What would be interesting to know is whether there are any masons at all in jail. Is such a thing even possible?

Seems like a paradox or contradiction to use the words "Free" and "Prison" together, so there must be a reason the masons consider themselves "FREE-masons."

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Regarding the sentiments regarding having to be "rich" to be a Mason, these sentiments are false, and quite preposterous.

You did manage to write a lot there without actually answering the question of what would his grandfather have "known" as a 3rd degree mason. In typical evasive masonic style the essential question is avoided, and a rant of meaningless dribble entered in it's place.

And yes, I'm aware that some people join masonry who are not rich, but they are not true masons, because they are unable to fulfill the most basic charge to be charitable. There's an interesting book in print out there that goes by the title:

Beware the Naked Man Who Offers You His Shirt

www.amazon.com...

Likewise, beware any mason who has nothing actually to give.

reply to post by GreatOwl

I never said that. 1717 was just the establishment of the first Grand Lodge, but there are plenty of records that Lodges existed prior to that, but no Papal Bull against Freemasonry came until 1738...that is just fact.

You did manage to write a lot there without actually answering the question of what would his grandfather have "known" as a 3rd degree mason. In typical evasive masonic style the essential question is avoided, and a rant of meaningless dribble entered in it's place.

I'm afraid you are mistaken, my friend. I stated quite precisely what his grandfather would have known: Specifically, he would have been intimately familiar with the 3 degrees, all of which are publicly available online or at your local library. The degrees are the main "work" of the Lodge, and certainly his grandfather would have participated in these degrees for the majority of his time in Masonry.

And yes, I'm aware that some people join masonry who are not rich, but they are not true masons, because they are unable to fulfill the most basic charge to be charitable.

Again, you are misinformed. One may be charitable in more ways than donating money. In fact, our Lodge has done a number of charitable activities that did not involve financial donations in any way whatsoever. As a simple example, our Lodge constructed and maintained a local public playground not far from where the Lodge was located. No Lodge members incurred a single dime's worth of expense aside from sweat equity and manual labor.

All Masonic brethren are "on the level", which means that Masonry pays no respect towards material riches. A Mason may be rich, or poor, and yet we are all equal brothers within the fraternity. To suggest that one must possess "material riches" to be a member of the fraternity is a false statement. You are simply misinformed, or engaged in the spreading of false rumors that are quite easily refuted.

reply to post by milkyway12

Nothing in Freemasonry denies the Scripture and nothing you posted contradicts the fraternity.

Not it doesn't state that I lied. Just being Christian doesn't mean you know everything about everything. In regards to Freemasonry you are in darkness; we never said you were in spiritual darkness, even though from your words it seems you very much are. It is very obvious it would be useless to discuss as you are completely ignorant to enlightenment and spirituality in general.

In Freemasonry you don't take blood oaths as that would require the spilling of blood at the taking of the oath, which doesn't occur in Freemasonry.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say we have to say Jesus's name. When I pray I pray to Christ and you cannot say otherwise nor can you say where the Holy Spirit has or has not led me. Just because you don't agree with my actions doesn't mean God hasn't led me that way.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

You're right, so mind your own business.

None of the rest of the quotes contradict my time in Freemasonry. I still believe in Christ, no other beliefs are pushed on me, and I don't need to say Christ every two seconds to know he is in my heart.

I don't need to rub my beliefs in other people's faces or denigrate other beliefs to validate my own.

reply to post by GreatOwl

Yes, everyone in the judicial and law enforcement is a Mason. BWAHAHAHAHAHA