People that DONT believe in aliens...

reply to post by Phage

First let me say I respect the amount of research/thought you put into your posts. And you usually make decent points. However.


You assume you know the level of their technology and advancement. Which is an awful large assumption in my opinion. You know what they say about assuming right?

Maybe said race has mapped its entire corner of the galaxy? Maybe they possess knowledge we do not. Once again the ego of humanity shows through. Too many variables to make your conclusion. Mathematics is not the end all be all. Sadly to our tiny minds it seems to be.

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"People that DONT Believe in Aliens"...

I don't know what to say about that. I mean, logically it's ALMOST on the same side of the coin as the people who still believe the Earth is flat, or only 6,000 years old. Aside from that, there isn't just a whole lot that can be said. Sure, there are lots and lots of planets out there. I guess we are making progress. Seems like ten years ago, the prevailing opinion was that Earth was completely unique. So we know that there are huge probability odds in favor of life elsewhere, but until we get a better grasp of the universe around us, we won't know how close other civilizations are to us. We don't know that Earth IS 'ordinary', or that our galaxy is 'unremarkable'. For all we know our local area in the universe is the bee's knees in the grander scheme of things. Simply put we DO NOT KNOW.
Personally, I'm a believer that they are here and have been here for a long time. But I can also easily see the logic of the skeptical side of things. Only time will tell. One thing I have learned is that the argument sorta sucks. It's at an impasse. Haha! No amount of arguing is gonna change, say Phage's, mind. And no amount of arguing will change my mind. Only time will tell.

And it's silly to insult the other side.

reply to post by TheIrishJihad

Maybe said race has mapped its entire corner of the galaxy? Maybe they possess knowledge we do not. Once again the ego of humanity shows through. Too many variables to make your conclusion. Mathematics is not the end all be all. Sadly to our tiny minds it seems to be.

Maybe. Maybe not. But what conclusion of mine are you referring to? I don't recall stating one except that 1 in 250,000,000 odds are not good. I used the assumption provided by the OP for that.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are assuming that the single extraterrestrial intelligence proposed by the OP would have an extremely advanced technology in comparison to ours?

reply to post by Idonthaveabeard


Now add to that other dimensions or the relativist nature of time , it is almost a safe bet that there is life out there, somewhere...

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" is a quote I'm sure most here know well. Probabilities and "equations" that are based on faulty assumptions are not "extraordinary evidence". Still, there are a few possibilities that remain:
1) Either intelligent life destroys itself well before it becomes a space-faring civilization.
2) Intelligent life has already expanded throughout the galaxy and we are much too primitive to detect them, and they just aren't interested in primitive beings like us.
3) We are truly alone. Life may be abundant throughout the galaxy in the form of bacterial lifeforms, but not intelligent life.

And irrational people exist on both sides of the camp. Some people just cannot fathom the possible idea that we truly are alone in this universe as it would shatter their entire fantasy of aliens/extraterrestrials.

reply to post by Diablos


Of course there's also other possibilities. For instance.
4) Intelligent life does visit Earth on a regular basis, the result of which has led to a literal MOUNTAIN of evidence via abduction accounts, implants, eye witness testimony by the thousands and thousands of cases each year, military documents, etc, etc, ... and some people just don't want to accept this evidence. Other people don't care enough to examine the evidence, and the governments of the world have a very vested interest in keeping the evidence as quiet as possible and do so through a systematic program of disinformation that has been in place for sixty years now.

There's always that.

reply to post by JayinAR


If that option was true, then governmental silence and obfuscation of the fact would be criminal to say the least, it would require a connivance between several nations governments in ways that would demonstrate extremely dishonesty, because they would be allied in keeping the secret while at the same time actively waging wars against each-other to the detriment of all humanity, that would even be a show how bad and immature human civilization is to any outside observer.

If this option was valid, the only sane and redeeming conclusion (to us and our civilization) would be if we had been infiltrated and coopted, and the silence was benefiting those forces.

Yes, the numbers are mind-boggling and (for me) there is no question there is life out there.

But there are other problems involved, for one, imagine that Earth here is 4.5 billion years old....with the first "human-like" beings appearing only 2.5 MIL years ago and modern man only 200.000 years ago. Then look at the time when we developed things like technology, science, earliest civilization...it's only some thousands of years ago. Space travel, computers, radio, telescopes....etc.etc.

