Vast international child-porn network uncovered

The feds already know exactly where there's CP on the internet and they know very well where it's "hidden" when people think it's hidden. I don't think the feds care about CP unless they are ready to make a case about it. Rather, networks hosting (whether permanent or temporary) CP tends to be filled with other illegal activities. I think it's those activities that they are more interested in.

Politically CP can be a great tool to regulate the internet, so there needs to be an abundance of it to claim that it's out of control. I wish CP didn't exist but I would rather know that CP exists than our freedom taken away while living in a false-reality world, pretending that CP doesn't exist.

If anything, has anyone done research to see whether or not CP keeps predators at bay and are they the same as predators? If CP is like a security barrier that protects even more children, then perhaps it's best if there is some for those sick minded people? and yes I know what I'm saying is controversial but I'm not the type that is PC.

They should really track those that publishes CP before tracking those that download it because the immediate danger is to the children that may be violated and traumatized from it. The secondary priority should be to shut down networks that allow CP to be freely distributed. I know you can't prevent trolls, but if you don't moderate it and just let it be, then there's a problem. I was about to write the third priority to be allowing the feds to scan the internet for people seeking for this material, but that can just open up holes for the feds to track your movements, even if innocent and secretly infiltrate your computer(s) for CP or other reasons. So the third one is a little tricky but probably best to leave out since a certain group of officials may create loopholes and abuse its power.

So how do you protect children? I don't know. But with 1 and 2, you might do well, or you just keep the CP networks open and find and prosecute those that upload CP, like if it's a trap.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Taupin Desciple

 

The everybody's right to a fair trial is one of the cornerstones of democracy and should always be protected.

What you are presenting is a strawman argument that has no place in this discussion.

edit on 4-8-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

I'm not misrepresenting your position. I'm stating mine in an articulate manner that happens to be in opposition of yours. That's not a straw man argument. That's stating my opinion and it belongs in this discussion as much as yours does whether you agree with it or not.

If you don't agree with my opinion, that's your perogative. But you don't have to say it holds no place in this discussion. Simply state yours in a manner that will sway my opinion. And I wish you luck with that by the way.

Disclaimers out of the way, a cornerstone of Democracy should only be protected when it works. The legal system is antiquated and needs to be revised or just flat out done away with. Tell me it works when you have convicted rapists and murderers, convicted by the same system that you're defending, walking free among those who don't rape and murder.

These aren't fallacies or rhetoric I'm tossing about either. These are facts of life that do more harm than good to our society. If I have any personal feelings towards this subject, then those personal feelings are based on fact. Not my assumption that we should keep a part of our constitution simply because it's a part of our constitution. If I got gonorrhea in one of my arms rendering it useless, why would I want to keep it? Because I'm "attached" to it? If something doesn't work anymore and puts everything else that is relevant to it at risk, then you get rid of it for the sake of the well being of everything else.

Without stating that we should keep something for the sake of it, please tell me why we should keep a system in place that let's these sick and dangerous individuals walk free.

As i said your strawman arguments have no place in this discussion. Please start up your own thread if you want to try to argue your reasons for removing the most basic parts of democracy.

In the mean time as you continue to try to use this line of reasoning (distorted logic) there is no point in continuing the discussion with you.

please refere to this video if you need further clarification www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
As i said your strawman arguments have no place in this discussion. Please start up your own thread if you want to try to argue your reasons for removing the most basic parts of democracy.

In the mean time as you continue to try to use this line of reasoning there is no point in continuing the discussion with you

Fine. Have it your way..........OP. This is your thread on your website so you have every right to dictate who comes and goes and how they say the things as they're doing it.

And for your last sentence?.......................Finally........we agree on something.

In closing, Interpol isn't an American agency. Think on that one.

please refer to this video if you need further clarification

youtu.be...

