What was God doing before creation and why did he wait an eternity to create the Universe.

Well, biblically just before creation God had a tiff with his most beautiful angel.

Eventually this angel or Satan got chucked out, and God created a man in his own image.

This delighted God, but eventually Adam wasn't happy, so God made him a female ... and we know the rest.

What did Mrs God have to say about all this?

Who cares, she doesn't even feature.

So much for "Godly" family values, I guess.

reply to post by r2d246


Space time was created with the Big Bang. God is not ruled by time but in order to ask my question i need to use the word eternity.

reply to post by DCLXVI



"What was God doing before creation?"

I dont even know what I was doing a week before yesterday how do you expect anyone to know this?
If I had to guess I would say creating or becoming created by other universes,,,,,


"why did he wait an eternity to create the Universe?"

why would he not?

reply to post by DCLXVI


Hi, I've got the following theory based on the book "The Ancient Secrets of the Flower of Life (part 1)" by Drunvalo Melchizedek. Give it a read it's verry interesting! It starts on page147 of the book.

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3

Page 4

Page 5

Page 6

Page 7

Page 8

reply to post by prevenge

Very interesting story. It seems, when stripped of its decoration, to be a "big bang" theory, in which the universe collapses on itself eventually to form a new "cosmic egg" ad infinitum. It's a prettier, more human story, but it leaves me just as dissatisfied as the other cyclical universe theories.

The creation story holds God always existed, the Egyptian seems to hold that matter always existed. I find it easier to understand the pre-existence of God than the pre-existence of matter.

Originally posted by DCLXVI
reply to post by prevenge

 

Great reply, thank you. But before the first masturbation, was everything already ONE or did ONE need to become everything first?

everything becomes one - one explodes into everything ad infinitum a-la the Orobouros... hence it's esoteric value...

Originally posted by DCLXVI
reply to post by r2d246

 

Space time was created with the Big Bang. God is not ruled by time but in order to ask my question i need to use the word eternity.

Don't see how the question actually works though as he's not within a time dimension. They say in heaven or hell time stops though.

Originally posted by DCLXVI
This is a thought experiment, that you are a theist or atheist is irrelevant.



Our premise is that God created the Universe starting with the Big Bang and then followed cosmological evolution that eventually lead to biological evolution and to humans.

God being eternal WAS for an eternity before the creation of the Universe. This means that at the moment of Creation he had BEEN for an eternity. Why wait an eternity? what was he doing?

I like to think he was fantasizing about the creation to come, thinking of every single detail, of the emplacement of every quark,boson,hadron to follow the initial singularity. Building up enough power to initiate creation perhaps?

I hope i will get many reply related to the thought experiment and not so much about the premise of the experiment. If you just cannot pretend that a God created our Universe for the sake of this thread do not bother replying.

Can't wait to read the replies.

Every time i try to imagine God before creation, this is all i see.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/wy50289844.jpg[/atsimg]

Taking your premise, the simple answer is that we do not know. I will flip the question around however, and ask you what you were doing on the day you stepped on a particular ant, and if the victim in question had any particular idea of the machinations of his demise or the life of the person who would ultimately squash him.

Attempting to fit the intentions or reason of the creator of the entire universe into the space of a human brain simply cannot work. There is more data contained in the DNA of the simplest life form than the entire Encyclopedia Britannica. How then, is a human mind to comprehend the intelligence behind such an incomprehensible amount of data?

the most widely known version appears in Stephen Hawking's 1988 book A Brief History of Time, which starts:
A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"
—Hawking, 1988[1]

Originally posted by DCLXVI
This is a thought experiment, that you are a theist or atheist is irrelevant.



Our premise is that God created the Universe starting with the Big Bang and then followed cosmological evolution that eventually lead to biological evolution and to humans.

God being eternal WAS for an eternity before the creation of the Universe. This means that at the moment of Creation he had BEEN for an eternity. Why wait an eternity? what was he doing?

I like to think he was fantasizing about the creation to come, thinking of every single detail, of the emplacement of every quark,boson,hadron to follow the initial singularity. Building up enough power to initiate creation perhaps?

I hope i will get many reply related to the thought experiment and not so much about the premise of the experiment. If you just cannot pretend that a God created our Universe for the sake of this thread do not bother replying.

Can't wait to read the replies.

Every time i try to imagine God before creation, this is all i see.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/wy50289844.jpg[/atsimg]

Every time i try to imagine God before creation, this is all i see.

