What was God doing before creation and why did he wait an eternity to create the Universe.

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by DCLXVI

 

You assume there is 'time' in eternity by using the word 'wait'...
...nothing 'waits' in eternity ... everything is present at once.

I am fully aware that there is no time before the creation of time but it is the only way to put it in words other than :

Why WAS God for eternity before the Big Bang.

Also, the present is just the passing of the past to the future. If there is no time there is also no present, so everything cannot be present at once like you said. Although i understand what you meant, this shows how you made the same mistake i made by using the word "wait". We lack the words to fully express ourselves on this subject.

Originally posted by Glass

Originally posted by DCLXVI
Our premise is that God created the Universe starting with the Big Bang and then followed cosmological evolution that eventually lead to biological evolution and to humans.

We assume that the universe began because our mortal lives have a beginning. We assume that time is linear because we percieve time in a linear order. We assume the universe will eventually end because we are aware of our mortality.

What if I told you that there was no beginning and there will be no end, and that our universe has been expanding and contracting for eternity? This would imply that there was a beginning to our current cycle of the universe, the Nth iteration which "currently" exists, and that this cycle will eventually end, but also that before and after this cycle there have been an infinite number of other cycles of expansion and contraction...

But that falls outside of the scope of your question

God being eternal WAS for an eternity before the creation of the Universe. This means that at the moment of Creation he had BEEN for an eternity. Why wait an eternity? what was he doing?

Its hard for me to go back to this way of thinking; the idea that there was an eternity of "nothingness" before the universe was created. However it makes sense to me that "before" the universe existed that space and time did not exist, at least not as we know it...both are properties of this universe. I find it plausible that, if the universe hasn't existed in an eternal cycle, then the universe may have been created within a higher universe, or by interactions of other universes, and that time and space existed before, outside of this universe...but this is purely speculative stuff. In any case, no matter how many levels of existence there are I'm quite certain that it's all contained within a higher mind.

Anyway, I want to talk about time...

Here is a graphical representation using ASCII characters to show how we percieve the flow of time:

(-infinity)(end)

Fairly simple. From an objective linear standpoint all things can be seen to have a beginning and an end and all events in between. The present moment progresses from the beginning to the end of the event, one moment at a time:

Moment 1, 2, 3... Final moment

But what if we remove time from the equation? Try to imagine all the moments within an event happening at once.
For example, imagine yourself swatting a mosquito.
The initial moment would be the moment at which you notice the mosquito.
Then you bring your hand to a raised position to initiate the swatting motion.
Then you bring your hand down.
Your hand makes contact and crushes the mosquito.
In this event there are an innumerable amount of instantaneous moments, each one differing almost immeasurably from the last.
Try to imagine what it would look like if you superimpose each moment in this event into the space of one moment.
Your arm would be like a blur beginning at its original position and ending on top of the mosquito.

Now take this principle and imagine the entire universe, from beginning to end, superimposed as one moment.

This is what I imagine:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/wy50289844.jpg[/atsimg]

Pure light/energy

But that is only because my perception is limited to the mortal senses. We see only light through our eyes. Try to imagine being able to see the universe as one moment with perfect piercing clarity, down to each individual particle and its motion and being able to differentiate between particles and their motions...truly mind blowing stuff.

Understanding this is one of the keys to understanding the nature of God. Without time there is no before and no after, no beginning and no end.

I am sorry but we do not assume that the Universe had a beginning because we are mortals being with a beginning. We KNOW the Universe had a beginning because of what we call SCIENCE.

If you wish to know all the scientific evidence that points to a moment of creation ill gladly reply back.

Other thn that, very interesting reply. Thank you.

It has to be a perpetual circle...When our universe ends...It begins again...I think these because it kinda makes sense. Now who started the wheel going is another story..