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


People like you should move to north korea or something, where fair trials are not the norm........ Suggesting we remove the cornerstone of our justice system is disgusting.

i do not think that imprisoning, or killing people that commit these kinds of acts and worse, is going to help solve these problems. i do not condone these acts in any way just as i do not condone any use of force on another, weather it be physical or psychological, but if we are to stop these things from happening, we must first get to the root of the problem.

the article goes into great detail about the horrific crime and how they cleverly caught the offenders and ends on a fearful note of the possibility of there being countless more offenders out there. your typical main stream media news article. there is one sentence that mentions one of the offenders was himself abused as a child. for this i commend them because this is a part of the problem.

i believe "the worse" the crime a person commits, "the worse", if not "worser", the crime has been committed to the person who commits it. what these people really require is love, care, understanding, and yes, forgiveness. "those who are hardest to love usually are the ones that need it the most." but of course no one is willing to give anything to such offenders. so the "easiest" so-called solution would be to imprison these people for life, but it will not solve the problem and will obviously not help the offender, anyone who has spent any time in prison should understand this. and killing them may put them out of their misery and "rid the earth of another vile criminal" but will only degrade the soul of humanity even further. so prison time and therapy may sound better, but a lot would depend on the quality of the therapy.

also what of all the victims? of course they too will require more care, love and understanding than ever before, so that they do not repeat the same crime as their offenders, and therapy on top of that. they too will need to understand why this happened to them and that punishing and killing people does not solve problems.

i feel we all know the solutions to all our problems, it is just that very few people are willing to do what is necessary to solve them. i believe what is holding us back is fear and that the only way to conquer fear is through love.

with news articles that report on such horrors, you would hope that they would educate the reader on more than just disturbing details and at least end on a positive note with even just a glimmer of hope, but i guess then main stream media would not be doing their job. and god forbid if anyone ever learned anything valuable from a news article. but thanks to this article and others like these, they have taught me that they can not be trusted, to question more and to not take everything as it is presented, and for that, ending on a positive note, i am grateful.

peace & much love to you all.

Originally posted by Sinny
And it spreads much further than that..

Sigh.

ATS won't allow postings of such subject matter because they like to keep the site family friendly

edit on 4-8-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

This is a documentary about a child sex abuse ring in government which went up to the highest levels you can imagine. This program was scheduled to air on the Discovery Channel. Influential members of congress applied pressure to the cable industry to stop the airing of the program

Originally posted by OhZone
reply to post by Lysis

 

People who get turned on by children should all be executed.

This could be a positive in the population reduction scheme.
No fancy virus or other deadly disease with costly treatments.
Just a well placed bullet to the head.

That is actually a very bad idea....If I might note. I'm not sure if you meant it seriously or not.

Now before I get my hide cooked, let me say I actually thought the Texas story of the baby raper getting killed on the spot was rather refreshing and only sad because the child was apparently present to see it. It's not the outcome I mind at all.

What does come to mind though is this. If it's death for molesting a child, and it's death for raping a child....and it's death for outright killing a child.....why does Chester The Molester leave victims alive? I recall this debate in California when I was growing up and the point made then seems to hold as true now..... Rather, make THIS crime one that specifically EXCLUDES the use of Segregation from the prison population. Then Jessica's Law 25-Life works much better, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Rather, make THIS crime one that specifically EXCLUDES the use of Segregation from the prison population. Then Jessica's Law 25-Life works much better, doesn't it?

Yes and no.

The "eye for an eye" justice is being served, but the taxpayers are still paying to feed and house him. Money is tight these days, seniors have to choose between medicine or food and the country is, what, 16 trillion dollars in debt?

I see no purpose being served by keeping them alive because everyone knows at this point that those people are incapable of being rehabilitated. They'll tell you themselves when they have those rare moments of clarity.

I see your point, but it's simply not good enough. I'm sure that a victim of child rape's initial reaction would be the same as yours. An eye for an eye. But at the end of the day, they just want the pain from the whole experience to go away, and picturing their molester being molested won't do the trick. The only real consolation they can get is knowing their attacker will never walk the streets again to do to someone else what they did to them.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple

Well, the point I was trying to make was that it;s not about eye for an eye,. It's about a choice.

#1. A child dealing with rape, incest or molestation for life...but getting on with life.

#2. A murdered child with signs of sexual abuse prior to death.

If we execute baby rapers and molesters, they have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to GAIN.....by simply killing the kids whenever possible. The molester is going to die either way, when caught, right? No motivation to even try being decent and I don't believe they have much left, if any to start with. So..Not worth it is whether you could see ONE dead kid who didn't HAVE to be..because some animal figured it was a freebee.

The abuse they'd take in prison is irrelevant to me. I don't care if they become the yard woman to the masses or they learn to live with everyone and it goes well. I don't want them in segregation because the monsters don't deserve the private room and prima donna attention. Let'em suffer with everyone else, LIKE everyone else and for 25 years to life. Just like Jessica's Law stipulates where it has been passed.

