So, if there isn't Christian persecution, explain this one, please.

I just came across this story from late July. A couple of links, as initially, they had two very young boys (6 and 7), and it's clear that they were NOT alone in this.

initial story

later story with more details

This is beyond sick. Bad enough that anyone would deliberately damage a church, and in the fashion they did, and worse that they apparently left two small children to take the blame.

So, my question is for those people that have claimed there isn't any persecution against Christians these days. If what you say is true, explain this? Plus, I have to add another story, of something nearly as bad, that I also found while searching for more details on this one:

this was back around Easter.....

I have heard of other such incidences, some from pastors I have known, about other churches in the area where we were. This is far more frequent that some people want to think. So, do we get "hate crimes" charges against any and all involved in such attacks? The churches aren't even asking for that. Where is the ACLU in these cases? What happened to freedom to worship? That pastor who was threatened (another thread), and the people stabbed trying to help him, are yet another case. I have seen video of people attacking street preachers as well. When these cases are talked about, a lot of people ask as though such attacks are somehow "deserved", because sometime in the past, something bad happened, and Christians are blamed. When are people going to understand that ALL people, of ALL faiths, deserve a chance to worship in peace, to enjoy the freedom to show their beliefs in public, to be able to walk unafraid of being attacked for what they believe? These aren't people going around hurting anyone.

All these threads saying that people claim christians arent persecuted. I have NEVER heard anyone claim this.

Sure does seem to be an influx of "poor, poor pitiful" christian threads on this board nowadays.

Name a group of people that you don't think are being "persecuted" in one way or another. Well, other than the super rich elite, we are all being "persecuted" in some way. It's called keeping the pot stirred, can't have peace amongst the peasants now, can we?

Originally posted by TKDRL
Name a group of people that you don't think are being "persecuted" in one way or another. Well, other than the super rich elite, we are all being "persecuted" in some way. It's called keeping the pot stirred, can't have peace amongst the peasants now, can we?

Even the rich claim persecution, in the form of taxes.

Vandalism is different from persecution.

per·se·cute
   [pur-si-kyoot] Show IPA
verb (used with object), per·se·cut·ed, per·se·cut·ing.
1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, especially because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.
2. to annoy or trouble persistently.

van·dal·ize
   [van-dl-ahyz] Show IPA
verb (used with object), van·dal·ized, van·dal·iz·ing.
to destroy or deface by vandalism: Someone vandalized the museum during the night.

There's no reason to believe they weren't alone in it. It's amazing what kids can accomplish when they're bored.

I'm afraid you're wasting your time, LadyGreenEyes. Unfortunately, the only thing your thread will accomplish is to get you flamed.

Perhaps it's only me, but I have yet to find a thread lately that is a honest-to-goodness discussion. Most have been post after post of ad hominens and mudslinging regardless of the forum and/or topic.

J

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
All these threads saying that people claim christians arent persecuted. I have NEVER heard anyone claim this.

Sure does seem to be an influx of "poor, poor pitiful" christian threads on this board nowadays.

Check out some of the recent threads; I have seen people tell ME than in them. I have also seen the same thing on other sites. Stories like this happen all the time, and some people want to pretend they don't.

Regarding these incidents, do you think the victims deserve any less protection than the special interest groups?

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by TKDRL
Name a group of people that you don't think are being "persecuted" in one way or another. Well, other than the super rich elite, we are all being "persecuted" in some way. It's called keeping the pot stirred, can't have peace amongst the peasants now, can we?

The point isn't that other groups aren't, because many are. Not saying "all", because I don't think rare instances are the same as frequent ones. The point is, though, that some want to pretend this doesn't happen to Christians regularly, when all of the evidence shows that it does. I just want honesty from people that think because they hate a group, they can pretend nothing bad happens to said group. No, NOT everyone, but there are people like that.

And, yes, a LOT of this nonsense is stirred up by those in control, to manipulate the masses.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Vandalism is different from persecution.

per·se·cute
   [pur-si-kyoot] Show IPA
verb (used with object), per·se·cut·ed, per·se·cut·ing.
1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, especially because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.
2. to annoy or trouble persistently.

van·dal·ize
   [van-dl-ahyz] Show IPA
verb (used with object), van·dal·ized, van·dal·iz·ing.
to destroy or deface by vandalism: Someone vandalized the museum during the night.

Vandalism done for the purpose of persecution, specifically attacking a church because it is a church, could be considered "oppressive treatment", could it not?

Always good to have the definitions, though. I just don't think an attack like those on the churches was some random prank.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The problem is the federal government has enacted hate crime legislation intended to make the sole difference between persecution and vandalism appear to be whether the victim is part of a special interest or minority group. This essentially means a minority can assault a non minority, calling them slurs and making it obvious that they are being targeted because of their differences from the minority attacker... And the legalese of hate crime legislation makes the courts treat the attack as a rudimentary crime.

Equal treatment under the law doesn't exist so long as their are protected classes of citizens alongside standard classes when viewed under the microscope of the American judicial system.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


All three of the abrahamic faiths have persecution complexes. Its in part due to the false dogma that their religion is superior to others and they are the "chosen".

