Surviving is one thing, but rescueing is another

How do you feel about bums?

Don't you think they need to be rescued?

Do you have what it takes to rescue somebody from having been put to live out on the streets?

Now just how would you go about rescueing a bum?

my own father doesnt have the compassion to rescue his son. when his son was feeling depressed and trying to figure some life things out he just cut him off completely and drove away in his new mercedes hybrid. only later to respond by email saying get a job or be homeless.

reply to post by WarJohn


I'm an Alcoholic and I was very close to being on the streets ! I've been sober for almost 5 years and this year I am chairing an event that runs for 24 hours on Christmas and new years . It's for homeless alcoholics and alcoholics with no family or place to go during the holidays . This is my 4th year being involved with this event and I've come to realize that you have to define what their reason is for being on the streets ? , alcohol drugs mental illness , youths running away with no place to turn to ? I think treating them like a fellow human being ang getting to know there situation is a good start !

reply to post by WarJohn


You talking about in these times or after a terrible SHTF scenario?

Right now I don't try to "rescue" anybody. If somebody needs help then I will try to help them out the best I can.
If your talking about after a scenario then I may or may not try to help at all. It would depend on whether they had any needed skills to bring to my group. Whether your a "bum" or the previous CEO of the worlds largest company it's all the same.
Do you have skills that will benefit the group?
If so, welcome.
If not, keep walking and turn look back.

homeless? to be without burden and free to roam and help others at will? I feel if we all were homeless and post-conventionalists the world would be in a better state...

But, no! Get a job... spend your hours, your life, for a handful of dimes... die for yourself, that is our reality, right? Let those who must fall to the waist side and let them contemplate suicide while I reap the rewards of corporatism and a good, obedient slave.

My parents met through a path of money, without money it was not possible for them meeting and having me... therefore the hands of my creator are dollar bills and I will serve my creator wholeheartedly.

Why would you "save" a bum. Many bums are happy and have left the high stress society and are living the life they want to lead. Just out of curiosity, what would you be saving them from? And after TSHTF, anyone in dirty rags and hungry would be considered a bum.

reply to post by WarJohn


Very good Topic. I give you two thumbs up...

I live in an area with very high homeless rate. I think you have to distinguish homeless into several groups. (although there may be more subgroups).

1. Those who got there themselves (due to drugs, laziness, etc...) The ones who do not want to work or cannot hold down a steady job.

2. Those who got there because of some kind of problem they have no control over like health issues, mental illness.. Etc. These are often the type who refuse help because of some type of distrust.

3. Those who know the system, know how to beg, and can make much more than in any regular job with much less effort. I personally have seen beggars leave their corner and walk to a mercedes, lexus or other vehicle that is much nicer than most and drive off....

Originally posted by Gridrebel
Why would you "save" a bum. Many bums are happy and have left the high stress society and are living the life they want to lead. Just out of curiosity, what would you be saving them from? And after TSHTF, anyone in dirty rags and hungry would be considered a bum.

There are many programs out there for those bums who want to be saved. I may be wrong but most are there by choice or because of a mental illness that prevents them from getting help. I do not believe you can force those with mental illness to get help. You could lock them up and "fix" them but the "fixing" probably would not last.

After TSHTF well we will all probably be homeless for a little bit. But those of us who are hard workers will continue to work hard and rebuild our homes. It might be harder or it might be easier. It depends on exactly what kind of s#i# hits....

Originally posted by mwood
reply to post by WarJohn

 

You talking about in these times or after a terrible SHTF scenario?

Right now I don't try to "rescue" anybody. If somebody needs help then I will try to help them out the best I can.
If your talking about after a scenario then I may or may not try to help at all. It would depend on whether they had any needed skills to bring to my group. Whether your a "bum" or the previous CEO of the worlds largest company it's all the same.
Do you have skills that will benefit the group?
If so, welcome.
If not, keep walking and turn look back.

edit on 5-8-2012 by mwood because: (no reason given)

The problem with your reasoning is you will not necessarily know what skills will be required until they are needed. As long as the person is willing to work and learn (not just someone who will sit on their but all day wasting limited resources) then they are welcome with me.

I actually quit calling them bums many years ago after I got to know (and like) several of them. I call them street people. They all had food and shelter available to them but chose not to take advantage of it for one reason or another. Most because of mental illness. They also received their monthly allotment from the SSD which they could spend however they wanted. Many of them aren't as bad off as some perceive. But in a SHTF scenario, it would be hard to tell a longtime bum from a "recent" victim.

