Eyes Wide Open on Good and Evil - Dead Sea Scrolls 'Instructor' Document - AMAZING READ!

reply to post by MamaJ

When you say your idea is to be born again are you speaking of baptism?

Baptism by Water is the physical manifestation of the spiritual commitment. Baptism by Fire is what saves you, this is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Ruach ha'Kodesh) you recieve in your salvation experience, the nature of your spirit is changed. Baptism by Fire burns away the spirit that inhabited you before you were born again.

Satan mocked this process using the demon Molech to which some of the ancients, both Canaanite and the Israelite idolaters (Solomon) would cause their children to pass through the fire (human sacrifice for prosperity).



Above is a picture depicting this mockery of the salvation experience.

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by MamaJ

 

In this passage I think it actually does refer to Jesus when it mentions "his visitation" Jesus is Christ come in the flesh. What I found interesting was the part where the good and evil are still here but that the Holy Spirit will protect us from the evil spirit.

John 17:9-19

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Pretty much what Jesus said in the underlined portion. The references to the son of perdition (man of sin) and Jesus praying not to remove us from the world but protect us (our spirits) from the evil one is what makes me want to think there won't be a pre-trib rapture. Here Jesus is praying for future believers as well:

John 17:20-23

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[e] believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


This is why it is up to God alone to cast final judgement. We are all too heavily flawed.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

My aim in presenting this text is to allow anyone to verify what is presented by scripture. Also, if any points can be denied, free free to list scripture as your reasoning. Please keep opinions to a minimum and simply approve or deny from a biblical perspective.

Wow.

Isn't that kind of like "verifying" the existence of Santa Claus by evaluating the lyrics of Christmas carols? Or maybe it's more like asking people for a consensus interpretation of the morality of Sharia law and prohibit anyone to draw from any other sources other than the Koran.

Wouldn't peoples "conclusions" be pretty obvious since you've rigged the debate before it even started? You've eliminated room for dissent with your plea to "keep opinions to a minimum" and ask people only to approve or deny something based upon texts from a single source which all start out with the presupposition of a single ideologies inherent and indisputable veracity and superiority.

I'm gathering you are really more interested in simply finding people to validate what you already believe to be true, rather than actually wanting to ask a legitimate question in hopes of receiving a legitimate answer. Am I correct?

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck

 

This is why it is up to God alone to cast final judgement. We are all too heavily flawed.

Hey now...speak for yourself. I was born OK the first time around.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by MamaJ

 

When you say your idea is to be born again are you speaking of baptism?

Baptism by Water is the physical manifestation of the spiritual commitment. Baptism by Fire is what saves you, this is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Ruach ha'Kodesh) you recieve in your salvation experience, the nature of your spirit is changed. Baptism by Fire burns away the spirit that inhabited you before you were born again.

Satan mocked this process using the demon Molech to which some of the ancients, both Canaanite and the Israelite idolaters (Solomon) would cause their children to pass through the fire (human sacrifice for prosperity).

Above is a picture depicting this mockery of the salvation experience.

edit on 10-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

"Baptism by Fire", huh?

...and we wonder why we use to burn so many innocent women alive for being "witches". With rhetoric like that, it's amazing we still aren't doing so.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I appreciate and respect your views on being born again.

I still hold to being born again is... Being born again .... By water.... Through the womb.

Eternity for one life... In one body.... Is just illogical in my mind.

Its my belief Jesus reincarnated. Its my belief reincarnation is referenced in the Bible, however there are many ways to interpret. I just sp happen to think we all are born again by free will and we will be the ones to judge our progress when this life is over. Will we choose to come back or will we choose to learn more on the other side before we make the journey again?

The Earth in my opinion is just one stop of many in the jouney of spirit, mind and soul evolution.

Originally posted by MamaJ
I believe we reincarnate until we have reached spiritual evolution. I think God is outside of time whereas we dont have a " time limit" when there will be some huge judgement day where he sentences us to heaven or hell...

You know what's amazing to me?

That so many people here seems to think that "baptism" is somehow a Christian tradition as opposed to a pagan practice which was adopted by Christianity several thousand years after it originated amongst the worshippers of Bapthomet of Northern Africa and the Near East. BAPTism. BAPTomet. Think about it for awhile.

...also recall as well that 3,000 years before the alleged birth of "Jesus Christ" the Egyptian Book of the Dead chronicles the birth of "Horus Krst" who was also born of a virgin mother on December 25th, crucified, entombed, and resurrected, and BAPTized at age 30 by a locust-eating, desert hermit named "Anup the BAPTizer" who incidentally was later beheaded.

BAPTizing your children is a throwback to the ancient pagan religions. Now go do a google image search for "Bapthomet" and you can all see a picture of the supposed deity which you are actually "worshipping" by continuing to propagate this practice of BAPTism.