Originally posted by RockLobster
What gets me is the fact that the police actually look through this stuff , shouldnt THAT officer be arrested for looking at child porn ?

Same as when killers are put to death , shouldnt the dude that kills the killer , be put to death too ?

Or when........... i`ll be quiet now

no- I don't equate the lawful execution of a child killer, after due legal process, as the same as some deviant scum verminous trash who kills a kid- if I though that my moral compass would have been smashed to pieces

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I understand your point and I agree.

But I'm coming at this from the perspective that child molestation is a cycle. I don't know what the exact numbers are, but many victims of molestation grow up and do the same thing to other children. Many people think " But since they do it because it was done to them, we should give them a break". I don't feel that way and that rubs people the wrong way because I come across as callous and unfeeling. I'd rather be callous and unfeeling towards those monsters than towards the children by wanting to give the monsters a break. And to me, giving them a break means keeping them alive. besides which, of all people who would know the effects of raping a child has on the child, it would be them. And that, IMO, makes their crimes even more f-ed up.

We both feel the same way in that we don't care about these people after they get caught. What I care about is stopping the cycle and, in my opinion, stopping the cycle means eradicating the ones who perpetuate it. In my opinion, you either want the problem to end or you don't. And ending the problem means taking what, I gather, is a rather drastic approach in ending the ones who keep the cycle alive.

Giving them a free ride, to me, means keeping them alive because whether or not they're in the general population, they still have access to means of communication to the outside world, giving them opportunities to share their twisted views to other people. That has to stop.

My theory on this may take a generation or two to see the full light of day, but you can't argue with the fact that if you eradicate the people who do this, then you will have no more people who do this. If you take out one generation of 100 molesters who committed that crime against 100 children you're cutting off one leg of the problem. Out of those 100 victims, it's been proven that a certain number of those will grow up to do the same thing. If that number is 50 criminals (victims from the generation of 100 that got eradicated) commiting the crime against 50 children, the numbers are already going down. It's just a matter of time before you won't have any left at all. Simple mathematics dictates that.

Problem solved.

People have a hard time wrapping their heads around this for two main reasons: It's not politically correct and it takes time. People in this day and age want to see results fast and they want those results to be pleasant to deal with. This problem doesn't have any quick fixes, the fixes are ugly and people need to come to grips with that if they don't want to see children suffer anymore. I wish the fixes could come quick for the sake of the children, but they don't . People need to keep their emotions and fragile sensibilities out of it because applying those personal traits to a problem such as this isn't working. It isn't working because the problem still persists and I don't see the numbers of crimes or perpetrators going down either.

Some people say I need to live North Korea because of my stance on this. Because I feel that the cornerstone of American Democracy, due process, needs to be thrown out the window when it comes to this. My stance doesn't politicize this problem nor does it recognize the borders of nations. Why? Because this isn't a political problem and it's worldwide. That's why Interpol was involved. Chances are very good that the picture of the stuffed animal that had Dutch origins may have been taken in Holland, but it was widely distributed from America
and involved a child from Australia. Get my point?

People can throw the American flag in my face all they want. Ask the child victims what country they're in. They may know the name but they don't know the implications. They don't care. They're hurt, scared .......................and wondering why the bad man isn't dead yet.
........................And so am I.

Yet I'M the one callous and unfeeling.

Originally posted by MagicWand67

Originally posted by Sinny
And it spreads much further than that..

Sigh.

ATS won't allow postings of such subject matter because they like to keep the site family friendly

edit on 4-8-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

This is a documentary about a child sex abuse ring in government which went up to the highest levels you can imagine. This program was scheduled to air on the Discovery Channel. Influential members of congress applied pressure to the cable industry to stop the airing of the program

I made a thread on it a few months back, ATS closed it to "keep the site family friendly"



Senator John Decamp, uncovering an elite peado ring in Nebraska, involking senator Larry King.

Vile stuff.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple


Too many to count, I'm sure.

Two things: There should be no trial for pedophiles. Make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt and by all means necessary that they did what they're accused of, then shoot them on site. Period.

Wait a minute... You don't want a trial for pedophiles, but you still want a way to determine whether or not they suspect is guilty? You're suggesting replacing a trial with.... a trial....

So do you want a trial or not?

I am not for removing some ones right to a trial, no matter what... Because as you allude to, sometimes innocent people can be accused. I would hate to see that happen.... How about you?


