Study: Chemotherapy can backfire and boost cancer growth

Originally posted by Sinny

So, yea, a breakthrough in extending 16 months on to the life of patients, but half are likey to die from complications.

I was not saying these are good situations to use chemo, it seems in this instance you're better off doing nothing as the situation is beyond hopeless, I was just countering your claim that chemo was 100% ineffective in those cancer types - not quite true.

reply to post by humphreysjim


Are cancerous cells ever really "killed"?

They are not something that infect the body, like a virous, they are something the body creates its self, so every body has the potential to create its own cancerous cells, when ever it wants.

There was an awesome thread on it before, anyone remember it?

Ther questions we should be asking are, why would the body attack its self? Theres a theory that if your body had all it required, cancer would never come, as its unnatural, the theory goes on to say, its unnatural things we contact, consume, that make the body press "self destruct".

Like China have a much lower rate of cancer than in the western world, simply because they have a healthier life style.

FACT: approximately 2% of all cancers respond to chemotherapy.
FACT: Chemotherapy as commonly prescribed hurts more than it help.

The success rate of chemotherapy = 2.1% … huh??


Sad actually.

Originally posted by Sinny

Are cancerous cells ever really "killed"?

They are not something that infect the body, like a virous, they are something the body creates its self, so everybody has the potential to create its own cancerous cells, when ever it wants.

There was an awesome thread on it before, anyone remember it?

My admittedly layman knowledge is that cancer cells can be destroyed. That's what radiation does, but it also kills healthy cells causing harm.

While more cancer cells may be created, the initial cells can be destroyed. I may be wrong.

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Originally posted by Sinny

Are cancerous cells ever really "killed"?

They are not something that infect the body, like a virous, they are something the body creates its self, so everybody has the potential to create its own cancerous cells, when ever it wants.

There was an awesome thread on it before, anyone remember it?

My admittedly layman knowledge is that cancer cells can be destroyed. That's what radiation does, but it also kills healthy cells causing harm.

While more cancer cells may be created, the initial cells can be destroyed. I may be wrong.

No, that pretty much sums it up.

reply to post by humphreysjim


.................

ok first off, apart from tom having cancer he was in incredibly fit shape physically and mentally...
he started the 'experimental' drug and chemo 2 weeks into his last 6 weeks, from that first week of drugs and chemo, he disappeared... he lost a huge amount of weight, had no will to live, nothing.

he said that it felt like the doctors were trying to kill him... but he knew they weren't. it was their methods that were.
he wanted to stop the treatments, regain his weight and enjoy life and carry on till whenever death saw fit to take him...

however... pressure from his mother got the better of him - she used the guilt card...i.e. 'oh how can you leave me alone, how will i cope' etc etc.....

so he stayed in hospital and wilted away till he took his last breath....

also i have seen multiple cases where doctors have prescribed patients a deadline, and then the patients have shot that deadline into oblivion.

my cousin has cerebral palsy and is bound to a wheelchair... when she was 7, the doctors said she wouldnt make it to the age of 11.... she is now 26 and lives a fantastic life... she also has many disabled friends who went through the same thing... although none of them had been told by their parents or doctors that they wouldnt make it to a certain age.... maybe thats why they're still alive...??

i think a lot has to do with the state of mind of a person... but you will just poo poo that.... so whatever man, i just wanted to put this thread up to let peeps know that chemo IMHO isnt the best way forward for treating cancer.... but again that mine own opinion, im not forcing it on anyone....

Originally posted by fluff007

ok first off, apart from tom having cancer he was in incredibly fit shape physically and mentally...
he started the 'experimental' drug and chemo 2 weeks into his last 6 weeks, from that first week of drugs and chemo, he disappeared... he lost a huge amount of weight, had no will to live, nothing.

i think a lot has to do with the state of mind of a person... but you will just poo poo that.... so whatever man, i just wanted to put this thread up to let peeps know that chemo IMHO isnt the best way forward for treating cancer.... but again that mine own opinion, im not forcing it on anyone....

That's fine, you're welcome to your opinion.

My only comments would be that losing weight and losing the will to live are also what happens when cancer spreads and destroys someone's body.

I have no issue with the thread, it's good to know the facts whatever side on the fence you're on.