Remember this: you cannot "rescue" someone who doesn't want to be.

Offer resources, offer support, provide an opportunity, but in the end - it's the person who will or will not "rescue" him/herself.

I agree there are so many private and city funded programs now that there is no real excuse for being homeless these days unless you choose to be so. Being an alcoholic is not an excuse for being homeless nor is it a disease, CANCER is a disease and can't choose to just get better one day so you can tell everyone you are in recovery.

reply to post by Superhans


You should check your facts ! Alcoholism is a disease , you never recover from alcoholism you have to learn to live without alcohol . Just like a diabetic has to be vigilant about his sugar levels and there's always a chance that a cancer survivor may get cancer again if not monitored ! I know first hand , I've been sober for 4 and a half years and have helped a lot of Alcoholics along the way .

Originally posted by rick004
reply to post by Superhans

 

You should check your facts ! Alcoholism is a disease , you never recover from alcoholism you have to learn to live without alcohol . Just like a diabetic has to be vigilant about his sugar levels and there's always a chance that a cancer survivor may get cancer again if not monitored ! I know first hand , I've been sober for 4 and a half years and have helped a lot of Alcoholics along the way .

No-you should check your facts-there is the difference, diabetes and cancer can both show up on objective tests. "Alcoholisim" is a made up disorder where a person chooses to drink too much too often, or according to some 12 steppers those that drink ever. And you are wrong about cancer if it comes back it comes back, monitoring it does not effect it coming back or not. Just like the world does not dissappear everytime you close your eyes. A person with diabetes has exactly that they cannot simply choose to not suffer from the effects of diabetes just like a person with cancer cannot just wake up one day and say "God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change,courage to change the things we can,and wisdom to know the difference.-Im not going to have a tumor today"

reply to post by Superhans


I may be wrong but You sound like many I have come across over the years who had a bad experience with AA or similar 12 step program . For myself I didn't have a choice I couldn't stop drinking without help . I came very close to death , normally I weigh about 195 pounds and I'm 5 foot 10 inches tall , when I was taken into detox almost 5 years ago I weighed 145 pounds, was jaundiced from my liver shutting down and was having seizures . My family and friends avoided me , they didn't want to see me killing myself , I was 3 months late on my rent , credit cards maxed , and my employer was in the process of having me terminated . I was very close to being on the streets , actually I don't think I had that much time left if a hadent stopped drinking . It's definitely not the life I "chose " .

It depends on why they are in that situation. A rare number of them choose to be, and in many cultures those people are highly respected rather than ignored and seen like animals.

If on the other hand, it's one of the more common reasons to be homeless in America, such as drug problems or just plain bad luck, of course they need help. I try to at least give a couple dollars to people rather than hurry past like many people do. On a couple occasions me and my girlfriend bought a bunch of stuff off of the dollar menu at Mcdonalds and handed it out to homeless people as well.

reply to post by rick004


I know plenty of people that were alcoholics, and some of them now drink occasionally and responsibly. The whole "all or nothing" idea of alcoholism is complete garbage.

Originally posted by rick004
reply to post by Superhans

 

It's definitely not the life I "chose " .

It is exactly the life you chose, nobody makes people drink to the point of death. It is a decision just like how now you choose not to drink. AA "works" for some people because it assigns personal responsibility onto other things besides themselves. "Its not your fault, you have a disease that you are helpless against. But we will help you so long as you come back to us for the rest of your life." People will belive in almost anything so long as it assings responsibility on others-because it is easy. So if you like to dirnk-you have a disease, if bad things happen- its god's plan, you feel worthless-its because your parents were mean to you. These excuses come in all different flavors but the root of all of them is that they assign personal responsibility onto others.
Take a criminal for example, he may rob a bank but when he gets caught and thrown in jail he can scream about how this is not the life he wanted- but it is! Responsibility is not just being accountable for the action but all of the consequences of that action.

reply to post by Bodhi7


I believe that they may have been very hard drinkers but not alcoholic . I can honestly say that I tried so many times to only have a few drinks , I made promises to my family and friends to try and drink moderately but I never could . After a few drinks I had no control whatsoever .

I've met a few with that mentality and trust me, many don't want to be rescued. What happen is this. You rescue them. You give them a place to stay, food, money, etc and a high procentage will relaps. They'll just take off and go back to the mean streets. Don't ask me why. Maybe just what they're familiar with or something but, I like I said I've seen it in real life. Those that don't have that mentality find a way to get off the streets on there own with little to no help from anyone.