Below are just a handful of other uncanny similarities between Christianity and "Krstianity" that can bee found in
"The Egyptian Book of the Dead (also known as the "Papyrus of Ani"). Remember...this was all written down over 3,000 years before the birth of Christ.
Identical Life Experiences
(1) It is written that both Horus and Jesus existed before their incarnations.
(2) Horus was born of the virgin Isis on December 25th in a cave/manger.
(3) Horus' birth was announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
(4) The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: "Out of Egypt have I called my son." (Matt. 2:15)
(5) He was a child teacher in the temple and was baptized by Anup the Baptizer when he was thirty years old.
(6) He had twelve disciples and performed miracles such as feeding bread to the multitude and walking on water.
(7) He raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
(8) He transfigured on a mount.
(9) He also had titles such as the "way, the truth, the light, the Messiah, God's anointed Son, the Son of Man, the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the Word, the Morning Star, the light of the world.
(10) He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the lamb, lion and fish ("Ichthys").
(11) Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
(12) Horus was called "KRST," or "Anointed One.
(13) He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
(14) The adoration of the Virgin and Child is connected with both the adoration of Isis and the infant Horus and the adoration of Mary and infant Jesus. In the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis, the original "Madonna and Child."

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Thank you for the post. I have read what I could of The Dead Sea Scrolls, Enoch, The book of Thomas and The Q. All great reads. In addition to the bible. Blessings

Asclepius is scripture on the side of the Mystery Religion. Feel free. Fry up some Hermetic Bacon if you want. The Rosecutions have plenty of scripture and references. I'll stick to the Bible, but we may as well use any scripture or even a movie or two. The symbolism will be the same.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

My aim in presenting this text is to allow anyone to verify what is presented by scripture. Also, if any points can be denied, free free to list scripture as your reasoning. Please keep opinions to a minimum and simply approve or deny from a biblical perspective.

Wow.

Isn't that kind of like "verifying" the existence of Santa Claus by evaluating the lyrics of Christmas carols? Or maybe it's more like asking people for a consensus interpretation of the morality of Sharia law and prohibit anyone to draw from any other sources other than the Koran.

Wouldn't peoples "conclusions" be pretty obvious since you've rigged the debate before it even started? You've eliminated room for dissent with your plea to "keep opinions to a minimum" and ask people only to approve or deny something based upon texts from a single source which all start out with the presupposition of a single ideologies inherent and indisputable veracity and superiority.

I'm gathering you are really more interested in simply finding people to validate what you already believe to be true, rather than actually wanting to ask a legitimate question in hopes of receiving a legitimate answer. Am I correct?

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I can't get my head around the idea that "Jesus died for our sins"... In what sense did he?

Originally posted by EddieCusak
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I can't get my head around the idea that "Jesus died for our sins"... In what sense did he?

It's tied in debt, both negative and positive. God's first act was a choice. Having all power and creative energies, he could have created a universe that was made to worship Him, like a grand tyranny. Instead, God gave it away as a gift.

This reflects two types of will. There is a will to give and receive and there is a will to take. If God had created a universe of adoration to his work, he would have been creating a universe based on the will to take. Instead, we see a universe based on his will to give and our will to receive. Again, there is a problem. If we only receive, we then have what is called bread of shame. This is the state whereby we have been given everything but can not give back. We then have bread of shame. It's like being at dinner and someone offers to pay your bill for you out of the blue. Your first reaction is to want to repay what is given. This is why the will to give accompanies the will to receive. The will to take makes us a thief.

When we entered the Garden, we had been given it all. The one thing we were not to touch was the tree of knowledge. God set this in place as our one law to follow. We selected the fruit and ate, making us a thief of what God gave. We had the same choice God had from before creation. God selected the will to give. We selected the will to take.

If you smoke, you get cancer. Why? Taking reward that is not earned results in a debt and suffering at the end. Instead of taking the reward, we can decide not to smoke. Instead, we can go to the exercise bike. In this case, we are suffering first with the result of the reward of better health. Suffering always leads to reward. Work a job and you feed your family. Take 10 days off to get drunk and the reward you take leads to suffering. It's the law of returns.

Take our own sin as the companion to this story. What is the fruit of knowledge? It's technology. We were placed in a rain forest with all the fruit of God's knowledge. His fruit can only give back to nature. When we decided to create our own, we eventually die as a result. Why?

Isaiah said that if you know the end from the beginning, you know the entire story.

Revelation 13

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e - or of mankind] That number is 666.

Carbon has 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons. Carbon is the mark of mankind and the mark of our technology and money system built around the Petrol Dollar System Ponzi scheme. Our fruit is the mark of Babylon and the system of government created by the Mystery School Religion.

Jesus took our debt and paid it. We cannot do this, as our only source of doing this is addition and subtraction. What do you get when you multiply two negatives? POSITIVE!