That leads to an unfounded sense of superiority and entitlement, and a false sense of persecution whenever something they dont like happens to them.

You are not being persecuted. Get over yourself.

Originally posted by Bodhi7
There's no reason to believe they weren't alone in it. It's amazing what kids can accomplish when they're bored.

There is very good reason. Two children that young, from the one report, could not have gotten there alone, apparently. The police were mentioned as investigating how they arrived. Meaning who brought them. Plus, if you watch the video in the second story, you can see the basement window used for entry, while easy to access from outside, is VERY high on the inside wall. Children of 6 and 7 are not likely to enter that without getting hurt. Plus, the extent of damage is a LOT. The sanctuary, fellowship hall (typically, for those that don't know, a larger room with plenty of space to seat everyone, and frequently attached to a kitchen), and multiple Sunday School rooms (think classrooms). If they did do it alone, i would be stunned.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I have. Seriously. I've been on a few Christian forums where they truly believed that any law that was not in favor of them meant they were being oppressed and victimized and asked to hide their identity. I've personally know a few Christians who believed it too. And even more so, they always blamed the atheists for doing so.

For example:

A courthouse decides to not let anyone display images of Christmas in any way it victimizes all Christians everywhere because Christians have a right to worship wherever they please, and absolutely nobody else does.

You can't convince these people they're wrong, no matter what the bible says or what the laws actually say.

Originally posted by LadyJae
I'm afraid you're wasting your time, LadyGreenEyes. Unfortunately, the only thing your thread will accomplish is to get you flamed.

Perhaps it's only me, but I have yet to find a thread lately that is a honest-to-goodness discussion. Most have been post after post of ad hominens and mudslinging regardless of the forum and/or topic.

J

Nothing new there, if that's the case! Of course, all of that only proves the point further, in matters like this. I am really not surprised at all that so many are so virulently hateful towards Christians and Christianity, because we were told that would be the case. I just hope for more honesty on the issue.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

The problem is the federal government has enacted hate crime legislation intended to make the sole difference between persecution and vandalism appear to be whether the victim is part of a special interest or minority group. This essentially means a minority can assault a non minority, calling them slurs and making it obvious that they are being targeted because of their differences from the minority attacker... And the legalese of hate crime legislation makes the courts treat the attack as a rudimentary crime.

Equal treatment under the law doesn't exist so long as their are protected classes of citizens alongside standard classes when viewed under the microscope of the American judicial system.

Exactly! That is the main point I am trying to make here. I don't expect this sort of thing to stop (that would not match what we are told will happen), but I do want equal protection in what is supposed to be a country that protects freedom for all. Not holding my breath, though!

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

All three of the abrahamic faiths have persecution complexes. Its in part due to the false dogma that their religion is superior to others and they are the "chosen".

That leads to an unfounded sense of superiority and entitlement, and a false sense of persecution whenever something they dont like happens to them.

You are not being persecuted. Get over yourself.

So, you don't think attacks on a person or place because of religion is persecution, even though the definition (as posted above) clearly states that it is? Denial much?

Besides which, Christianity has less than zero to do with Islam. Judaism is another matter, since our OT is also their book. And yes, those are God's chosen people. The rest of us, the non-Jewish Christians, are simply sharing in that blessing. "Superior"? Nope, just loved and forgiven.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I have. Seriously. I've been on a few Christian forums where they truly believed that any law that was not in favor of them meant they were being oppressed and victimized and asked to hide their identity. I've personally know a few Christians who believed it too. And even more so, they always blamed the atheists for doing so.

For example:

A courthouse decides to not let anyone display images of Christmas in any way it victimizes all Christians everywhere because Christians have a right to worship wherever they please, and absolutely nobody else does.

You can't convince these people they're wrong, no matter what the bible says or what the laws actually say.

Accuracy is KEY in such discussions. Cases like you mention are because other groups ARE allowed to display things, and Christians aren't. Nor did any Christian group state that others should not be allowed. Only that they SHOULD BE. Please get the facts straight, if you want to discuss the issue. Besides, he was stating that he's never seen anyone claim that Christians were NOT persecuted, not that Christians make that claim.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
All these threads saying that people claim christians arent persecuted. I have NEVER heard anyone claim this.

Sure does seem to be an influx of "poor, poor pitiful" christian threads on this board nowadays.

Check out some of the recent threads; I have seen people tell ME than in them. I have also seen the same thing on other sites. Stories like this happen all the time, and some people want to pretend they don't.

Regarding these incidents, do you think the victims deserve any less protection than the special interest groups?

I have never seen it. Not saying it doesnt happen, but anyone who would say that ANY group doesnt get persecuted in one way or another is simply baiting.

I personally dont think any "special interest" group deserves more protection than any other. We are all equal in the eyes of the law (well, we are supposed to be), therefore, to give any special treatment to ANYONE is counterproductive.

I CERTAINLY dont think religious groups deserve any special protection.