Although there might be billions of planets, it's still a gamble whether a planet, even if it supports life, has a civilization at any GIVEN point..let alone a "intelligent" civilization. Only being off, by, say a few thousand years in the development of a planet, could mean the difference between a high-tech civilization and "some monkeys" or maybe no life at all. (Mars is a good example because we assume that Mars could've harbored life some millions (billions) of years ago.)

So..seeing all those numbers, distances and mathematical odds, even with billions of potential habitable planets..chances are STILL rather slim that civilizations would meet each other. (Don't forget, if we have billions of habitable planets, we still have far, far more billions of non habitable ones as well).

Originally posted by Idonthaveabeard
Just been watching a universe show, they read out some stats:

In our galaxy alone there are an estimated 5,000,000,000 thats 5 BILLION other planets, 1% of these are thought to be in the 'goldilocks' zone of the sun, the area where its not to hot not to cold, liquid water and a strong atmosphere can exist. Only 1% you say? Thats still 500,000,000 planets that have potential to harbour life.

Our neighbour galaxy andromeda, which is BIGGER than our galaxy so lets do some reslistic guess work and say it could have 8 Billion planets, 1% would be 800,000,000 with potential to harbour life.

So in these two galaxys alone lets just round up the total and say there are 1,000,000,000 planets that habe potential to harbour life.

Ok lets add to that, that the Hubble telescope in early 2000s had observed 3,000 visible galaxys, so lets just say as a speculative average that each galaxy will have 500,000,000 potential earth type planets. Lets do the math 500,000,000 multiply it by 3000, thats 1,500,000,000,000. Yep one and a half TRILLION potential earth like planets.

Ok, so thats just the observed universe, now scientists speculate here could be 150,000,000,000 galaxys in the wide universe. Ok so assuming each galaxy has 500,000,000 earth like planets, we now multiply 500,000,000 by 150,000,000,000..................... haha yea right I'll let you guys do that one.

So anyone else still think were the only life in the universe!!!??

In the 60s we get to the moon, then we make it to mars, the discovery of our first earth like planet in the habitable zone is followed by that probe making it to the far outer reaches of the solar system. All that in 50 years, who knows maybe in the next 50 years we will discover how to travel at super high speeds through space and visit that earth like planet. Awesome.

edit on 8/6/2012 by AshleyD because: MOD EDIT: Edited inflammatory title.

Thing that gets me is that it doesn't have to be a earth like planet. They could live UNDER the ground in a paradise situation.

MATH CHECK !

It would be 50 million not 500 million

But yes it is incredible how many people don't believe in Aliens, as if we are the first things ever to build # and start flying in space. Not to mention if you believe in a soul, in terms of incarnating here on Earth for soul development...I mean why is that so hard to believe, we just appear on this spinning ball and don't know why. You can take '___' and experience being out of your body and in a different dimension, Scientist say that's not possible, scientists are also the people who indoctrinated you from a child telling you evolution is why you are here...yeah those guys who know everything.

Then you would have to consider if we are eternal beings part of an eternal source, then I would bet this is not even the original Earth more of a duplicate, the real one that existed many years eons ago. Now you have a entirely different view on aliens and what the universe is, and if you universe is actually everything that exists...or is it 50%,10%,1% or even just 00000.1? .This could be a tiny part of a greater reality, or just a kind of digital scene and we are digital bodies with real souls playing a game, like avatar.

All this is not just random thoughts, I obtained these scenarios by experience, using the aforementioned substance. I have seen stuff you simply wouldn't believe.

reply to post by Idonthaveabeard


I believe. I believe that life is out there. I believe that it will shock us when we find it/it finds us. I believe that because there are just too many planets out there.

I also believe you have a beard.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Perhaps its not the fact that there's billions of other planets just like ours... maybe they decided to come around our part of the neighborhood, just maybe, they were the ones who seeded the planet or planets around this part of the galaxy. Also the possibility that they were once just like us, or we are just like them. Or the fact that they had been around for so long that they have the time and resources/technology to explore all of the planets around this part of the cosmos... also how can we be certain or maybe we are certain not all planets have life forms/ intelligent or not. Meaning they can and possibly have the technology to detect planets with life forms out of the billions of stars here.... a race with a million years head start will have all teh time and enjoyment to explore all parts of this cluttered galaxy of ours... wouldnt you agree?