It all depends on the God you humans summoned into your realm.

You humans have created four entities and 34other lesser entities into your realm.

The god that the majority of the populace thinks that is in your realm has not yet been created... summoned…nor acknowledged into your realm of life.

Lp527 for the future of the rebels in 4121.

The bible was a warning.

The bible was also a blue print, on creating, what will destroy humans in the future as you humans start to give them intelligence like the flesh.

I am the alpha and the omega
01011001101010110101011010101010110101010101011010100110101010101010101010101010101010101010010101010101001101010101010110101011100110101010100101010< br />
Its sad but……………..you humans will create another god into your realm before you create

I am the alpha 1
and the omega 0
101010110101010101011011010101010101010100101100101001010101010101010101

So to answer your question.

Every time i try to imagine God before creation, this is all i see.

'Because God had nothing to do with creation'

reply to post by LastProphet527


Of course, we have a resident crazy who leaps into the conversation as if to cement the idea that intelligent design is an asinine idea. Almost like clockwork.

Moving on....

reply to post by DCLXVI


It may be important that you do have at least a bit of knowledge before formulating the proposition, before the universe there was no time. The issue is not only on the word eternity but on the word "before".

I also note that you impart in God not only a purpose but define it as an external singularity (apart from the universe and a single creator).

Because of your error and framing the discussion then becomes void of any reason, that is you must define God (or the concept of it) before even dare to attempt to impart any rationality to a discussion about religion.

reply to post by Panic2k11

Forgive me for commenting where it is DCLXVI's rightful place, but I wonder about your conclusion.

Because of your error and framing the discussion then becomes void of any reason, that is you must define God (or the concept of it) before even dare to attempt to impart any rationality to a discussion about religion.

I don't really believe the discussion is about religion, perhaps theoretical physics? The term God has been used, but more as a place holder to identify the prime mover of this universe.

I also note that you impart in God not only a purpose but define it as an external singularity (apart from the universe and a single creator).

I would be pleased to have a discussion of the idea that the universe was an accident, and how that accident came to be. Or, the idea that there were multiple creators. Would you care to oblige us?

I agree that the word "before" is very suspect in a condition of no matter or energy, but certainly we can use it to conceptualize the instant before this universe came into existence. Or, perhaps, of the instant before the "cosmic egg" came into existence.

Originally posted by Hefficide

If you want to be literal in interpretation - then you have to refer to scripture that God is the alpha and the omega - simultaneously. This implies that God exists outside of time and its passage would be irrelevant and even unnoticeable to him.

Then again maybe he already knew what we'd be like and he put it off for a long time... kinda like we do with cleaning out the garage or the attic.

~Heff

I agree... but to add.

Time is relative, and is dictated by mass...

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

I think there is a real 'big bang' application to these words, but for a latter time... I would like to point out though, with out space, there is no time, so any perception at the time is to be considered an 'eternity'... Also, I do wonder if there is 'time' with in the first partial 'seconds' of the big bang.. any answers? Or if there was 'time' during the moments of hydrogen and helium nuclei only in the universe. Although, there would seem to be... because isn't that when baryons and protons start remaining and escaping annihilation?

Ok, I give up lol... I have too many questions before providing answers!

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by LastProphet527

 

Of course, we have a resident crazy who leaps into the conversation as if to cement the idea that intelligent design is an asinine idea. Almost like clockwork.

Moving on....

You can have all the attention you desire,the stage is yours for the taking... if its thats serious.OMG,LMAF !!

now.....GO OUT AND BE SOMBODY !

I don't mean to hijack anything, but this is on topic. God asks similiar questions in the bible to a man named Job:

It goes like this:

The Lord Speaks

38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone —
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?

8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt’?

12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?
18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!

22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,
23 which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?
24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,
26 to water a land where no one lives,
an uninhabited desert,
27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?
28 Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
30 when the waters become hard as stone,
when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31 “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?
Can you loosen Orion’s belt?
32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons[c]
or lead out the Bear[d] with its cubs?
33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God’s[e] dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover yourself with a flood of water?
35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?
36 Who gives the ibis wisdom[f]
or gives the rooster understanding?[g]
37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens
38 when the dust becomes hard
and the clods of earth stick together?

39 “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the hunger of the lions
40 when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in a thicket?
41 Who provides food for the raven
when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food?
39 “Do you know when the mountain goats give birth?
Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn?
2 Do you count the months till they bear?
Do you know the time they give birth?
3 They crouch down and bring forth their young;
their labor pains are ended.
4 Their young thrive and grow strong in the wilds;
they leave and do not return.