That said, I am glad to see this child porn network being uncovered. Hopefully this saves the lives of some children.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple

Well, I took the time to read everything there and I believe I may have been coming into the discussion with you from a misunderstanding. You're not talking about simply using the Death Penalty as a change of sentence in the same on going and seemingly endless processing of perverts through the courts, are you?

If I'm understanding you right, you are talking about a fundamental change across the board for how baby rapers are thought about. If I get you at this point, you're talking about a deliberate, concerted and ongoing effort to hunt these animals down, confirm what they are, then kill them. Now,before I say anything else, I want to make sure I'm getting this correct?

I'm not being the least bit judgmental by the way and my reaction may surprise you. I don't want to misunderstand though.

Originally posted by RockLobster
What gets me is the fact that the police actually look through this stuff , shouldnt THAT officer be arrested for looking at child porn ?

Erm, are you actually being serious? Police officers have to look through the images and videos to identify the victims, suspects and even missing children that have not been seen. Do you really think the police sit there and happily stare at these appalling images? Most of officers have children of their own. Have some respect - imagine if these were your children, you would want officers to do as much as they could to identify those involved.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


What these men did is disgusting, that much we can all agree on. But, as citizens of the United States, they are still entitled to a trial by jury just as every other American accused of crime has been given for 236 years. Your call to end a longstanding process for certain individuals is a danger to a free republic. If not a trial conducted by civilians, who makes the decision that they are guilty? Perhaps we should create a secret police force and have them haul people away into nothingness the way they do it in 1984?

I urge you to re-think your kneejerk reactions and consider the consequences that could some day face all of us if we allow "certain individuals" to be prosecuted without trial. That is not the Rule of Law our founders had in mind.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Taupin Desciple

 

Well, I took the time to read everything there and I believe I may have been coming into the discussion with you from a misunderstanding. You're not talking about simply using the Death Penalty as a change of sentence in the same on going and seemingly endless processing of perverts through the courts, are you?

If I'm understanding you right, you are talking about a fundamental change across the board for how baby rapers are thought about. If I get you at this point, you're talking about a deliberate, concerted and ongoing effort to hunt these animals down, confirm what they are, then kill them. Now,before I say anything else, I want to make sure I'm getting this correct?

I'm not being the least bit judgmental by the way and my reaction may surprise you. I don't want to misunderstand though.

Number 1: I am not advocating illegal acts. I am advocating a change in the legal system to where the acts suggested are no longer illegal.

Number 2: You are absolutely right. that's my stance.

Remember, There are camera's everywhere, on the streets, on laptops, on cell phones, there is DNA testing capabilities on the spot and, in some cases, credible eyewitnesses on the scene. You can prove someone's innocence or guilt, 100% and emotionally unbiased, within 24 hours of the crime, at the place were the crime occurred without the need of a trial in a courtroom. Change the definition of due process to where it doesn't include such a lengthy time frame between when the crime occurred and when a trial starts. The only purpose that serves anymore is to keep the people involved in that process employed. And you know it.

With the technical capabilities our society has it's a rather backwoods approach at this point to let cases like this drag out through a process that was first thought up and through the years "perfected" long before these technical capabilities were in existence.

Again, the case in question is not solely an American one. It is international. Again, this is why Interpol was involved.

Originally posted by ForeverDusk
Perhaps we should create a secret police force and have them haul people away into nothingness the way they do it in 1984?

I urge you to re-think your kneejerk reactions and consider the consequences that could some day face all of us if we allow "certain individuals" to be prosecuted without trial. That is not the Rule of Law our founders had in mind.

We don't need to. We have the capability to dedicate a satellite on your position right now and see how many times you picked your nose as you were typing that.

Our legal system has not evolved on pace with what we can do on a technical level. That's why forensic specialists are frustrated at the fact that what they can do is stymied by the legal system. It hasn't caught up. And again, for the third time, this is NOT solely an American case. It is international.

I'm not so much suggesting that we take our constitution and burn it, but we really do need to get it up to speed. After all, I don't think it was in our founding fathers interests that the constitution they wrote would make it so difficult to keep baby rapers where they belong. Behind bars or under the dirt.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


I find it hard to believe that you seriously consider that? Really? Is there anyone in this world you would trust to be judge jury and executioner? Not me man. If that was attempted to be put into place, it will be civil war, no doubt about it.