Originally posted by TheIrishJihad
Another problem I have is the argument that conditions must be perfect. Much like our own. And truth be told that is nothing more than a guess. Just because a planet is tidally locked to its star, or a little closer and hotter, or its atmosphere mainly being methane instead of carbon dioxide does not mean life of SOME form could not evolve and flourish there. Once again that is another problem that stems from our limited knowledge of the Universe and Astrobiology. We cling too tightly to our preconceived notion of life and how it can form. Instead of thinking outside the box and asking questions that are deemed Impossibility or just plain craziness we prefer to stagnate until some discovery smacks science in the face and forces their hand.

I love science and all the knowledge it brings. I hate how it is empirically controlled and anyone who proposes theories that don't jive with the mainstream are labeled quacks or kooks and shunned from the tightknit circles that make up the majority of mainstream scientists. People with supposedly outlandish theories are labeled New Age charlatans etc. It really hinders advancement of our species when new ideas are simply discarded because science refuses to possibly have to change their deep seeded "Truths".

I totally agree with your perspective... thinking underwater vents..... oxygen is an Earthling need.... just saying.

Let's consider one thing. Our evolution in the matters of timescale has happened fairly soon and fairly rapidly. The rest of earth's history has been dinosaurs and the like. Now think: if that supposed meteor had not wiped out the dinosaurs, would there be Reptilians? Or for that matter, COULD there be Reptilians who had already evolved and managed to survive the disaster to this date? And seeing as they have been in the game longer, how SMART would they be as of now? Now think of this: a planet out there in the verse gets lucky. No major global extinctions. That means a life form equally as intelligent to us could arise from a primitive life-form within a timescale between 50,000-100,000 years. Take that timescale and say their evolution or maybe even the formation of their planet began billions of years ago, and viola, you have a highly-intelligent race of beings who may or may not be able to travel the expanse of space. I mean, even WE are going to want to escape our planet and solar system altogether if we survive long enough for when the sun will kill us all, wont we? That SHOULD be what drives US to want to go out there further -- survival. It will come down to that. I would not be surprised if there were not loads of tribal homeless space nomads wandering the expanse, in all reality. The possibilities are endless!

reply to post by AsherahoftheSea


those thoughts brings us to the fermi paradox. where is everybody?

By the way... Who said we were INTELLIGENT? it takes a thief to know a thief... and I'm dumb enough to know humanity as a whole are quite ignorant.

reply to post by yeti101


You should be asking yourself why they would WANT to make contact with us, especially when they hold the capacity to dwell right under our noses with their advanced technologies. We can barely tolerate each other. Being "threatened" by the knowledge or appearance of a species of a higher intelligence would not only be an ego-blow for us (seeing as many of us hold to this "we are the center of the universe belief and God made us in his image and aliens HAVE to be demons or fallen angels") but also very frightening to many, if not everyone. I'm sorry but if they were in their hearts peaceful, they would not want to get into a conflict with us concerning ownership of a planet (which is another trait of mankind's ego -- calling the planet "theirs" and such just because they were born to it) and the higher the intelligence, the more capable a species is on deceiving and manipulating other lesser developed peoples, even among their own kind. This does not mean they have anything nefarious planned as far as I'm concerned. They just know how to keep us feeling safe and secure and focused on ourselves. BTW, I only make such assertions because I see UFOs down here in Provo Utah, near the mountain ranges and canyons on a nightly basis when I go out to stargaze, and yes, while they very well COULD be piloted by earth-dwelling humans, it wasn't until a possible psychic contact told me they were going to start appearing in that area that I actually started seeing them -- and yes I have taken my mom with me on occasion, and we have pointed out the same orange or blue star-like objects floating across the sky, sometimes slow, sometimes fast, at the same time, so I am not hallucinating. I just need a better night-like camera and I can start showing the world how frequently they are in the area.

Whether you believe in aliens being somewhere or aliens already being visiting.
We need to make sure these companies with plans of mining the moon or other uses change their plans a little and think of a university.
If the aliens are out there and they have been watching us I would rather they see we chose a school as our first big statement off of our planet,
If we build a mine.....They say look at these greedy creatures
or worse
If we build a military base of some sort.....They say look at these violent bastards

But if we build a school..... They say there is hope for them after all

We can make this happen. Together we are strong

reply to post by Idonthaveabeard


and its posible that life doesnt need to have earthlike conditions to live. life can come from anywhere. look up the bacteria thaat thrives on arsenic

Those of us who don't necessarily believe that the Earth is being visited by extraterrestrials by no means discount the idea of alien life, indeed it is most likely more probable than me taking my next breath.

I have no doubt that there are vast numbers of intelligent alien civilisations in our galaxy alone, I just am not convinced that they are visiting our planet.