Close your eyes and has hard as it is, imagine you have no future and you have no past. Just now. See where you are? That's what god was doing outside of time

Probably regurgitating this thread I barely read
But, seems to me that there was this giant aquarium containing nothing but a vacuum of emptiness and measuring the size 1,000,000,000 "universes".
Then somehow a ready pack of "elements" are dumped into this giant aquarium. This ready pack of "Advanced Level Whatever Creator" consists of all the known elements from what we call the Periodical Table of Elements.
Wait a while (however long that is for whoever would be viewing or experiencing) and then you will start to see the secret patented Gravity Force hard at work.
Experience "Nuclear Fusion and Fission", "Big Bangs" and Liquids, Solids and Gasses. Also "Weather", "Electricity" and Volcanoes!
However, there is this one slight problem, nothing to really worry too much about though.
Bacteria.
Bacteria is a thing that will eventually start to develop as a side effect of the Weather and Electricity.
This Bacteria will start off small but will soon advance into all manners of what you could call "Life".
These things will develop complex intelligence systems and sometimes devices.

However, being that the creation of the Sacred Element Gold is the goal of this experiment and since Gold is created out of star explosions and the element is thus buried into the crust of Planets, this Bacteria may in time come in handy.
Perhaps these advanced Lifeforms could expedite the extraction of the Sacred Element.

Just my thoughts on God, suddenly.

Smoking pot, eating tab's of '___', and listening to Pink Floyd "Dark side of the Moon" on repeat.

How else can you explain all the messed up creations he supposedly made?

He was busy with his boyfriend, and after that got ugly he HAD to entertain himself somehow!!!

Originally posted by charles1952

Perhaps there was no time before the creation, at least as we know time.

I think this is as close as we'll get to any sort of fathomable answer

Do you want to talk to the Gods?

There never was a creation. All infinite structures, realms and existences never began, cannot end. Anomalous groupings of finite structures such as our current KNOW Universe, encased by infinite realms and structures, are but harmonics caused by time (all the future) into space (infinitesimal duration present as a string of instances at Planck rate of frequency), then space back into time (all the past) transitions.

God, omniscience, cannot change. To possess awareness of change, so as to be truely ALL, finite exists as proxies, animate and inanimate, and all are used as tools whether they want to or not, whether they are aware of it or not.

It is the finite existences choice to become aware of this proxy relationship and join in the flow of communion.

reply to post by DCLXVI


Dear DCXLXVI,

What a wonderful question. While none can completely understand God, in my humble opinion, we can understand consciousness, which we all have. What were we before we became self aware and what are we now. I start with the understanding that we are emotions and not thoughts, thoughts require symbols. Helen Keller had no language when she was young and not "thoughts" as we would define them; but, she had emotional experiences that changed over time.

Perhaps God is the totality of all emotional experience in the universe, all that exists. It is my belief that he simply was a series of emotional experiences that found language, a way for describing to himself what he was. In the Old Testament he gives his name, I Am. A simple recognition that there was a self awareness and that it had meaning. While I do preach as a Christian, I view God as bigger than I can ever understand completely. A self aware being that knows all that can be known today; but, is capable of knowing more in the same way that the universe is capable of expanding.

We exist, we are self aware, this cannot be by accident and cannot be created nor destroyed, it simply is. How do we deal with it. The same truth exists for God, he is and must find a solution to the question of eternity. How does one exist for eternity and not live in hell because of boredom? We cannot even imagine eternity, it is too much for humans; but, God must address the question and I believe he did. He created us and let us define ourselves, no stasis; but, instead, constant self determination.

This is not gnostic thinking, it is Christian and most don't bother asking the hard questions about what and who God is; but, if we are honest, we must ask the eternity question. The difference between heaven and hell is the difference between being alone for eternity and choosing to interact with other self aware beings. Now here is a question for you to consider. The gnostics and New Age believers (and others) believe we return to being God, that we are all one and the same. Would that answer the eternity question, I don't believe it would.