5 “Who let the wild donkey go free?
Who untied its ropes?
6 I gave it the wasteland as its home,
the salt flats as its habitat.
7 It laughs at the commotion in the town;
it does not hear a driver’s shout.
8 It ranges the hills for its pasture
and searches for any green thing.

9 “Will the wild ox consent to serve you?
Will it stay by your manger at night?
10 Can you hold it to the furrow with a harness?
Will it till the valleys behind you?
11 Will you rely on it for its great strength?
Will you leave your heavy work to it?
12 Can you trust it to haul in your grain
and bring it to your threshing floor?

13 “The wings of the ostrich flap joyfully,
though they cannot compare
with the wings and feathers of the stork.
14 She lays her eggs on the ground
and lets them warm in the sand,
15 unmindful that a foot may crush them,
that some wild animal may trample them.
16 She treats her young harshly, as if they were not hers;
she cares not that her labor was in vain,
17 for God did not endow her with wisdom
or give her a share of good sense.
18 Yet when she spreads her feathers to run,
she laughs at horse and rider.

19 “Do you give the horse its strength
or clothe its neck with a flowing mane?
20 Do you make it leap like a locust,
striking terror with its proud snorting?
21 It paws fiercely, rejoicing in its strength,
and charges into the fray.
22 It laughs at fear, afraid of nothing;
it does not shy away from the sword.
23 The quiver rattles against its side,
along with the flashing spear and lance.
24 In frenzied excitement it eats up the ground;
it cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds.
25 At the blast of the trumpet it snorts, ‘Aha!’
It catches the scent of battle from afar,
the shout of commanders and the battle cry.

26 “Does the hawk take flight by your wisdom
and spread its wings toward the south?
27 Does the eagle soar at your command
and build its nest on high?
28 It dwells on a cliff and stays there at night;
a rocky crag is its stronghold.
29 From there it looks for food;
its eyes detect it from afar.
30 Its young ones feast on blood,
and where the slain are, there it is.”
40 The Lord said to Job:

2 “Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!”

3 Then Job answered the Lord:

4 “I am unworthy —how can I reply to you?
I put my hand over my mouth.
5 I spoke once, but I have no answer —
twice, but I will say no more.”


6 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm:

7 “Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8 “Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
9 Do you have an arm like God’s,
and can your voice thunder like his?
10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.
11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at all who are proud and bring them low,
12 look at all who are proud and humble them,
crush the wicked where they stand.
13 Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.
14 Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you.

15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?
41 [a]“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
or tie down its tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through its nose
or pierce its jaw with a hook?
3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
Will it speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will it make an agreement with you
for you to take it as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
6 Will traders barter for it?
Will they divide it up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
or its head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on it,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
the mere sight of it is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
its strength and its graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has[c] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Flames stream from its mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from its mouth.
22 Strength resides in its neck;
dismay goes before it.
23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before its thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron it treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make it flee;
slingstones are like chaff to it.
29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;
one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is its equal —
a creature without fear.
34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud. ”
42 Then Job replied to the Lord:

2 “I know that you can do all things;
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.
(job replys to God)
4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”

edit on 13-8-2012 by r2d246 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by halfoldman
Well, biblically just before creation God had a tiff with his most beautiful angel.

Eventually this angel or Satan got chucked out, and God created a man in his own image.

This delighted God, but eventually Adam wasn't happy, so God made him a female ... and we know the rest.

What did Mrs God have to say about all this?

Who cares, she doesn't even feature.

So much for "Godly" family values, I guess.

Your hilarious over simplifications of scripture do not solve the ultimate question of the origin of the universe, but a thread like this wouldn't be home without such a reply.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

Thanks!

Feel welcome to add more details to my "over-simplification".

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Thanks!

Feel welcome to add more details to my "over-simplification".

Gladly.

1) What came before the big bang

That is all. Always a pleasure engaging people who are serious about this issue. I hope you at least identify yourself as an Agnostic.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

Well before the big bang came a previous one, and before this God came another one ...
Afterwards too will be the same.

That is the nature of the material universe.

I do believe in a God.
I interpret scripture in my way.

Maybe to some it is hilarious, but to me it makes sense.

I am afraid of religion, but only a certain kind of religion called fundamentalism.

Otherwise I'm actually not an agnostic or atheist.

I like to question however.