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Originally posted by Sinny

I watched a documentary some time last year that stated Chemo had a ridiclously low success rate, like 9

Totally depends on the cancer, stage etc.

The problem is, there is nothing better, and it is better than nothing. Note the study said "chemotherapy can backfire", not that it always does, this doesn't really tell us anything especially new or surprising. It is certainly not proof we should stop using it.

Altenatives prob won't work......

But if your telling me that my best option is to Poison myself , when I wasn't already poisoned, in order to cure myself, is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Those who it worked for ...there is a good chance they could have survived anyways.

And those who didn't use chemo and died, there is a good chance that they would have anyways.


Poison will never be the answer. It's like fools gold.

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85

Altenatives prob won't work......

But if your telling me that my best option is to Poison myself , when I wasn't already poisoned, in order to cure myself, is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Lots of medicines are poisons, whether you support chemo or not the concept is quite sound.

For example, if you wanted to cure yourself of a parasite, one method is to use something that is poisonous to the parasite, but not harmful enough to the much larger human to do any real damage. Chemo does do damage, but the idea is to destroy the cancer before you destroy the host.

In a situation as grave as cancer, it can be the best approach. You make the concept seem idiotic, but it isn't - it's quite simple and logical.

reply to post by humphreysjim

My only comments would be that losing weight and losing the will to live are also what happens when cancer spreads and destroys someone's body.

yes i am aware that this happens... however, he deteriorated quickly and he was a strong lad.
the majority of his friends agree that if he had passed on the drugs and chemo, that he would have been happy to live out the rest of his life (however long that may have been) surrounded by friends, family & love... not stuck in a hospital bed crippled by a treatment that is meant to help.....

reply to post by humphreysjim

I am not touting chemo as a "cure" anyway, but the quacks are very quick to tout cannabis as a "cure" along with all other manner of nonsense.

im sorry im gonna have to pull you up on this one... i dont know if you're referring to me and other posters as 'quacks' but i dont think any of us have said cannabis is a cure................

but it obviously does something, didnt you look at the link....??

Boy, two, with brain cancer is 'cured' after secretly being fed medical marijuana by his father.

note the word cured is in inverted commas....

A desperate father whose son was suffering from a life-threatening brain tumour has revealed he gave him cannabis oil to ease his pain. And he has now apparently made a full recovery.

the boy has been declared cancer free... but, whether the cancer will come back again we dont know... however, it clearly had a massive effect on this wee boy. and clearly saved his life.... i am sceptical as to whether it truly 'cured' him, but when you get cases like this, surely putting some funding into researching something like this could be a positive thing.... and you never know maybe a cure could come out of it....

The trouble with citing isolated cases is that you rarely, if ever, get the full story of exactly what went on. What you have is desperate people trying desperate things, and then the person survives or improves, and the cause is then identified as being one of the things the person did, which is never actually proved, and quite often it turns out they were given conventional medicine at the same time.

Spontaneous remissions are possible anyway, so even if we had all the facts of this case accurately reported (highly unlikely), you're still only left with a tentative link between the cannabis and the recovery.

Don't you ever wonder why there are thousands of touted "cures" all over the internet, and yet cancer is still killing people without mercy, even those who are supposedly "informed".

There is just now an artefact landing mars!

Why is not nothing into a cancer cell to kill them yet?
What realy cancer is?

Snc.

reply to post by fluff007


You have done nothing but a great dis-service to those that have cancer desperately looking for a cure and those that survived cancer. Chemo is no panacea and it is not sold as one. It is just the best tool we have at our disposal for various types of cancer. Cancer treatment has come so far in the 58 years I have been treating it. When I started only 20% of my patients survived. When I retired in 2009 over 85% of my patient's survived. I am sorry for the loss of your friend. The chances of survival are better with early detection. The more time the cancer has to advance the more difficult it becomes for a favorable outcome.

To post that all chemo is making cancer worse or is causing cancer is no different than the methods used by Washington DC to scare people. You should be ashamed of yourself. An old saying "there are no atheists in a fox hole” well cancer patients are in a fox hole looking for anything to save them. Chemo is a positive tool with major side effects. The only problem is it’s the only tool we have at this time. If you want to be of service become a scientist and find us a cure. If not shut up!!

