Why does the Universe exist?

Originally posted by ImaFungi

how do you explain the infinite complexity of this simple reality?

The same way human life can be explained from simple atoms building into more complex cells, muscles, tissues, organs, et cetera.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

how do you explain all the purposes of things that exist? in ideas of metaphysical, philosophical, archetypical, geometry, dimension, can a reason, purpose, meaning, value ever exist?

There is none and there never will be unless an intelligent mind choose to see those things as purposeful, then it will having meaning... but only in that mind, not in reality where things just exist.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

or there is nothing that can ever be real?,,, anything that ever exists must be arbitrary and not grounded in anything absolute for absolutes are impossible to ever/always exist?

I'm not claiming that nothing can ever be real, nor am I claiming whether or not absolutes exist. I don't know the answer to those, but the purpose question - I am completely sure of.

Astronomer Royal Martin Rees turns his attention to the structure of the universe, examining the perceived building blocks of life - atoms. However, he suggests they only actually account for five per cent of the mass of the universe, prompting a discussion with leading luminaries in the field, such as Professor Steven Weinberg and Professor Max Tegmark, about what makes up the remainder, often referred to as dark matter

this is a very educational documentary that tries to explain why we are here from a scientific view. Very illuminating

I think you already answered you're own question without knowing it.. let me give you some understanding of what i mean by this..

The universe it's self is a self contained thing yet it is "self" observing via you.. So in order for WHY would a universe exist would be in order for you to Observe it... Sound strange well not so..

If you look at Physics then it becomes easy to understand that our existence is just the same as the atom.. Observed and Observer come into play here.. hence the part in the middle called reality.

We are in a constant flux of energy and levels of interaction that cancel each other out forming realities...

The problem is not why, but the problem of what do you intend on doing next?... If the universe can and did indeed make life, that what would be its reason? well its quite simple

Replication of the system

We are here to make it work and make more of them via our very own interaction.

Hope that helped.

Cheers

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Kashai

 

Science claims rationality, yet discounts one possibility. That is not rational at all. A creator is the most rational thought we posses, especially in light of clues left for us in symbolism and linguistics. Not only this, but sacred geometry screams for us to see the relationship between numbers and meaning on higher dimensions of existence. Consider the irony in the connections I make in the thread linked below.

You might say there are no connections, yet the story told in the Bible continues to be mirrored in all of our stories, within the related morphology of linguistics and in the actuall story that unfolds before our eyes. It's hard to deny and takes more faith to say it is false. For something that is hidden and a mystery, the enigma of the Bible just keeps on revealing itself. The law of inverse squares says that the more we know, the more we see the source of what we study. Is this happening?

THREAD to EXAMINE

edit on 17-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

My impression is that there is really no difference between the person who presented as,
Jesus Christ or Krishna and so on from the point in there parallel intents..


Simply stated these, cultures are so separated, a common perspective relates to a God that found a way to communicate with all of them.

I see that as within Gods power and these parallels as being the result of Gods influence in every separate case.

"Symbols have more than one meaning"

Yes they do, in the context of God there may be an infinite number of meanings one can comprehend and still understand the same God.


Angelic Resurrection

I am asking for opinions and discourse upon why the Universe was created.

reply to post by 1littlewolf


For me reality is a consistency we only perceive enough off, to survive, develop technology, as we understand today and begin to explore what we are beyond that. Considering that the Universe is Gods body, is not for me an inconsistency, though i would offer that awareness allows a life form to go beyond the sum of its parts.


arpgme

The quality of Existence is "To Exist". That is it.

Once you start asking "Why", that becomes a question that can only be formulated by the brain and does not exist in this simple reality.

We can find out "How" the universe came to exist, but never "Why" because there is no purpose, existence only has one quality and that is - to exist.

What eveidence do you have for a simple Universe?

reply to post by Kashai

.

Angelic Resurrection

I am asking for opinions and discourse upon why the Universe was created.

What is God's motivation. It's a very simple truth. In a perfected state, the image of God is like looking in a mirror at Himself. Any artificial image that God creates is merely a reflection of Himself making two of Him in balance. We can view the Father and Holy Spirit as a male and female duality in this way. Each aspect is a full complement to the other. Simply saying this is not sufficient to conceptualize this, yet our archetypes are this aspect of force and guidance. The third is the Son in the trinity. This represents unity and the perfection in the triangle. From the one comes multiplicity, yet we are told that the first Image was the Son in perfection. Again, God is looking in a mirror at Himself three ways. It's not until these aspects are broken into multiplicity that we get a true look at why God allowed error into perfection. Unity implies balance and multiplicity implies division. Why?