The options for answering eternity without eternal hell, without eternal solitary confinement. In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was God and God means "I Am". He didn't wait to create eternity, it was and he didn't wait to create the universe, it was, it was him, all that existed and he allowed us to be part of it, hope. Not hope for no pain, we started from one, we started from solitary confinement and found a solution that reduced sorrow, it did not eliminate it, sorrow is and hope is also.

Before God created us, he was learning about himself and our lives are about learning about ourselves. That is my answer. Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


Thank you for this excellent reply. I too believe that consciousness is the key. About eternity, i view it as the state i was in before my birth, eternally non-existent. After i die, i might be eternally non-existent again, or perhaps once life is given, it becomes eternally existent. I do not know.

Originally posted by TimesUp
Do you want to talk to the Gods?

I am way to scared of what is in my mind to ever do any psychedelic drug.

reply to post by DCLXVI


Dear DCLXVI,

Perhaps we get to choose. We all need a break sometimes. What if the break was time with someone else that cared more about us than we did about ourselves? True love, a giving love. We can call it God or we can call it perfect concern over another. What if, and just what if, we could choose how much love we could give until we gave more than was right, until we were taken advantage of? And what if we could know as much as truth as we could handle and could always learn more? Some thoughts.

Originally posted by wash777
Very interesting question OP, I have no answer for, but thank you for giving me something interesting to think about! I guess I lean toward the multiple creations theory. God has probably watched more than one creation destroy itself. Just guessing.

I think you may be right about that theory.

We as humans on a whole really don't now much about what is beyond the sphere of this planet , and even then, most of us know very little about what actually transpires on this planet.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

In Eternity there is no time

This is a false assumption, something that is eternal is forever, for something to be forever (forever is synonymous to eternal) there is the implied passing of time, there is a correlation between infinitum and eternity both are never ending progressions. This does not force that inside an eternal event time needs to exist (it may or may not), but to the observer that is classifying it as eternal it must.

We can even state that since human experiences known as individuals or as a collective are time limited any attempt to classify something as eternal is at best a guest, in reality nothing is truly infinite outside of mathematical concepts that do not only require an observer (notices new events) but that it acts as a counter (records past events).

If God exists outside of our universe and time, that doesn't mean he/she/it (I'll refer to it as he or his) doesn't have a universe in which he lives. Perhaps God is a scientist in his own universe and we are his grand experiment. Perhaps he is a child and we are his plaything or maybe we are one big simulation. One thing I've learned though, life is almost always stranger than what I first perceive. It is great though and if there is a God I hope he knows how lucky I feel to be here.

Originally posted by FractalChaos13242017
reply to post by r2d246

 

Wait... what?

I guess I see how that kinda addresses what's going on here...

But cmon, you posted an entire section of scripture that is about an enemy of Israel... more propaganda for despotism... and just to toss this in there... The whole space reference, such as Pleiades and Orion and the cubs and what not has to do with agriculture.

Leviathan is an interesting figure or character(anthropomorphism?)...

I'm still on the fence about what the references of Leviathan truly represent... so if you have any information that would be cool.

I guess it matters who's version is being referenced...

Anyways... back to the main reason for my reply. What you presented isn't really addressing the question... at least this is my understanding of it...

I could be wrong, so let me know and explain it further, rather than just posting a wall of text.

The point of it is WE DON'T KNOW SHEAATT, DON'T YOU SEE???? It's plain as day. We have to put our trust in something while we can. The best bet there is, and your gutt instinct confirms it, is Jesus. That's it plain and simple. We have to humble ourselves, shake off our pride, ego, vanity that's controling us and accept that fact that we were created by almighty God and we need to align ourselves with him, be his friend, learn to build a loving relationship with the loving Father above. And he will take care of us, show us the way, teach us, open our minds and make the future a bright and prosperous thing. If we deni him things will only get worse. And if we die without knowing him there's hell to pay.

reply to post by r2d246


I was going to reply in length but it is all so nonsensical that I resume it to a protest against one of you tirades...