Consider this example: In mathematics, if you owe three people $10, then you are negative $30 (3 X -10 = $-30). If the lenders then say, "We forgive you for this debt because we love you," then you are free from that debt by another negative. You have just had three subtractions of -10, making you three positives of $10 (-3 X -$10). Your debt is -30 + 30 = Zero. Jesus died a horrible death to pay our debt, walking us back to a positive value.

Our negative is sin. Christ suffered (WORKED) for our debt payment. Negative X Negative is Positive.

reply to post by milominderbinder

Baptism by Fire", huh?

...and we wonder why we use to burn so many innocent women alive for being "witches". With rhetoric like that, it's amazing we still aren't doing so.

:shk: Spiritual application not physical.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by MamaJ

 

When you say your idea is to be born again are you speaking of baptism?

Baptism by Water is the physical manifestation of the spiritual commitment. Baptism by Fire is what saves you, this is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Ruach ha'Kodesh) you recieve in your salvation experience, the nature of your spirit is changed. Baptism by Fire burns away the spirit that inhabited you before you were born again.

Satan mocked this process using the demon Molech to which some of the ancients, both Canaanite and the Israelite idolaters (Solomon) would cause their children to pass through the fire (human sacrifice for prosperity).

Above is a picture depicting this mockery of the salvation experience.

edit on 10-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

Fire is symbolic of trials and the cutting of our pride. All true, but water puts out fire. Christ brought us Living Water. The righteous--those covered by Christ--are not reserved for that last fire that is necessary to burn the chaff.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


"Revelation 1:7

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen. "

What do you think coming with the clouds refers to?

What Bible translation do you use?

Thank you for taking the time to post all of this!

Originally posted by LuFri
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

"Revelation 1:7

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen. "

What do you think coming with the clouds refers to?

What Bible translation do you use?

Thank you for taking the time to post all of this!

I am sure I paraphrased when I quoted. Sometimes I do. The version I use is the first one that comes up on Bible Gateway. I think it's the NIV.

Clouds is a reference to something similar to the usage in Enoch 1 of Spirits. Here is a note I remember using in a blog post.

----------------
(24) Note the many implications of vss. 3-8 regarding the progeny of evil spirits. (9The spirits of the giants shall be like clouds,) (25) which shall oppress, corrupt, fall, content, and bruise upon earth.

(25) The Greek word for "clouds" here, nephelas, may disguise a more ancient reading, Napheleim (Nephilim).

10They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thirsty; they shall be concealed, and shall not (26) rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction.
-------------------

If I go to the Strongs, IT SAYS THIS.

The idea in Greek with this word is a complete overshadowing of everything. The reason they mourn is because we likely remember who we are at the instant Christ appears. Those who pierced him are on the Earth as well. They mourn for what they did, yet all the people will mourn. Have you ever seen a woman mourn who is from the East? It's a wailing sound. IMAGINE what we must feel the moment we see God in glory, yet we realize why he is here? Love for us overshadows us on all sides. The veil is lifted and we realize our own nature next to His. Emotion does not begin to describe what this will be like.

Remember the mirror idea and the twins. One is good and one is evil. In the case of the Nephilim, they (Falling Divine Beings) will be slaughtered and destroyed at the very moment Christ arrives. Jude 1 describes the scene and is actually quoting from Enoch 1. Find the link in my signature and read the article on the Watchers.

At the same time, it will be something different for those who Christ comes to protect. He will come at the last minute, shortly before all flesh is destroyed by the hands of men. Matthew 24 calls this the days being cut short.

Originally posted by LuFri
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

"Revelation 1:7

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen. "

What do you think coming with the clouds refers to?

What Bible translation do you use?

Thank you for taking the time to post all of this!

Something else that is really interesting. The word Amnion is a word to describe the sac that we are in when we are surrounded by the womb. The word Amniotic fluid comes from the fluid in the sac. Here is the interesting part. We are in a womb and cannot see beyond our darkness. When we are born, the Amnion sometimes becomes a covering, like a veil, over the face. When the veil is removed from the newborn, this CAUL as it is called, comes in many different configurations. Sometimes, the baby emerges within the entire Amnion shell.

Why am I saying this? Here is the interesting part. What other word is made from Amnion? Amnesia!!!!! I love God for these amazing linguistic mysteries.

What is it we have forgotten? What is the Earth? It's a womb. What gains union for the baby to be born? The man and woman fall in love. Sperm and egg come together. Baby develops in a womb and is born. The parents take the veil (Caul) from over its eyes and it sees them for the first time. Jesus said, "You must be born again." He meant it. When you see Christ for the first time, he comes in your clouds. The clouds are removed when he appears. We can count on it. What will we remember?