This is the beauty in what God did. He took what was first earned and gave it as a gift to the unimaginable universe at large. The answer is variety. There is a Hebrew concept known as bread of shame. Bread of shame is receiving with no ability to give back. What does God receive that he needs? Nothing. He is already filled to full. The point of giving is what you share. For God, an image that is not His own reflection in perfection is an image that can express autonomous uniqueness in quality and expression. Infinity demands that there is no end. A God in perfect balance is Newton's law implied to God.

An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

Imagine God deciding to move and there is a contradiction. God is Eternal. Nothing moves God and God does not move. At rest is a good way to describe Eternal. There can only be one Eternal Infinite thing. Within that thing, movement can occur as a process of a void. Open a void and then collapse the Eternal into an indeterminate state. The artificial image produced can then collapse a frame from two dimensions above his own state to determine an outcome in the middle. Each of these are in slices. Imagine God above the probable states of a geometric dimension below.

One dot moves in a line until it reaches the next dot. This line moves across to make the first flat plain. So far, a slice at a time is observed. This plain moves into a three dimensional object, yet this time, there is a choice to add variation to the form as it adds a slice at a time (like a CT scan). Now that on object is made, make many more in archetype. The next dimension is one slice of movement for each object. The next dimension is the choices that are possible. The next dimension reflects the law that governs the probable dimension below as a guardian against movement that harms and toward movement that produces positive results.

From here, determine a destiny of movement that allows for the states of creation to move on their own. Overall, this destiny will tell a story. The story will describe the one producing the reality and each element of the dimensions below will follow an overall format that is unimaginable in scope and sequence. Each element will be governed by properties and laws that can be combined in an endless variety of form and function by an unimaginable source of intelligent energy. The source is eternal and the void is collapsed from the source by the first observer and consciousness of infinity.

So far, I am proceeding along a path dictated by Hebrew Mystic tradition. Each step of creation sees an overall government formed, a hierarchy of servants and an overall plan that includes a crowing achievement in design. Mankind is the image of the Son. The Son is the macrocosm and mankind is the microcosm image of the original. The Universe and Man are images above and below of the One God. The Son is God in movement. The Father is God Eternal and separate from the void that is filled. Fellowship occurs between the two looking through the image.

Why?

Love. The will to give and receive. For free will to be possible and Eternal Consciousness to be free, Evil must be part of the experience. Autonomy must come from a choice other than the originator of the universe. To reflect the Creator, the created is given an equal and balanced opportunity to choose between wills.

The will to give and receive and the will to take. If we reflect the proper will, we rise. If we reflect the will to be a thief, law governs our choices with debt and accountable outcomes. In the end, the veil is removed and we see God as He sees us. Multiplicity returns to unity with fellowship and stories to tell. The journey was the point for us and the unexpected is what is in it for God.

Acts 17

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

We reach to Him in love as he reached for us in the same manner. I assume the entire universe is either for us or just like us. If you read Ephesians closely, you will see the mystery revealed. There are families in Heaven. Heaven is the Kingdom of God and the Universe at large. At some point, we inherit this as our birth right as Sons of God. We can only be a Son through Christ. We are adopted into this higher family by overcoming Earth, Air, Water and Fire. Spirit is the crown of this achievement, yet Christ is the only one who could lead us out. Christ is the Son. Soul and Spirit must become one in love.

We were made to Seek God. There is a promise for those who succeed.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I'm sorry. I am not a typical "one line post" kind of guy. But I have to say....that was fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.

Thank you for sharing. Very much.

Originally posted by Parksie

I hope you are not optimistic about reincarnation.
A perfect prison is one where you die there to be reborn and killed again there.

Imprisoned in an infinite universe of unfathomable beauty….

Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Why would any being capable of actually capable of imprisoning an innumerous number of souls within a material plane even bother in the first place?

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

Why would any being capable of actually capable of imprisoning an innumerous number of souls within a material plane even bother in the first place?

its a mystery with the capping stone or the prison door being the time dimension

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Now that one truly Rings The Bell! What a lovely expression of the Truth. You did a great job of getting that into words--- Beautiful--- Thank you so much.

Did you see my post where I was sharing a free book for everyone here? I think you would like this book very much---not that you need to 'learn' much (seems you have had some very true revelations) ---but I think this would just be a very joyful read for you:

You can find it here ( a free down load pdf):


www.booksinthelight.com...