And if we die without knowing him there's hell to pay.

What do you figure the fate of humanity before the diffusion of the bible and the "probable" (I can grant you that) appearance of Christ on Earth and the spread of Christianism ?

Even Christians do not refute that the world predates Christianism. So why the delay in providing the instruction manual ? and continuing on that logic why make it a human creation ?

I do have high regard for the beliefs of others and religion in general. Faith is a very powerful tool, but if one dismisses logic, faith becomes destructive. Blind faith can be defined as core of all evil.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by DCLXVI

 

Dear DCXLXVI,

What a wonderful question. While none can completely understand God, in my humble opinion, we can understand consciousness, which we all have. What were we before we became self aware and what are we now. I start with the understanding that we are emotions and not thoughts, thoughts require symbols. Helen Keller had no language when she was young and not "thoughts" as we would define them; but, she had emotional experiences that changed over time.

I don't believe that for a second! Helen Keller didn't have language to put her thoughts into words, but she had thoughts, the same as you or I. Thoughts are not language based. They are pictures, so to speak. Helen Keller knew how to get what she wanted. She played tricks on people and threw tantrums to get the attention she "thought" she needed. Being deaf and blind effected her ability to relate to her reality, but didn't inhibit her ability to put her thoughts into action.

Perhaps God is the totality of all emotional experience in the universe, all that exists. It is my belief that he simply was a series of emotional experiences that found language, a way for describing to himself what he was. In the Old Testament he gives his name, I Am. A simple recognition that there was a self awareness and that it had meaning. While I do preach as a Christian, I view God as bigger than I can ever understand completely. A self aware being that knows all that can be known today; but, is capable of knowing more in the same way that the universe is capable of expanding.

I couldn't disagree more! Emotions are chemically induced, like adrenaline based fear, hormonal based rage, and pherone based love. God is not an emotional being. God doesn't get angry, or jealous, sad, repentive, or happy. I don't believe God is an external being, but being all that is!

We exist, we are self aware, this cannot be by accident and cannot be created nor destroyed, it simply is. How do we deal with it. The same truth exists for God, he is and must find a solution to the question of eternity. How does one exist for eternity and not live in hell because of boredom? We cannot even imagine eternity, it is too much for humans; but, God must address the question and I believe he did. He created us and let us define ourselves, no stasis; but, instead, constant self determination.

This is not gnostic thinking, it is Christian and most don't bother asking the hard questions about what and who God is; but, if we are honest, we must ask the eternity question. The difference between heaven and hell is the difference between being alone for eternity and choosing to interact with other self aware beings. Now here is a question for you to consider. The gnostics and New Age believers (and others) believe we return to being God, that we are all one and the same. Would that answer the eternity question, I don't believe it would.

There is no such thing a hell or being eternally alone. Nobody can steal your soul or lock you away from the whole. We are spiritual beings that are part of god, divided for experience. Hell is a device of fear, fear of loosing ones ego and becoming one with the ocean of consciousness, therefore loosing ones individuality. A drop of rain water may be isolated in the dessert, and evaporate, never knowing a lake or even a puddle, but it returns as reincarnated water.

The options for answering eternity without eternal hell, without eternal solitary confinement. In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was God and God means "I Am". He didn't wait to create eternity, it was and he didn't wait to create the universe, it was, it was him, all that existed and he allowed us to be part of it, hope. Not hope for no pain, we started from one, we started from solitary confinement and found a solution that reduced sorrow, it did not eliminate it, sorrow is and hope is also.

God doesn't "allow" us to be part of him, we "allow" God to be part of us by recognizing we are all connected and embracing and supporting each individuals journey back to the whole.

Before God created us, he was learning about himself and our lives are about learning about ourselves. That is my answer. Peace.

God is not a person, but an immutable and mathematical force of eternal creation. From our perspective God is a wild wind of exhalation. Our lives are lived while trying to ride the waves that are not born of anger or wrath, but are merely the tides of existence.