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Originally posted by Sinny

I watched a documentary some time last year that stated Chemo had a ridiclously low success rate, like 9

Totally depends on the cancer, stage etc.

The problem is, there is nothing better, and it is better than nothing. Note the study said "chemotherapy can backfire", not that it always does, this doesn't really tell us anything especially new or surprising. It is certainly not proof we should stop using it.

Tell that to this guy: www.burzynskiclinic.com...
He only treated people who was given no chance by traditional health care and was given a death sentence. A large part of this group actually survived and still lives today even decades later.
You should really watch the burzynski documentary where you have testimonials from survivors.
It also shows how the system has constantly been attacking and trying to sabotage his treatment simply because it is non patentable which means there is no real money to be made from it.

reply to post by fluff007


that has been known for years.it is common knowledge.ask any oncologist.


this study is just confirmation.

chemo is a scam.always has been.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by humphreysjim

 

Noy you "trust me" literally, its a figure of speach.

And my point exactly, Chemo is a death sentence, the *majority* of the time.

Untreated cancer is a death sentence even more of the majority of the time, though, on average.

Also, chemo is not a death sentence in some cancers, it is situation specific. It can work very well in certain cancers. From the nonsense I see touted on this board, "uneducated" is actually closer to the truth than "internet quack site educated", as seems to be the norm in certain places where people think you can beat cancer with things like juicing, or baking soda.

edit on 6-8-2012 by humphreysjim because: (no reason given)

9% success rate is laughable. you could reach 9% with placebo or no treatment at all, yet you're touting it's 9% and claiming we are uneducated. that's made me chuckle quite a bit.

9% figure has been massaged to look good.more like 3%....

in any case loads of people are told they have cancer when they don't.then they get chemo which gives them cancer!

the false positive rate is very high

chemo is not a perfect option, and not even a great option, but none the less it is a option that works.
not all the time and not for everything, but it buy's you some time that you may not have otherwise.

this is coming from someone who is going to have the treatment in about 3-4 weeks, as soon as i get my weight up enough that the doc feels comfe. The side effects are brutal, and its going to be a long and painful 6 week treatment.

For those saying it cuts your life short, well i'm already on a time limit, so my hope for outcome is to extend that time limit a bit so i can enjoy more time with the kids and wife.

I dont blindly put faith in the medical system, nor do i any system, but when faced with the real odds, treatment makes sense.

Say what you want about it, i know of many where it extended their life, some by quite a bit. I am not looking for a 'cure' because for my situation there is no such thing as a cure, i am however hoping to put my disease in check and knock it down for a bit and allow my body time to recover from the damage the disease has already done.

Each to their own, you can say what you want, but until you are face to face with the facts and staring your mortality in the face, you really cant say what you will do. There are no easy choices that is for sure.

I am not looking forward to this in any way what so ever, but the odds dictate that its the best option for me at this stage.

btw 9% is better than 0%

What my Doctors have told me is that cancer is a very individual thing. Even those who have the same kind of cancer and are recieving the same treatment may react differently.

Stop with all the doom and gloom. For one thing you are scaring the hell out of people yet to be diagnosed and those who are currently on chemo. You may convince them not to take chemo when it could save their lives. There have been people who have lived for twenty years and more after recieving chemo and things have come a long way since then.

I have kicked an agressive cancer in the butt and am still recieving chemo as a precautionery thing. Will it ever return? It could. It may not.

People have a lot of misconceptions about cancer and will tell you you have to eat healthy and exercise etc. What you don't realize is that there are thousands of people who ate a healthy diet, exercised etc. and still got cancer. Some people will get cancer no matter what, some will not.

I was like many of you who always said if I ever get cancer I will go the natural way. It's funny that when it's actually staring you in the face how you think twice. I have studied herbs for years. people think that because it is an herb, it is completely safe. Some herbs can be dangerous.

A lot of people do not trust their doctors and I went through years of that myself when I was younger, but am now in the hnads of some of the most amazing and compassionate doctors. They don't just look after your health, but your emotional well being as well. There are doctors who actually care about their patients and it'snot just about the almighty buck.

Please, if you or a loved one have cancer, it is not always a death sentence. Chemo does not always equal death.

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver

Radiation and chemotherapy saved my life. 25 years ago. Cancer free since.