It is a gift from Lachlen he is a friend of mine. Enjoy and keep up the Good Work or should I say Good Word.

reply to post by Kashai


Why does the Universe exist

Uh... Does anybody really knows? I mean, here are some of the possible answers:

The Laws Of Karmic Attraction Sneezed From Its Third New Age Eye
or
God Created It, But No One Knows Who Created Him.
or
With A Big Explosion Which Challenge Logic And Current Physics Because It means Faster-Than-Light Expansion, Called The Big Bang Theory
or
Because The Architect In The Matrix Movie Decided So, So then He Could Play And Kill Everyone in it 7 Times
or many more, including my personnal favourite,
Because The Universal Teacup Of Osiris Spilled Onto Our Metaphysical Plane of Being

Sounds good. I will take a look. I really enjoy the Gospel of Thomas. Here's a thread I did on part of it.

LINK

Originally posted by Sweetmystery
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Now that one truly Rings The Bell! What a lovely expression of the Truth. You did a great job of getting that into words--- Beautiful--- Thank you so much.

Did you see my post where I was sharing a free book for everyone here? I think you would like this book very much---not that you need to 'learn' much (seems you have had some very true revelations) ---but I think this would just be a very joyful read for you:

You can find it here ( a free down load pdf):


www.booksinthelight.com...

It is a gift from Lachlen he is a friend of mine. Enjoy and keep up the Good Work or should I say Good Word.

reply to post by Kashai


I hope you're not looking for anyone to have all the answers. But I do have a few that might help you make a few better judgments about your understanding.

This, our universe, exists within a timeless dimension. That timeless dimension, of course, has a completely different set of laws. The timeless dimension is, what we would best be able to call it (as our physical bodies are only able to interpret information within a particular range) is a spiritual dimension.

SO, before this physical universe in which we live, there was and is a timeless spiritual dimension. Because that dimension is the precursor to this universe, then is it also not understood that all the potential and possibilities that exist within this universe are also all potential and possibilities that exist within the spiritual realm? But the spiritual realm has MORE potential and possibilities. This physical universe and all its --seemingly-- infinite possibilities are only a subset of the possibilities in the timeless spiritual dimension.

So...

Because the dimension within which our universe resides is the timeless spiritual dimension and it has all the possibilities of this universe and more, and also remembering that "timeless" means that all possibilities must exist at the "same time" in the timeless spiritual dimension, and also knowing that consciousness is a possibility in our universe, and therefore a definite in the timeless spiritual dimension within which our universe resides, and therefore consciousness must be fully integrated into the timeless spiritual dimension as all possibilities that exist at the "same time" in that dimension must be fully integrated; and also knowing that the universe within which we reside certainly had a beginning, which means this universe is not "timeless" (until it has been fully integrated into the dimension within which the universe resides), then one should easily be able to come to a reasonable conclusion.

I will attempt to show some "math" that might help some people to visualize what I am describing.

infinity = infinitely vast (spiritual) X eternity (timeless)

our universe = space X time (as we know it)

space X infinity = infinitely vast
time X infinity = eternity

It should be easy to see that we defines our universe is its spatial and temporal state of being.

space X time X infinity = spiritual timeless dimension

Is it possible that space and time are a part of infinity? Why yes! Infinity implies all possibilities.

So therefore, Infinity also has space and time as attributes. They just function much differently on account of all the other possibilities.

Imagine being in a submarine in the middle of the pacific ocean.

Now imagine the submarine is the universe. Then the ocean is the spiritual timeless dimension. This is more a simile than a metaphor because the comparison is valid although not necessarily accurate still, because the ocean is not infinite (but we can perceive it to be when we are in the middle of it!)

Now I have thoroughly discussed the how... which it seems you and everyone else were truly interested in talking about based on all the responses.

But the question "why" is a much more complicated and maybe even, without wisdom, a much more abstract problem for those who consider themselves "scientific".

Theoretically, one might believe that the reason why the universe exists is so that the spiritual timeless dimension can be made manifest within its subset, the universe, so that it can create a new state of existence wherein all possibilities are made instantly tangible and measurable - sort of a "timeless physical dimension". Of course, the spiritual timeless dimension already exists within our universe, but it only exists mainly in the form of potential still. But imagine a dimension where all things are both full of potential and kinetic energy at the same time. A strange way of describing this is to imagine that there is a gentleman that exists within the theoretical dimension I am describing. This gentleman would simply cause a tomato appear into his hand with as little effort as he uses to breathe. It could be completely involuntary or voluntary. But this is a simile, not a metaphor, as the example is good, but still not completely accurate to the true understanding of the idea.

But one who is wise, meaning not entirely scientific (as science today is just like the political party system today - the words stay the same but the definitions keep changing), are capable of discerning the reality.