In this womb, we gain union with God's spirit. The soul and Spirit come together in love and our next metamorphosis takes place.

Originally posted by EddieCusak
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I can't get my head around the idea that "Jesus died for our sins"... In what sense did he?

Biblical application from the Old Testament (Old Covenant), in Judaism the blood of an innocent, usually a lamb, goat kid or dove would be sacrificed, the blood of the innocent traded for the blood of the guilty (mankind). It was prophecied many times before Jesus the Messiah was born that before the second temple was destroyed in Jerusalem, that the Messiah would be bruised and afflicted for mankind's transgressions against God and then cut off (crucified). The prophecies of this goes back 3500-4000 years ago. To free mankind from sin, he took all our transgressions, past, present and future onto himself to free mankind from a blood debt we owed God. So he paid for every evil you have commited or will commit if you believe and confess your wrongdoings to him and ask forgiveness of him to accept his sacrifice. If you do not then you're still under judgement and will face that judgement when he comes.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Who is more a Son of Light: the child molesting Catholic priests or the Atheists who get out there and try to make the world a better place?

Who is more a Son of Darkness: a Pagan who tries to fill the lives of others with love or the people from Westboro Baptist?

What if perversity is not what you think and wickedness is not what you dream?

You are constructing your own premise apart from other context and comparisons. The Priest is what Jesus condemned as the High Priest. He also condemned Peter by saying, "Get behind me Satan." Peter denies Christ three times. Jesus says this to Peter:

Matthew 16:18
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Petros), and upon this rock (Petra) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Petros is a small stone that is moved. It's the same stone that was rolled away to reveal Christ. Who is the Church built on, ROME? No. It's built on the foundation stone (PETRA). That's Christ. Jesus also condemned the Builders for rejecting the chief cornerstone. The Builders and the Masons. The NWO is built on the movable foundation of the Mystery School Religion and Babylon. Jesus also condemned the moneychangers and turned over their tables. A table is a financial balance sheet. Are the tables turned today? That system of Babylon will be destroyed soon. Peter and the church of Rome have always been the harlot. I can discount your premise immediately on this shaky foundation. This is not to say that there are not many good Christian Catholics. There are.

The second premise is that a Pagan can fill anyone with truth. The Mystery School Religion is based on taking rather than giving. It's built on the will to take rather than the will to receive from God or the will to give to others. Duplicity is seeking God for reward. What is really desired? Duplicity is seeking God to avoid judgment. What is truly desired? Paganism is built around the selfishness of the inner desires for power and wealth. This can only take from others. True Christian faith is built on good for its own sake. The will to receive from God is then paid forward by the will to give to others above self. You can only find this narrow path in one place.

The Mystery School Traditions are not soley based on "taking rather than giving." The Mystery Schools are designed to help the Initiate find Gnosis and share that Light, not keep it to themselves and hoarding it. The Process that an Initiate undergoes 'Stage by Stage' helps them 'Realize' those 'Inner Tools', cultivate them and use those 'Tools' which helps them in the 'Processes' of Cultivating the 'Stone'. Helping others and walking in beauty is part of cultivating the 'Stone'. Mystery Schools serve as a Guides and a true School will help the Initiate in coming to Directly Experience Gnosis rather than becomming dependent on the School or Teacher. The same stands for the various Pagan traditions (both Mystery School wise or not).
The idea that Initiates seek 'reward' within these traditions is not intirely correct. During the early stages along the Path, a person does seek these things and it can help them or hinder them but eventually they move beyond these things. As in Initiate, you would be instructed to understand things rather than Judge them.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Asclepius is scripture on the side of the Mystery Religion. Feel free. Fry up some Hermetic Bacon if you want. The Rosecutions have plenty of scripture and references. I'll stick to the Bible, but we may as well use any scripture or even a movie or two. The symbolism will be the same.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

My aim in presenting this text is to allow anyone to verify what is presented by scripture. Also, if any points can be denied, free free to list scripture as your reasoning. Please keep opinions to a minimum and simply approve or deny from a biblical perspective.

Wow.

Isn't that kind of like "verifying" the existence of Santa Claus by evaluating the lyrics of Christmas carols? Or maybe it's more like asking people for a consensus interpretation of the morality of Sharia law and prohibit anyone to draw from any other sources other than the Koran.

Wouldn't peoples "conclusions" be pretty obvious since you've rigged the debate before it even started? You've eliminated room for dissent with your plea to "keep opinions to a minimum" and ask people only to approve or deny something based upon texts from a single source which all start out with the presupposition of a single ideologies inherent and indisputable veracity and superiority.

I'm gathering you are really more interested in simply finding people to validate what you already believe to be true, rather than actually wanting to ask a legitimate question in hopes of receiving a legitimate answer. Am I correct?

...or we could also just be of the opinion that it's all utter nonsense, right?