The universe was created to give us, the living creatures of this universe, a place to grow so that we represent the physical glory of life; to be married to the spiritual glory of life; a marriage of the universe to the spiritual timeless dimension, to create the ultimate existence. God is uniting us to His perfection for all glory.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I went to your Gospel of Thomas thread. That was really excellent. Most of the responders had some really good things to contribute too. I felt like posting some comments there and bringing it back again. What do you think? Should we try to resurrect it?

My friend does this same sort of interpreting in his book www.booksinthelight.com... "Gospel Of Thomas" ---I am glad you are going to go check it out--- I think you will like it a lot---but, I can see that your understanding is the same as his. He just really gave himself to do a whole book. He includes history and all sorts of other interesting.

The Gospel of Thomas obviously is revealing things transcend the conventional thought. Understanding what is really being spoken of in The Gospel of Thomas is a big help to those who feel so untrusting (and well they should) of both authoritarian government and religions---and yet want to still keep God and the Christly Truth in their life.

Well, keep shining your Light!

I'll only say two words and that will be all: To exist.

I am amazed....
at how this is still in the science and tech forum.

I usually don't complain about this stuff... but this thread is not about science, or scientific evidence.

This thread is, and has continued as a metaphysical though exercise.

There is a proper forum for this.


But, I digress... as I stated earlier, this Universe exists because of probability.
As the multiverse theory explains, we are just one of many universes and we only exist here because we are able to, due to the right circumstances.

I will restate, the Universe exists because there is probability that it will, or it would not.
Most likely this is not the only Universe. Many more will exist and disappear, without us knowing.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
I am amazed....
at how this is still in the science and tech forum.

I usually don't complain about this stuff... but this thread is not about science, or scientific evidence.

This thread is, and has continued as a metaphysical though exercise.

There is a proper forum for this.


But, I digress... as I stated earlier, this Universe exists because of probability.
As the multiverse theory explains, we are just one of many universes and we only exist here because we are able to, due to the right circumstances.

I will restate, the Universe exists because there is probability that it will, or it would not.
Most likely this is not the only Universe. Many more will exist and disappear, without us knowing.

you gave the least scientific answer to the OP........ "Because".....

This Topics question could very well be constructed in the opposite fashion but still have the same meaning. That being...Why would there not be a Universe or in actuality...Multiverse?

Split Infinity

I understand this is a scientific thread, and USUALLY i do not even read the religious comments, but the last sentence by EnochWasRight should be noted. I will explain later. (By the way i am NOT religious).

"We are made to seek God"

Some people had replies like "to exist" etc...but there is certainly more to it. To "only exist" or experience life in this universe, we would NOT need any significant intellectual capabilities. In fact, one could argue that "to exist", we could even do this as a plant, or maybe even as something inorganic as a rock.

Think about it why the universe was "born" (whether Big Bang or cyclic, doesn't matter for this debate)...from that hypothetical BB galaxies, planets etc. have formed - and then subsequentially life. (Where i am personally convinced that the process of "life creation" should happen all over the universe).

But it doesn't stop with that some simple life forms are created by some "law of the universe"...but instead, extremely complex life-forms (humans!) are evolving at some point. Beings, which have the intellectual ability to actually WONDER and trying to explain their own origin and existence.

Short: In the universe there is/was a process at work which ultimately resulted in an intelligence which is self-aware and aware of the universe itself. (Us humans). What is the driving force behind this? Why is "the universe" becoming "self-aware" so to speak?

Which then of course leads to the legit question if this MIGHT even be the main motive for the creation of the universe itself - that at one point, the universe, out of plain matter etc. bears, in fact, intelligence, enabling it to ask all those questions in the first place.

It is really difficult NOT to get into esoteric/spiritualistic aspects there..but if you think about it you will hopefully understand.

The philosophy of science is concerned with the assumptions, foundations, methods, and implications of science. It is also concerned with the use and merit of science and sometimes overlaps metaphysics and epistemology by exploring whether scientific results are actually a study of truth. In addition to these central problems of science as a whole, many philosophers of science also consider problems that apply to particular sciences (e.g. philosophy of biology or philosophy of physics). Some philosophers of science also use contemporary results in science to reach conclusions about philosophy.

en.wikipedia.org...

For those of you seeking scientific career's, it is required as a part of your Masters program.

i would commend all of you for your efforts in this thread. The discourse has been enlightening and interestingly enough, free of rancor and angst. The truth be known there are many Priest, Monks and even some Shamans who are also scientist, are and have always been a part of the debate that is science.

Lets take the example of the effect upon electron spin upon space/time, literally a wake is generated. This being no different than the effect of throwing a stone into a pond. In this way, events of the past are represented in the present.


Any thoughts?